James Steller Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm curious how subjective a Kingsguard is to the laws of Westeros. Take Jaime for example. He deserts the capital to lead Lannister armies in the Riverlands for Tywin. Tywin is currently under royal commands to turn Ser Gregor over to the Crown for his crimes in the Riverlands. Jaime never seems to have to answer for his actions.Another example is Ser Loras. He straight up confessed to murderiny Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy in a rage. He never suffers consequences for this, but what if House Cuy and House Royce demand justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Jaime and Loras are Lannisters and Tyrells before they are Kingsguard. Had another side won the war, Jaime would certainly have been put to death/made to take the black, unless his life was part of a deal that saved thousands of lives.Loras is the same way, but its important to recognize that the last option, being part of a deal is not that unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm curious how subjective a Kingsguard is to the laws of Westeros. Take Jaime for example. He deserts the capital to lead Lannister armies in the Riverlands for Tywin. Tywin is currently under royal commands to turn Ser Gregor over to the Crown for his crimes in the Riverlands. Jaime never seems to have to answer for his actions.Another example is Ser Loras. He straight up confessed to murderiny Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy in a rage. He never suffers consequences for this, but what if House Cuy and House Royce demand justice?For Jaime I dont remember the timeline but is Tywin Hand at this point? Even if he is not Riverrun is attacked becuase Catelyn took Tyrion hostage which was an illegal act so Jaime is trying to get his brother back, not so bad in the eyes of most even if it pisses of Robert.As for Loras the best those houses could do was ask for a trial and Loras will go for a trial by combat and kill whoever they send and at the same time Cuy and Royce will piss of the Tyrell's. Both Loras and Jaime are scions of very important houses as well so the rules dont apply to them in the same way it does lesser people/hosues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Catelyn took Tyrion hostage which was an illegal actWas it? I thought she was arresting him in the name of the Warden of the North. She made a point of explaining the charges to everyone in the inn. Anyway the laws are selectively applied in Westeros when it comes to nobles, not just Kingsguard. Though Jaime does seem to test the limits of the "forsake family ties" part of his vow, as he repeatedly dons his Lannister armor and acts on behalf of his house. A stricter king who wasn't married to his sister probably would have said something about it. I'm guessing he didn't do that kinda stuff under Aerys. Well, until the day he killed him anyway. I think Loras benefits from the fact that nobody really knows what happened in that tent. He could argue he was punishing the other two rainbow guard for their incompetence, or that they must have allowed Catelyn/Brienne to kill Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 As accountable as the king wants them to be, whoever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm curious how subjective a Kingsguard is to the laws of Westeros. Take Jaime for example. He deserts the capital to lead Lannister armies in the Riverlands for Tywin. Tywin is currently under royal commands to turn Ser Gregor over to the Crown for his crimes in the Riverlands. Jaime never seems to have to answer for his actions.Robert didnt care. He could have made it an issue, but he seems pretty lax about his Kingsguards whereabouts. After all only three of them accompanied him and the royal family on the long trip to Winterfell.Robert could have ordered him back and then punished him if he refused.And Tywin is not under royal command to hand over Gregor. Ned assembled his own force to do that.Another example is Ser Loras. He straight up confessed to murderiny Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy in a rage. He never suffers consequences for this, but what if House Cuy and House Royce demand justice?He killed two enemies of the state. Not sure how much justice they can demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Was it? I thought she was arresting him in the name of the Warden of the North. She made a point of explaining the charges to everyone in the inn. Considering the King of Westeros calls it an abduction and orders Tyrion released we can safely say it was an illegal act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Considering the King of Westeros calls it an abduction and orders Tyrion released we can safely say it was an illegal act. After the fact maybe, in the sense that if the king declares you in violation of the law then you are. But I'm fairly sure Catelyn felt she was acting within her rights and not committing a crime. Had Tyrion not been a Lannister I think it would have been considered perfectly legal. Though there may have been an issue about her being out of her jurisdiction because they weren't in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 After the fact maybe, in the sense that if the king declares you in violation of the law then you are. But I'm fairly sure Catelyn felt she was acting within her rights and not committing a crime. Had Tyrion not been a Lannister I think it would have been considered perfectly legal. Though there may have been an issue about her being out of her jurisdiction because they weren't in the North. Exactly the law is a loose set of rules and those in power or with more importance get treated differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Glad King Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 After the fact maybe, in the sense that if the king declares you in violation of the law then you are. But I'm fairly sure Catelyn felt she was acting within her rights and not committing a crime. Had Tyrion not been a Lannister I think it would have been considered perfectly legal. Though there may have been an issue about her being out of her jurisdiction because they weren't in the North. I am under the understanding that it is legal, as long he is given a fair trial. I think that would also include, in a trial by combat, having right to which ever champion they want (as long as the champion agrees of course), so I think it was illegal for Lysa to deny Jaime as Tyrion's champion. However, if Catelyn were to lynch Tyrion, then it would've been a serious crime and would surely get Catelyn (and probably Ned) sentenced to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 After the fact maybe, in the sense that if the king declares you in violation of the law then you are. But I'm fairly sure Catelyn felt she was acting within her rights and not committing a crime. Had Tyrion not been a Lannister I think it would have been considered perfectly legal. Though there may have been an issue about her being out of her jurisdiction because they weren't in the North. Not perfectly legal, but you are right. It would have looked better if she did arrested him in the North.GRRM was asked if Tyrons arrest was legal:It was a bit dicey. A lord administers justice in his own lands. Catelyn would have had a much stronger claim if she had taken Tyrion in the north. Even in our own world, there are always dangers in taking on the rich and powerful, regardless of the legality of your auction or how much evidence you have... and the high lords of Westeros are a deal more prickly about their honor.And honestly, Cat must have known what Tywin's action would be as she deliberately told people that she was heading North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 who watches the watchmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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