Lord Baelish Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Thud! is definitely a return to form for Pratchett, though. It's a great book and I've already read it twice since Christmas. It helps that it was a guards book, of course, as they are the best ones in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Damn straight. Although I'd argue that Small Gods is actually the best individual novel in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artas Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Discworld is great. I think the best novels are "Small Gods" and "Night Watch", though several others come close ("Lords and Ladies" in particular). My least favourite novels of the series are "The Colour of Magic", "Equal Rites" and "The Last Continent". Interesting to see that "Carpe Jugulum" and "The Fifth Elephant" get so much bad press. I was quite fond of both. I thought Granny was actually at her best in CJ - far from being portrayed as invincible, we get to see her weak side, her fears. The scene where she sits in her cottage, pondering why she wasn't invited for the baptism of Magrat's child, was quite touching. And she only got the better of the vampires by using a trick - the Count was actually stronger than her and almost did her in. That being said, I do think Granny is one of those characters who has fulfilled her potential and should only be used sparingly, much as I love reading about her. I would like Pratchett to write something which is not Discworld related. It'd be interesting to see what he would come up with. Don't know if this is old news, but it seems that "The Wee Free Men" will be turned into a movie. Not much info yet, but: IMDb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sun Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 What I like about Pratchett is that I can re-read his books for very different reasons. If I'm in the mood for literary parodies I can read Eric, Equal Rites, Witches Abroad or Masquerade, if I'm in the mood for a new approach to all sorts of myths I can read Pyramids, Small Gods, Hogfather, Lords and Ladies, Mort, or Soul Music, if I'm in the mood for Ank-Morpork I can read the Watch books or listen to my The Truth audio book, if I'm in the mood for some of my favorite sentences and literary pictures I can read Reaper Man. I also owe it to Terry Pratchett that he gives someone like me who does not study natural sciences a good and funny approach to theories and speculations. I am amused and glad that one of my friends who has the strongest prejudices against fantasy as escapism came to like Maurice and his educated rodents and Hogfather. My biggest problem with him is the plot recycling, and that Night Watch felt like a deja-read for all the ideas epressed in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qwerty Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 My biggest problem with him is the plot recycling, and that Night Watch felt like a deja-read for all the ideas epressed in the book. Not true. I thought he did some original stuff with the revolution subplot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 My biggest problem with him is the plot recycling, and that Night Watch felt like a deja-read for all the ideas epressed in the book. oh no, I can't agree with that. I think it was his most subtle and brilliant book to date. While each of the Watch books is a take on different types of crime / detective fiction, I think this was Pratchett's tour de force. Within his setting, I counted more than a dozen references to real world revolutions. Things that he managed to tweak enough to fit into the diskworld setting. Ok, so I'm a history major, and found the whole book a joy to behold. however, that did not prepare me for the sight of my bf weeping over Night Watch as he got to the end. I cry over books all the time, but it is the first time I have seen him do that. Which means that not only has Pterry moved from slapstick and parody to cutting satire, he has also reached a depth as a writer where something can be both funny and deeply moving at the same time. "How do they rise up . . ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I consider everything between (but not including) Hogfather and Night Watch to constitute a serious slump in Pratchett's writing. After that, I'd say he's recovered completely, even if his new books are not of the same type as his old ones. I guess he had said everything he could say with his old style, and it took him a while to find his new style. see, this is weird. because I think that from Hogfather onwards, Pratchett has gone from being a good fantasy writer to a brilliant writer, not just in fantasy terms but in the wider market. He has gone from parody, through satire, to deep analysis of all the different genres of writing. You can break it down like this (imo at least): Rincewind books are the 'high' fantasy stories, and are also the travelguides to Diskworld. Connected to these are the UU characters (who also appear in other books), and I think were initially a pisstake on academia but have developed into something more than that. The Witches books look at sources of myth and faerie tales (including those of Shakespeare), and try to delve behind the common versions and assumptions. the Watch books are continually playing with the crime genre, and Pratchet is experimenting with different aspects of that like the gumshoe detective, crime noire, political thriller, spy thriller, and revolutionary epic. The Death books, ironically enough, are on the nature of what it means to be human, and why we have used anthropomorphic personification since before recorded history. I was studying metamyth at uni when Hogfather came out, and my lecturer starting raving about how we all had to read it. I think it is on the reading list now - he already had quite a few of the Witches books on the Sources of Mythology course reading list. The more literary analysis and critical theory I have done, the greater appreciation I have of his work. As for all of you dissing Last Continent - bite your tongues! You obviously need to spend time in Australia, as Pterry so often has, and get a handle on our tendency for heroism and epic mythmaking, and the dreaded 'cultural inferiority complex'. Each time I read 'we have an Opera House. That's culcha' I go into giggles. (but my bf who grew up in SE Asia just goes 'meh' so it is probably in a large part due to personal experiences) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sun Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 oh no, I can't agree with that. I think it was his most subtle and brilliant book to date. While each of the Watch books is a take on different types of crime / detective fiction, I think this was Pratchett's tour de force. Within his setting, I counted more than a dozen references to real world revolutions. Things that he managed to tweak enough to fit into the diskworld setting. Ok, so I'm a history major, and found the whole book a joy to behold. however, that did not prepare me for the sight of my bf weeping over Night Watch as he got to the end. I cry over books all the time, but it is the first time I have seen him do that. Which means that not only has Pterry moved from slapstick and parody to cutting satire, he has also reached a depth as a writer where something can be both funny and deeply moving at the same time. "How do they rise up . . ." I didn't mean to imply that Night Watch was a book in which he recycled plots, but what felt like déjà-read was that I have read so many Vime thoughts in the other watch books, and though the plot was interesting. I couldn't help myself but thinking "I know these thoughts already" every second page. It's probably a personal impression, and I'm happy to agree that we disagree, but I had real problems to finish the book. Perhaps, it was a problem of the translation I just found in the library, and I should try it again in the original version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Interesting! Hogfather is being made into a TV movie to be shown on Sky 'next Christmas' (Christmas 2007, I'm guessing, although 2006 would be doable). It's the first ever live-action adaption of the Discworld novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plessiez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Hogfather? That seems a bit of an odd choice - isn't there a lot of backstory to cram in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neongrey Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Looking for Thud! now, having some trouble finding it. Night Watch, I think, bumped Vimes up to being one of my favourite characters in the series, after the Patrician, who is every single kind of cool rolled up into one. The book itself, I just love. I'm pretty much solidly in the 'Pratchett's getting better as he goes' camp, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qwerty Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Some people dislike The Last Continent, but I personally think the bit with the God of Evolution was brilliant. Easily in the top ten Pratchett moments IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Hogfather? That seems a bit of an odd choice - isn't there a lot of backstory to cram in? I'm guessing that it was the Hogswatch = Christmas thing that sold Sky on it. I found Hogfather to be the most forgettable book in the series. I didn't buy it when it first came out and only read it about a year ago, but I literally cannot remember anything about it, save that it was a Death/Susan book. I don't think it was very continuity heavy. Certainly relying on some backstory from Mort didn't hurt Channel 4's animated version of Soul Music a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Silenus Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Reading through this thread I get the idea that The Last Continent and The Fifth Elephant are two of Pratchett's worst, and if this is true that explains alot to me. I've only read six of his Discworld books, and those were the two first of them. Honestly, I couldn't understand the Pratchett worship. A old pen-pal (remember those?) recommended Pratchett to me. She was obsessive about him. Night's Watch was another I tried and I didn't enjoy it much, either. The other three were Equal Rites, The Truth and The Last Hero... these I found hilarious. Is Discworld often this hit-and-miss? I'm thinking of reading Going Postal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerySmallMonster Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I'm a huge pratchett fan myself (probably not to hard to guess, given the avatar). I love all of his characters (although I'm getting tired of Rincewind), but I'd say Susan and Death are my favorites. My favorite books in no particular order are Hogfather, Thief of Time, Nights Watch, Jingo, and Men at Arms. I don't really understand the Carpe Jugulum hate. I thought it was a good story, very funny, and I liked that the bad guys were almost convincing. I mean, what's the point of having self-righteous villains, if they don't make you think, 'hey you might have a point there.' I also liked that Granny couldn't just dominate them, she had to fool them to win. Although if it is too similar to Lords and Ladies, that may explain why I've never been that fond of L&L; I read Carpe Jugulum first. Not sure how I feel about them making a live action TV Movie of Hogfather. It could be good I guess, but I'm afraid they'll bomb it. Edit: removed your double posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The Truth is one of the best stand-alones, as is Going Postal. What the hell, why not do the whole lot? The Colour of Magic - Rincewind - 1983 Enjoyable, but a different style and feel to the other books. The Discworld is more of a serious fantasy world, Rincewind is merely a bumbler who has misadventures there. However, some iconic imagery and the most detailed exploration of the nature of the Discworld itself make it an interesting read. The graphic novel version is also very good. *** The Light Fantastic - Rincewind - 1985 Direct sequel to TCOM but already the style of the writing is shifting more towards Pratchett's later tone. Very entertaining, especially the introduction of Cohen the Barbarian *** Equal Rites - Granny Weatherwax - 1987 Solid and enjoyable, introduces Granny Weatherwax. Funny, but somewhat slight. *** Mort - Death - 1987 Lauded as the best Discworld novel for years, I found it rather lacking. Some good laughs but nothing too special. *** u Sourcery - Rincewind - 1988 Rincewind returns, mayhem ensues. Notable for introducing the other three Horsemen of the Apocralypse and the scene where they miss the end of the world when they stop for a pub lunch. Extremely funny. **** Wyrd Sisters - Granny Weatherwax - 1988 Introduces Magrat and the unstoppable Nanny Ogg and fills in the background of the Kingdom of Lancre. The plot may be lifted from Macbeth, but it's still raucoulsly funny. An early classic. **** Pyramids - stand-alone - 1989 Another classic, introducing the Kingdom of Djelibeybi (d'ya get it?), a pyramid-obsessed Egyptian-flavoured country 150 miles long and 2 miles wide. **** Guards! Guards! - City Watch - 1989 Almost continually funny satire on police procedurals marking the first appearance of Vimes, Nobby, Colon and Carrot. The first solid classic in the series. ***** Faust Eric - Rincewind - 1990 Short and somewhat slight novel. Intermittently amusing, but lacking the depth of the other works. *** Moving Pictures - stand-alone, cameo from the Wizards & City Watch - 1990 Clever and amusing satire on Hollywood, with an excellent pastiche of King Kong at the end. **** Reaper Man - Death - 1991 Solid book, but as with most Death ones lacking something for me. Enjoyable. *** Witches Abroad - Granny Weatherwax - 1991 Road movie-style story following the Witches from Lancre to Genua and the unwitting mayhem they trigger along the way. Very funny, although the ending is a bit flat. **** Small Gods - stand-alone - 1992 Simply the single best Pratchett book of them all. Religious fundamentalism is tackled in arguably the most serious book in the series, but featuring by far the most hilarious death sequence. ***** Lords and Ladies - Granny Weatherwax - 1992 The Elves finally turn up and every single person who has ever wanted to lay out Legolas gets their wish come true in what is partly a war story and partly a treatise on the superficiality of beauty. Introduces Casanunda, the greatest dwarf since Thorin Oakenshield, and reveals Ridcully to be a surprising man of action. Also a great joke on the Schroedinger's Box theory. ***** Men at Arms - City Watch - 1993 Entertaining sequel to Guards! Guards!, introducing firearms to the Discworld and a love interest for Carrot. **** Soul Music - Death - 1994 Solid book which introduces rock music to the Discworld. Aside from some great band names, the novel is somewhat ordinary, notable only for introducing the recurring character of Susan. *** Interesting Times - Rincewind - 1994 Surprisingly weak book, with out first (and to date only) visit to the Agatean Empire and the Counterweight Continent weakened by some inane scenes at the start of the book. The novel never really gets going and it feels like Pratchett only wrote it because his publishers wanted to see Rincewind again. ** Maskerade - Granny Weatherwax - 1995 The Witches come to Ankh-Morpork in this intresting take on The Phantom of the Opera. As someone who hates opera, this book was surprisingly funny and enjoyable. *** Feet of Clay - City Watch - 1996 Excellent continuation of the City Watch stories. Very well written, featuring a great fantasy take on robots and androids. **** Hogfather - Death - 1996 Actually strangely forgettable book about Christmas. I remember it not being tremendously bad, but not great either. *** Jingo - City Watch - 1997 Ankh-Morpork goes to war over some pointless islands in this interesting take on warfare, but ultimately not one of the funniest books in the series. *** The Last Continent - Rincewind - 1998 Very weak novel, possibly the weakest in the series to date, albeit with a few good gags. ** Carpe Jugulum - Granny Weatherwax - 1998 Another weak book about unreformed vampires menacing Lancre. Feels too much like treading over ground alread established in Lords and Ladies. ** The Fifth Elephant - City Watch - 1999 Dull book about Vimes sorting out problems in a city allied to Ankh-Morpork. ** The Truth - stand-alone, camoes by the City Watch - 2000 Excellent return to form, establishing Pratchett's 'new' format of basing his books mainly in Ankh-Morpork with more cross-pollination between his established characters and new ones. Very funny satire on the newspaper and tabloid industry. ***** Thief of Time - stand-alone - 2001 Irritatingly dull book about the nature of time. ** Night Watch - City Watch - 2002 Vimes in time travel story. Funny with a serious underpinning and an interesting book all-round. *** Monstrous Regiment - stand-alone, cameos by the City Watch - 2003 Despite the slightly unbelievable premise, this war story sees a young woman joining the army to search for his missing brother. Pratchett turns cliches on their heads once again to great effect. *** Going Postal - Moist von Lipwig, camoes by the City Watch - 2004 Largely different characters, but a similar feel to The Truth with a promising, initially very amoral new character and some great development of Ankh-Morpork, plus at last an in-depth look at the AM 'clacks' system. ***** Thud! - City Watch - 2005 Haven't read it yet. I take my Pratchett in paperback. Making Money - Mois von Lipwig - 2006 (forthcoming) This Christmas' Pratchett hardcover. Rumoured to be about the revival of the Ankh-Morpork Mint. I haven't read the Young Adult novels yet (The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents, The Wee Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky and the forthcoming Wintersmith and I Shall Wear Midnight). Pratchett has also announced that Rincewind will return and there will be additional Discworld books entitled Nation, Unseen Academicals and Scouting for Trolls. The Streets of Ankh-Morpork and The Discworld Mappe are great references to have to hand and both have some very funny notes attached to them. Once you are more familiar with the series, than the latest edition of The Discworld Companion is worth picking up for its hilarious expansion of background detail to the books (like the agrophobic elephants who walk around in huts; they do not find these difficult to acquire as "few people will remain in a hut once an elephant joins them"). 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Martin Silenus Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Werthead -- Many thanks for the thorough Discworld synopses (with ratings, no less)! I have to leave soon, so I'll look them over in-depth tomorrow, but Going Postal still sounds good to me. I'll probably start with Ankh-Morpork centric titles and stand alones. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qwerty Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 *kicks Werthead* You left out The Last Hero!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 My least favourite novels of the series are "The Colour of Magic", "Equal Rites" and "The Last Continent". Those three are my least favourite as well. I can sort of forgive Pratchett for the first two, seeing as they are right at the beginning of the series and were written before Pratchett hit his stride, but The Last Continent was just downright painful. I've never been a big fan of Rincewind - there are only so many things you can do with that sort of two-dimensional character - but The Last Continent managed to feature a sleep-inducingly boring plot as well. The only redeeming features were a couple of scenes involving the UU wizards. As for favourites, I'm a bit undecided. Having a fondness for dark storylines, I like Hogfather and Night Watch (and to a lesser extent Small Gods). Hogfather's stripping back of tame cultural traditions to their "serious" roots was very effective, while Night Watch features a lovely sinister atmosphere, made all the more dark by the reader's realisation that the downfall of Winder is only going to lead to the installation of Mad Lord Snapcase. On the other hand, for sheer out-and-out hilariousness, you can't beat Soul Music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qwerty Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Leech, I'm guessing you're a big music fan. Most people don't catch all the references in Soul Music. I really like the first two books, even if they seem like they're in a different mindset than the retst of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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