Euron, Bloodraven and the Storm God

[LiveFirstDieLater]

I think the idea that there are only two sides to this fight is missing the mark... It isn't good verses evil or even fire against ice... There are shades of grey and earth, water and air each with their own agendas...

much like the game of thrones has many players, so to does this larger game of elements...

also I'm not convinced Bloodraven is controlling himself let alone anyone else...

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

I think the idea that there are only two sides to this fight is missing the mark... It isn't good verses evil or even fire against ice... There are shades of grey and earth, water and air each with their own agendas...

much like the game of thrones has many players, so to does this larger game of elements...

also I'm not convinced Bloodraven is controlling himself let alone anyone else...

Well, it is called A Song of Ice and Fire, not A Song of Ice and Fire and Earth and Sea an All That Stuff, isn't it?

I mean, I am also always wondering, if there are other powers along those lines or if all of them can be reduced to either fire or ice, but I don't really know at this point. However, ice and fire must somehow be more important than the rest, don't you think?

That said, I agree that it's most likely not going to be good versus evil.

What do you mean, when you say Bloodravon might not control himself? Are you a supporter of a theory of a strong hive mind?

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Well, it is called A Song of Ice and Fire, not A Song of Ice and Fire and Earth and Sea an All That Stuff, isn't it?

I mean, I am also always wondering, if there are other powers along those lines or if all of them can be reduced to either fire or ice, but I don't really know at this point. However, ice and fire must somehow be more important than the rest, don't you think?

That said, I agree that it's most likely not going to be good versus evil.

What do you mean, when you say Bloodravon might not control himself? Are you a supporter of a theory of a strong hive mind?

fire and ice seem to be the focus of the story, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other forces at play... In fact the title doesn't even have to be a direct conflict, a song of ice and fire could easily describe both war and/or conciliation.

as to the hive mind thing, I was less implying hive mind and more the way Bran takes over Hodor... There is another person in there just being controlled. The children of the Forrest are creepily like the servitors in the house of the undying, and there is that circle of children in wider wood thrones like BR under that hill we only see as Hodor/Bran. 

I guess the point is once Bloodraven melds with the tree how do we know if he is in control, or if there is someone/someones in console of him.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

fire and ice seem to be the focus of the story, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other forces at play... In fact the title doesn't even have to be a direct conflict, a song of ice and fire could easily describe both war and/or conciliation.

as to the hive mind thing, I was less implying hive mind and more the way Bran takes over Hodor... There is another person in there just being controlled. The children of the Forrest are creepily like the servitors in the house of the undying, and there is that circle of children in wider wood thrones like BR under that hill we only see as Hodor/Bran. 

I guess the point is once Bloodraven melds with the tree how do we know if he is in control, or if there is someone/someones in console of him.

Hm, I don't know. I used to think that there might be more nearly equally important powers than only ice and fire, but I guess that's changed for me. Probably Yandel convinced me by calling it "A World of Ice and Fire" in the title and in the text. I assume ice and fire are somehow defining powers shaping that world. You seem to disagree, right?

So, if you are into the hive mind theory, who might be controlling Bloodraven?

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Hm, I don't know. I used to think that there might be more nearly equally important powers than only ice and fire, but I guess that's changed for me. Probably Yandel convinced me by calling it "A World of Ice and Fire" in the title and in the text. I assume ice and fire are somehow defining powers shaping that world. You seem to disagree, right?

So, if you are into the hive mind theory, who might be controlling Bloodraven?

nearly equal is a good way of putting it... I guess what I'm thinking is that these are elements of at least comparable power, fire and ice may be in opposition, and may be the focus of this story... But it seems pretty clear that there are other powers out there, namely earth and water that have a part to play. Much like I hate the idea that characters in the story are either good or evil, I do not like the idea that there are just two gods who are diametric opposites. The great other just doesn't ring true to me, I'm more inclined to think that there are human (or almost human) motives at the bottom of this conflict. 

 

As for a Bloodraven, I'm not sure what the deal is. But I'm not convinced he's a benevolent puppet master behind the scenes... There are a few reasons for this.

First, the similarities between the children bran meets in there hollow hill and the servitors that Dany meets at the house of the undying are eerily similar. They are both led there by a "man" (coldhands and Pryat Pree) who seems like a servant or messenger and does not enter with them. Tree-centric, both locations are dominated by their own special trees, the grove of trees at the HotU and the Weirwood. Low and behold, the children and servitors both serve there guest a trippy consumable made from said special trees, and the weird descriptions of taste are very similar. At the center of The HotU is the heart room with unmoving corpse like figures seemed in thrones. When exploring as Hodor Bran comes across course like children in their Westwood thrones... I could get into how I interpret the visions in the house of the undying and how the first room is servitors all over a beautiful woman and that I believe they are the "shape of shadows" but that's a whole topic in itself. However one point worth mentioning, the vision of Pryat Pree in the house has him collapsing into a pale wormlike creature, which is oddly similar to the pale wormlike root growing out of Bloodravens Eye... The similarities and parallels go on, but I'll leave you with this, read when Bran asks Bloodraven if he is the three eyed crow, BR answers oddly as if he has no idea what Bran is talking about. 

 

At this point I just find it hard to believe the children are all innocent and benevolent up there way north of the wall... I also have entertained the idea that there could be factions among the children and that they are no more unified than mankind... The answer my friends is blowing in the Winds

[AlaskanSandman]

My opinion is that they're remnants of the religion the First Men had prior to their Pact with the Children. After all, the founding of Storm's End also involves sea and sky deities and that's hardly something associated with the Old Gods or Seven.

I like this idea and may work well into my theory as in my theory i link The Grey King to Hugor of the Hill and the Nights King among others. I link Garth the Green to Mermen though, so it'll take a little thinking. This depending largely on whether Garth predates the pact, or is a result of the pact. Im also working under the impression that there was a brother and that he and Garth fought over a woman. 

Good point.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

nearly equal is a good way of putting it... I guess what I'm thinking is that these are elements of at least comparable power, fire and ice may be in opposition, and may be the focus of this story... But it seems pretty clear that there are other powers out there, namely earth and water that have a part to play. Much like I hate the idea that characters in the story are either good or evil, I do not like the idea that there are just two gods who are diametric opposites. The great other just doesn't ring true to me, I'm more inclined to think that there are human (or almost human) motives at the bottom of this conflict. 

 

As for a Bloodraven, I'm not sure what the deal is. But I'm not convinced he's a benevolent puppet master behind the scenes... There are a few reasons for this.

First, the similarities between the children bran meets in there hollow hill and the servitors that Dany meets at the house of the undying are eerily similar. They are both led there by a "man" (coldhands and Pryat Pree) who seems like a servant or messenger and does not enter with them. Tree-centric, both locations are dominated by their own special trees, the grove of trees at the HotU and the Weirwood. Low and behold, the children and servitors both serve there guest a trippy consumable made from said special trees, and the weird descriptions of taste are very similar. At the center of The HotU is the heart room with unmoving corpse like figures seemed in thrones. When exploring as Hodor Bran comes across course like children in their Westwood thrones... I could get into how I interpret the visions in the house of the undying and how the first room is servitors all over a beautiful woman and that I believe they are the "shape of shadows" but that's a whole topic in itself. However one point worth mentioning, the vision of Pryat Pree in the house has him collapsing into a pale wormlike creature, which is oddly similar to the pale wormlike root growing out of Bloodravens Eye... The similarities and parallels go on, but I'll leave you with this, read when Bran asks Bloodraven if he is the three eyed crow, BR answers oddly as if he has no idea what Bran is talking about. 

 

At this point I just find it hard to believe the children are all innocent and benevolent up there way north of the wall... I also have entertained the idea that there could be factions among the children and that they are no more unified than mankind... The answer my friends is blowing in the Winds

I had the discussion before - AlaskanSandman will remember - about these powers. It comes down to if we believe these powers are separate from ice and fire. Maybe water is ice and the Storm God is equal to fire and all that. What's your opinion on that? Are you sure it's not reducible to only two general principles?

I like the idea of there being factions among the Children. Why wouldn't there be, I guess? I don't think Bloodraven is bad, anyway. The reader's first impression of Bloodraven is that he is an evil guy, isn't it? So he is supposed to be the evil guy that's actually a good that's really actually a bad guy? I don't know. He is obviously not perfect or anything. I think he is extremely utilitarian. It depends on our own morals if we consider that "good" or "bad", I'd say.