Azor Ahai a Dayne?

[Falcon2908]

So the brother of the Amethyst Empress had cast her down and became emperor and ushered in the Long Night. He is known as the Bloodstone Emperor

Amethyts, Opal, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, etc Emperors are named so due to the colour of their eyes.

The Great Empire of Dawn had colonies in Westeros, notably the base of Hightower. It was most probably overseen by the relatives of the Amethyst Emperor , i.e. the Daynes. (Daynes had purple eyes). Starfall is pretty close to Hightower.

Since the brother of the Amethyst Empress is related to her, then he should be having purple eyes as well. So he has purple eyes like the Daynes. So this means that the Amethyst Empress and the Blood Stone Emperor are Daynes. If the Blood stone emperor is indeed Azor Ahai, then that means he was a Dayne!

It would be pretty cool, if the Bloodstone emperor had wielded Dawn lol.

[Dolorous22]

I watched a video last night of Elio talking about Dayne and the possibility that the sword Dawn could be the original light-bringer.

There are a lot of comparisons to be made but as with most prophecy, it's too vague to piece together any real substantial theory imo. Instead I've arrived at the decision that the actual sword is kind of meaningless like most swords. In the WoIaF book, there's reports of very skilled smiths North of the Rhoynar who can forge all kinds of wonderful weapons. I imagine that most prolific swords in Westeros are basically fancy imports rare to the mainland. There could be fifty swords in Essos made from the exact same materials as Dawn in some keep just lying around with other stuff. 

Imagine the first samurai sword to wind up in Europe. Or when the Native Americans found out what muskets were. It would of been all to easy to suggest that these were some kind of super weapons with supernatural properties. 
 

[LmL]

Falcon, have you read my theory about that? I think you're right, to say the least. I'm actually going to be guest appearing on History of Westeros later this month to talk about that. I definitely think it's a thing, although it seems like there were two swords - black sword with red fire, and a white sword with pale fire, and that they clashed. I don't think Dawn belong to AA - I've pegged AA as the bad guy (the Bloodstone Emperor) with the red fire black sword, and some Westerosi champion as the one with Dawn. Alternatively, Dawn might trace back to the swords of pale fire wielded by the ghosts in Dany's "wake the dragon" dream in book one. There's a couple really interesting possibilities. 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Lightbringer = Ice = Dawn.

[Durran Durrandon]

Falcon, have you read my theory about that? I think you're right, to say the least. I'm actually going to be guest appearing on History of Westeros later this month to talk about that. I definitely think it's a thing, although it seems like there were two swords - black sword with red fire, and a white sword with pale fire, and that they clashed. I don't think Dawn belong to AA - I've pegged AA as the bad guy (the Bloodstone Emperor) with the red fire black sword, and some Westerosi champion as the one with Dawn. Alternatively, Dawn might trace back to the swords of pale fire wielded by the ghosts in Dany's "wake the dragon" dream in book one. There's a couple really interesting possibilities. 

Just a note on this, as I don't really have a solid head canon on the swords, the word pale is used to describe the color of flame that is otherwise presumably red, like the burning of the Seven scene. I don't know that pale and red have to be exclusive to each other.

[mmenolas]

Imagine the first samurai sword to wind up in Europe. Or when the Native Americans found out what muskets were. It would of been all to easy to suggest that these were some kind of super weapons with supernatural properties. 
 

Samurai swords in Europe wouldn't have been viewed as super weapons... They'd be viewed as nothing special... Just wanted to correct the common misconception that katanas were somehow superior to European blades. 

[Durran Durrandon]

So the brother of the Amethyst Empress had cast her down and became emperor and ushered in the Long Night.

Amethyts, Opal, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, etc Emperors are named so due to the colour of their eyes.

The Great Empire of Dawn had colonies in Westeros, notably the base of Hightower. It was most probably overseen by the relatives of the Amethyst Emperor , i.e. the Daynes. (Daynes had purple eyes). Starfall is pretty close to Hightower.

Since the brother of the Amethyst Empress is related to her, then he should be having purple eyes as well. So he has purple eyes like the Daynes. If the Blood stone emperor is indeed Azor Ahai, then that means he was a Dayne!

It would be pretty cool, if the Bloodstone emperor had wielded Dawn lol.

While I can see the first Daynes being related to the Amethyst Empress, I think the name Bloodstone Emperor is intended to give us a hint that he was a Green Seer, born with red or green eyes, or likely a combination off those colors. Real bloodstone is a dark almost black green with red deposits.

[LmL]

There's like ten different reasons I've found based on the mythical associations of bloodstone - thanks for that pointer way back when, Durran, boy was that fruitful! - and I agree with Durran that the greenseer implication is one that is intended. There are a lot of "Azor Ahai the greenseer" clues to be found lurking about. 

Durran, I'm almost done with my second podcast, which is a re-write of the Bloodstone Emperor essay. Ive really found some great text passages to support all the various bloodstone ideas... in particular I've found a lot of stuff about flowers (heliotropium) and snake poison (bloodstone associated with drawing out snake venom). Also found some great moon blood stuff (which ties into the idea of "flowering" and "de-flowering"). 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

^Your username is so metal. \m/

[Durran Durrandon]

There's like ten different reasons I've found based on the mythical associations of bloodstone - thanks for that pointer way back when, Durran, boy was that fruitful! - and I agree with Durran that the greenseer implication is one that is intended. There are a lot of "Azor Ahai the greenseer" clues to be found lurking about. 

Durran, I'm almost done with my second podcast, which is a re-write of the Bloodstone Emperor essay. Ive really found some great text passages to support all the various bloodstone ideas... in particular I've found a lot of stuff about flowers (heliotropium) and snake poison (bloodstone associated with drawing out snake venom). Also found some great moon blood stuff (which ties into the idea of "flowering" and "de-flowering"). 

I'm looking forward to it!

[LmL]

^Your username is so metal. \m/

Shout! {shout}

Shout! {shout}

Shout at the blogger!

 

Dragon-horns High! Very high!

 

They don't call me the horned lord for nothing mate! 

 

(that's all I got)

[Falcon2908]

Falcon, have you read my theory about that? I think you're right, to say the least. I'm actually going to be guest appearing on History of Westeros later this month to talk about that. I definitely think it's a thing, although it seems like there were two swords - black sword with red fire, and a white sword with pale fire, and that they clashed. I don't think Dawn belong to AA - I've pegged AA as the bad guy (the Bloodstone Emperor) with the red fire black sword, and some Westerosi champion as the one with Dawn. Alternatively, Dawn might trace back to the swords of pale fire wielded by the ghosts in Dany's "wake the dragon" dream in book one. There's a couple really interesting possibilities. 

Yes! I had read all your theories earlier this year and I very much enjoyed them. In fact, this thread wouldn't have been possible after reading yours and the other related theories in these forums. I don't know what exactly History of Westeros is, but I google searched it and it seems be a series of podcasts. I look forward to listening to it.

Plus, I'm trying to figure out who had wielded Dawn. Could it necesarilly be a westerosi, or another Dayne?

[Falcon2908]

While I can see the first Daynes being related to the Amethyst Empress, I think the name Bloodstone Emperor is intended to give us a hint that he was a Green Seer, born with red or green eyes, or likely a combination off those colors. Real bloodstone is a dark almost black green with red deposits.

I thought he was called Bloodstone because he worshipped the Black Stone/Meteor. I'm not saying he isn't a greenseer or anything.

[Durran Durrandon]

I thought he was called Bloodstone because he worshipped the Black Stone/Meteor. I'm not saying he isn't a greenseer or anything.

That's definitely one way you can look at it. For me, I see that most of the gemstone emperors match the gemstone eyes in Danny's dream and want a consistent pattern. The Amethyst Empresd has amethyst eyes, so the same goes for the BSE and his eyes, and since we already have this association with black and v green eyes, it fits well. There are many ways to look at it.

[LmL]

That's definitely one way you can look at it. For me, I see that most of the gemstone emperors match the gemstone eyes in Danny's dream and want a consistent pattern. The Amethyst Empresd has amethyst eyes, so the same goes for the BSE and his eyes, and since we already have this association with black and v green eyes, it fits well. There are many ways to look at it.

many. ways. 

many.

[LmL]

Yes! I had read all your theories earlier this year and I very much enjoyed them. In fact, this thread wouldn't have been possible after reading yours and the other related theories in these forums. I don't know what exactly History of Westeros is, but I google searched it and it seems be a series of podcasts. I look forward to listening to it.

Plus, I'm trying to figure out who had wielded Dawn. Could it necesarilly be a westerosi, or another Dayne?

Well, when we are speculating on the more specific things in the past, I think it's good to think about narrative sense. I am seeing AA originally as a hostile invader to Westeros - the Battle at Battle Isle, I presume, since the black stone fortress is there, an obvious outpost of the ancient dragonlords. So, the person fighting him is most likely a Westerosi champion, right? If the Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai is an asshole with a black sword, as I think he is, then I figure it should be a First Men dude... I like Brandon of the Bloody Blade, son of Garth Greenhand and probably ancestor to Bran the Builder, but usually I just think of him as either being "proto-Stark" or a "Garth / Green Man" type person. I see George doing a dueling horned lord thing, with the goat horned baphomet / dragon type AA vs. Garth the Green Man / Cerrunos / Celtic horned stag-man figure, kind of like the oak and holly king, where two opposite gods representing winter and summer kill each other every six months and take each other's places... and there's a lot of myths like that, usually depicting the cycle of the seasons. But anyway, those are my two guesses. 

Another possibility is that there were "Amethyst Empress loyalists" who fled the Bloodstone Emperor after the usurpation that came to Westeros to try to stop AA from whatever he was doing. If Dawn is a match for the pale fire swords of the GEotD kings, then perhaps a purple eyed Am Em relative brought an original dragon sword to Westeros to defeat his father / uncle whatever, the BSE AA and his black meteor sword. 

Personally I like the idea that Dawn is the original Ice and comes from the North. I have some ideas about that but I don't want to derail the thread completely. 

[Falcon2908]

Well, when we are speculating on the more specific things in the past, I think it's good to think about narrative sense. I am seeing AA originally as a hostile invader to Westeros - the Battle at Battle Isle, I presume, since the black stone fortress is there, an obvious outpost of the ancient dragonlords. So, the person fighting him is most likely a Westerosi champion, right? If the Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai is an asshole with a black sword, as I think he is, then I figure it should be a First Men dude... I like Brandon of the Bloody Blade, son of Garth Greenhand and probably ancestor to Bran the Builder, but usually I just think of him as either being "proto-Stark" or a "Garth / Green Man" type person. I see George doing a dueling horned lord thing, with the goat horned baphomet / dragon type AA vs. Garth the Green Man / Cerrunos / Celtic horned stag-man figure, kind of like the oak and holly king, where two opposite gods representing winter and summer kill each other every six months and take each other's places... and there's a lot of myths like that, usually depicting the cycle of the seasons. But anyway, those are my two guesses. 

Another possibility is that there were "Amethyst Empress loyalists" who fled the Bloodstone Emperor after the usurpation that came to Westeros to try to stop AA from whatever he was doing. If Dawn is a match for the pale fire swords of the GEotD kings, then perhaps a purple eyed Am Em relative brought an original dragon sword to Westeros to defeat his father / uncle whatever, the BSE AA and his black meteor sword. 

Personally I like the idea that Dawn is the original Ice and comes from the North. I have some ideas about that but I don't want to derail the thread completely. 

But wasn't Dawn smithed from a comet? This fallen comet was not the common black stone, but a white stone. I also believe Starfall is built from Pale Stone/White Stone.  Hence one of the towers is named 'Pale Stone Sword'. (White Stone sword). So Dawn looks totally different/opposite of the black sword of  Azor Ahai.

And speaking of the black sword, what ever happened to it?

Also, isn't it strange that someone sees a fallen white-stone meteor and their first reaction is" Oh a white stone! Let's make a sword from it's heart!".

 

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

The black sword has been reforged into two swords, kinda like how AAR has been reborn in 2 characters.

I 100% agree that Dany is descended from the Emperors of the Dawn through her Dayne blood.

[Sydney Mae]

So the brother of the Amethyst Empress had cast her down and became emperor and ushered in the Long Night.

Amethyts, Opal, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, etc Emperors are named so due to the colour of their eyes.

The Great Empire of Dawn had colonies in Westeros, notably the base of Hightower. It was most probably overseen by the relatives of the Amethyst Emperor , i.e. the Daynes. (Daynes had purple eyes). Starfall is pretty close to Hightower.

Since the brother of the Amethyst Empress is related to her, then he should be having purple eyes as well. So he has purple eyes like the Daynes. If the Blood stone emperor is indeed Azor Ahai, then that means he was a Dayne!

It would be pretty cool, if the Bloodstone emperor had wielded Dawn lol.

The Great Empire of Dawn is not likely to play a part in the current story.  It's something Martin put in there just to enrich the history of his world.  If history dating back to just a few centuries is unreliable, think how unreliable all the tales of the Great Empire of Dawn is.  They were likely just primitive people eating bananas and walking around in their birthday suits.

[LmL]

The Great Empire of Dawn is not likely to play a part in the current story.  It's something Martin put in there just to enrich the history of his world.  If history dating back to just a few centuries is unreliable, think how unreliable all the tales of the Great Empire of Dawn is.  They were likely just primitive people eating bananas and walking around in their birthday suits.

This made me LoL a bit.

I can understand why you'd get that impression, I totally do. However, there's a lot of evidence that they are in fact quite important. Essentially, we've known that dragons come from Asshai since book one - Dany says so and Bran sees them there in his vision - and what I am claiming is that the GEotD were the dragonlords from Asshai who predate the Valyrians. Here is the full presentation of evidence if you'd like to take a look.