A slightly awkward question about maidens

[purple-eyes]

We know that it is a big deal for high born ladies to keep their maidenheads for marriages. 

But Cersei also said many girls would lose the maidenhead simply by riding horse. 

And this is indeed true. 

So can a girl claim to her husband that she never slept with a man, just really enjoyed horse riding and rode too much on the horseback?

Would her husband buy this explanation?

You know, like cases of Cersei and Arianne. 

 

 

 

[James Steller]

Well apparently the horse riding thing is true.

So I guess if the husband knew about that, he'd have enough doubt in his mind to have to either trust his bride or not.

[RoamingRonin]

Tyrion  touches on this during Joffrey and Margaery's wedding. He says Joff isn't experienced enough to tell if his new bride is a virgin or not. I think that's the same with most husbands during their wedding night. They can tell from experience if their bride is a virgin or not.

Honestly, it has to be a case-by-case thing. Some men might marry women and think they are virgins when they are not. Some men might know their bride is not truly a virgin but they accept for status or as long as she doesn't have a Gatehouse Ami reputation.

It's complicated like most things ASOAIF-related.

[purple-eyes]

Tyrion  touches on this during Joffrey and Margaery's wedding. He says Joff isn't experienced enough to tell if his new bride is a virgin or not. I think that's the same with most husbands during their wedding night. They can tell from experience if their bride is a virgin or not.

Honestly, it has to be a case-by-case thing. Some men might marry women and think they are virgins when they are not. Some men might know their bride is not truly a virgin but they accept for status or as long as she doesn't have a Gatehouse Ami reputation.

It's complicated like most things ASOAIF-related.

I think somewhere Arianne mentioned something like she can pretend to be a maid (like Myrcella) for Arys if he preferred. 

we also have the most pious and innocent-looking girl Tyene. 

So experience is not very trustful. 

Unless the husband can see the real blood (like the case of Brandon and Lady Dustin), I guess they will still harbor some doubt in their hearts?

 

 

 

[Taenqyrhae]

We know that it is a big deal for high born ladies to keep their maidenheads for marriages. 

But Cersei also said many girls would lose the maidenhead simply by riding horse. 

And this is indeed true. 

So can a girl claim to her husband that she never slept with a man, just really enjoyed horse riding and rode too much on the horseback?

Would her husband buy this explanation?

You know, like cases of Cersei and Arianne. 

 

 

 

This is a big part of the reason why equestrian activities have been popular among upper class ladies and noblewomen.  It was common knowledge that a woman who rode horses might no longer have an intact hymen, the husband would almost certainly accept that explanation.

[purple-eyes]

This is a big part of the reason why equestrian activities have been popular among upper class ladies and noblewomen.  It was common knowledge that a woman who rode horses might no longer have an intact hymen, the husband would almost certainly accept that explanation.

So they used this as a cover up for their sex life before marriage? Is this what you mean?

I always thought they did these riding things more because only rich and noble ladies can afford horses and free time (like today). 

Kind of like car driving in a poor country where many people can not afford to buy cars. 

Only rich people can afford to drive cars (then of course they will have more chances to have car accidents). 

 

[Taenqyrhae]

I think somewhere Arianne mentioned something like she can pretend to be a maid (like Myrcella) for Arys if he preferred. 

we also have the most pious and innocent-looking girl Tyene. 

So experience is not very trustful. 

Unless the husband can see the real blood (like the case of Brandon and Lady Dustin), I guess they will still harbor some doubt in their hearts?

 

 

 

There would be more than seeing the blood, if a man has had sex with non-virgins before and has sex with a woman with an intact hymen, he will definitely feel the resistance before breaking it.

But that would really be the only way to be sure the girl was a virgin (and it wouldn't rule out the possibility of anal or oral sex).  Pretending to be nervous and inexperienced would be pretty easy as most women would have memory of their first time even if it wasn't.  There's no other noticeable physical changes from sex alone - of the many women I have lain with, the one with the tightest vagina was one of the most promiscuous.  Motherhood can have an effect there, but not always - one of the most capacious women I've known had not had children yet at that point, she just had a naturally large cooter.

[purple-eyes]

There would be more than seeing the blood, if a man has had sex with non-virgins before and has sex with a woman with an intact hymen, he will definitely feel the resistance before breaking it.
But that would really be the only way to be sure the girl was a virgin (and it wouldn't rule out the possibility of anal or oral sex).  Pretending to be nervous and inexperienced would be pretty easy as most women would have memory of their first time even if it wasn't.  There's no other noticeable physical changes from sex alone - of the many women I have lain with, the one with the tightest vagina was one of the most promiscuous.  Motherhood can have an effect there, but not always - one of the most capacious women I've known had not had children yet at that point, she just had a naturally large cooter.

All right. 

Then husbands need to have enough experience before marriage to be able to "test" his bride. 

No wonder why it is so common for them for have early sex life. 

So Ned is quite lucky that Catelyn did not love horse riding that much. 

Otherwise he would have some doubt about Robb's parentage (Robb had Tully look).

Oh, and Lyanna too. She is a famous half-horse so she is quite unlikely to maintain her maiden blood. 

Was Rhaegar (Ned thought he did not frequent brothel) able to figure out if she has slept with other men before?

By all accounts he only slept with his wife Elia before. So I doubt he can. 

 

 

 

[Taenqyrhae]

All right. 

Then husbands need to have enough experience before marriage to be able to "test" his bride. 

No wonder why it is so common for them for have early sex life. 

So Ned is quite lucky that Catelyn did not love horse riding that much. 

Otherwise he would have some doubt about Robb's parentage (Robb had Tully look).

Oh, and Lyanna too. She is a famous half-horse so she is quite unlikely to maintain her maiden blood. 

Was Rhaegar (Ned thought he did not frequent brothel) able to figure out if she has slept with other men before?

By all accounts he only slept with his wife Elia before. So I doubt he can. 

 

 

 

He may have heard other men talking about deflowering virgins, even if he had never had sex he probably knew about hymens.  Even if he didn't notice the difference in feel, if she still had one he would definitely see the blood.

[purple-eyes]

He may have heard other men talking about deflowering virgins, even if he had never had sex he probably knew about hymens.  Even if he didn't notice the difference in feel, if she still had one he would definitely see the blood.

Are you talking about Ned or Rhaegar?

Our assumption is that too much horse riding will make a woman lose maiden blood on horse back.

In other words, she will probably not have visible blood in the wedding bed (the soft tissues were already broken, healed, recessed, scarred and thickened, like the reconstruction surgery, surgeons need to stitch the mucosa back together to make them combined.), only the "feel" left. Therefore, if her husband is not experienced, he may miss this "feel" so that he has no clue if she is a maid or not. 

But lucky for Ned, Cat had her maidenhead blood, so even he has no idea about the "feel", he knows Cat is a maid at the wedding (LF is a liar). 

By the way, I am pretty sure there is a big difference between hearing about the "feel" and actually knowing the "feel". 

 

 

[SeanF]

We know that it is a big deal for high born ladies to keep their maidenheads for marriages.

But Cersei also said many girls would lose the maidenhead simply by riding horse.

And this is indeed true.

So can a girl claim to her husband that she never slept with a man, just really enjoyed horse riding and rode too much on the horseback?

Would her husband buy this explanation?

You know, like cases of Cersei and Arianne.

I doubt if it would matter in Dorne. So, it wouldn't really be an issue with Arianne. In the case of Cersei, Robert was probably too drunk to notice.

[purple-eyes]

 

I doubt if it would matter in Dorne. So, it wouldn't really be an issue with Arianne. In the case of Cersei, Robert was probably too drunk to notice.

For princess Arianne it looks like it is still a bigger deal. After all she may need to marry somebody very high born, like Viserys, or maybe Edmure or Willas. 

After all Arianne mentioned something like:" do you know what my daddy did after knowing Daemon took my maidenhead? nothing. "

It implied that Doran should have done something for this, like punish her or Daemon. 

 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

There is no 100% way to tell with what they have.  However, while the husband is easy to fool, inspection by older, experienced women who have been inspecting thousands of vaginas would have more credibility.  Think of the virgin inspections before the annual Uhmlanga ceremony in modern day Swaziland.  The girls must present themselves for inspection for the right to dance before their king.