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AFFC Reread Project - Cersei


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#81 Thynessa Reed

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 12:26 PM

View Postrpthomps, on Jan 16 2006, 13.41, said:

Cersei finds a “bloody half-formed chick,” (pg 172) what could this mean?

Possibility of a pregnancy and future miscarriage perhaps?

#82 Bastard of Godsgrace

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 07:35 AM

I don't think Cersei's bloody chick means anything more than gererally bad omen.  Cersei is being he r usual charming self. She is strongly fixated on Joffrey and blames everybody for not mourning him (should give her reason to think, shouldn't it?).

Taena is definitely up tosomething. It is clear that she works for someone other than Olenna, IMHO. It is also interesting that Cersei does notice her attractiveness and is at least to some extent aroused by her.

Jaime evidently still didn't give up on Cersei. He tries to reason with her, and even asks her to dance, but she does everything she can to scare him away - that is really stupid!

Cersei is infuriated any time someone calls Margaery "queen". Another fine point.

The last scene is realy fun. We see Cersei's insanity in all its glory.

#83 Geoff

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 12:11 PM

View PostBastard of Godsgrace, on Jan 17 2006, 07.35, said:

Taena is definitely up tosomething. It is clear that she works for someone other than Olenna, IMHO. It is also interesting that Cersei does notice her attractiveness and is at least to some extent aroused by her.
Lady Merryweather is indeed in interesting case. She clearly lied about Tyrion poisoning Joffrey in her testimony. I think I agree with you that she in most likely not working for the Queen of Thorns. But she appears to be trying to spread paranoia and discord among the Lannisters. Like others here, I think that Senelle was innocent. Was Taena attempting to get a spy into her position?

View PostBastard of Godsgrace, on Jan 17 2006, 07.35, said:

Jaime evidently still didn't give up on Cersei. He tries to reason with her, and even asks her to dance, but she does everything she can to scare him away - that is really stupid!
Yes. She is not only stupid but very cruel to Jaime. The woman has no empathy. Jaime clearly does love her and finds it hard to give up completely on her. I think she is capable of flipping that love 180 into hate, but so far she hasn't.

I laughed at this image: "Gyles Rosby made to kiss her hand and only succeeded in coughing on her fingers."

Cersei says, "...to celebrate the union of Highgarden and Casterly Rock." A careless slip up, or was it intentional?

Geoff

#84 Happy Ent

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 04:52 AM

Timeline. One more detail: if I remember correctly, this chapter has the first mention of the rape of Saltpans. (Or am I mixing up my Cersei chapters now?)

Another detail: The pyromancers have been cooking fresh wildfire (for Cersei's remodelling project) for a fortnight. This gives a lower bound on the distance between Cersei II and Cersei III.

Edited by Happy Ent, 19 January 2006 - 10:53 AM.


#85 winter's child

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:55 PM

Possibility of a pregnancy and future miscarriage perhaps?

It is mentioned at least twice that her dresses are a bit tight in the waist...classic early sign of pregnancy...as if the people of Westeros will need another indicator of her treachery and incompetance.  FWIW.

#86 rpthomps

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 07:53 PM

View Postwinter, on Jan 19 2006, 13.55, said:

Possibility of a pregnancy and future miscarriage perhaps?

It is mentioned at least twice that her dresses are a bit tight in the waist...classic early sign of pregnancy...as if the people of Westeros will need another indicator of her treachery and incompetance.  FWIW.

I LOVE IT!

Here is a crazy theory...Cersei finds out she is pregnant and goes to Qyburn to remove the fetus. However, he doesn't kill it but uses it for his own diabolical schemes.

#87 Lupigis

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 06:16 PM

I don't think Cersei is pregnant - after all, she successfully managed to avoid being impregnated by Robert for years, and has had three children, so she should know about it by now if she was really pregnant. More likely she is gaining weight. Taena is a spy for sure, and based on evidence in the coming chapters I think she works for Varys. The prophecy of Maggy the frog is alluded to. I noted that the prophecy specifically says that the young queen will take all that Cersei holds dear. What is that, precisely? Power, beauty, her children, her Lannister heritage, what else? Is there a clue to future plot developments to be gained here, or am I grasping at straws?

Sigh. I really don't fancy the Cersei chapters. When GRRM revealed her incompetence I lost interest in her as a villain, and I only feel anything for her as a person in the occasional scene. I hope her time in the spotlight is over soon.

#88 Ashara Stark

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 11:26 AM

Cersei dreams of a white castle outside King's Landing. She wants to build it once the war is finished but I think it will be Dany who will build it.
In this chapter we know that Maggy the Frog prophesied that Cersei would be queen until another younger and more beautiful would come. I agree with Cersei that Margaerys is not more beautiful than her, but Dany is  :)

Jaime says Cersei sounds like Aerys. Actually, he is right because both of them turn to madness because of fear, and I think it is likely that Cersei is following the same path that Aerys once did.

At the wedding feast Tommen coughs and Margaery doesn't fear for him, because she knows he is not going to be poisoned like Joffrey was. And she could be only so sure about it because she was part of the plot to kill Joffrey pr at least knew about it. So, for me this is another hint that points to the Tyrells being the ones that poisoned Joffrey.

In this chapter we also have the first hint about cersei being in love with Rhaegar.

Hallyne says that there are only three things that burn hotter than wildfire: dragonflame, the fires beneath the earth and the summer sun. So, I think this confirms that dragons are a good weapon against the Others, and wildfire may be as well.

View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 19 2006, 10.52, said:

Timeline. One more detail: if I remember correctly, this chapter has the first mention of the rape of Saltpans. (Or am I mixing up my Cersei chapters now?)
Yes, you are right, it is in this chapter. A message was received the night before Tommen's wedding talking about the Hound and the attack on Saltpans.

Quote

Senelle is one of:
(a) Entirely innocent, having been set up.
I would go for option a). I think she is completeley innocent and Taena uses her as a scapegoat  only to gain Cersei's trust.

Edited by Ashara Stark, 22 January 2006 - 11:28 AM.


#89 Happy Ent

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 03:27 AM

Timeline I have updated the timeline as follows for this chapter: the rape of Saltpans happens Feb 18 or Feb 19, and Tommy weds Marge a few days after that, say 21 Feb. Between Cersei II and Cersei III I now have two-and-a-half weeks, which rhymes with the fact that the pyromancers have been brewing fresh wildfire for a fortnight. Tyrion Waters will be delivered on 1 Mar, a week from now. (This rhymes with the Stokeworth absence.)

#90 Happy Ent

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 05:16 AM

Next week we have

CERSEI IV

featuring a hilarious meeting of Cersei's smallest council. I suggest we all keep our eyes open and play Find the Varys plant while we read it. Substitute "Varys" for whatever other conspiracy theory fits you. But I think it will be fruitful to read the scene with a very suspicious mindset, always asking "Why did he say that? Maybe he is really working for Hot Pie!" Something is bound to turn up!

(For example, I now believe that Merryweather is no fool, but Swyft is.)

#91 rpthomps

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 07:51 AM

View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 27 2006, 05.16, said:

Next week we have

CERSEI IV

featuring a hilarious meeting of Cersei's smallest council. I suggest we all keep our eyes open and play Find the Varys plant while we read it. Substitute "Varys" for whatever other conspiracy theory fits you. But I think it will be fruitful to read the scene with a very suspicious mindset, always asking "Why did he say that? Maybe he is really working for Hot Pie!" Something is bound to turn up!

I always suspected Hot Pie of having his finger in something...

#92 Happy Ent

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:01 AM

Forgive me for starting two days early, but I may not have much time Monday...

CERSEI IV

Arboreal perspective: "By way of apology" Qyburn proposes to present the head (that may be Gregor's) in an ebony box. Very nice. Qyburn has good taste.

Aurane Waters. Clever. All he thinks about is building a fleet and having it crewed by men of dubious allegiance. He suggests poachers and rapists. In a later chapter we learn that he indeed manages to crew them with his own men. 10 Dromonds, on crown money... for whom? My guess is Dany (so Aurane would work for Varys), but Stannis (his liege lord) is a likely answer as well. Remember that Aurane captained his own ship on Stannis's side on the Battle of the Blackwater. This is pretty much all he contributes, except for apologetically mentioning dragons at the very end (when he is sure that the notion is dismissed), pretty much like Varys did months ago.

Aurane also tells us about the golden company, and adds that in the docks, people speculate they join Stannis. (Surely a lie.) Anything to prevent Cersei from guessing that something is fishy in the East. Again, that would be consistent with Aurane working for Varys.

Orton Merryweather. Orton agrees with Aurane immediately:

Quote

"Might we discuss the fleet?" asked Aurane Waters. "[...] restore our strength at sea."
Merryweather nodded. "Strength at sea is most essential."
Then the dialogue continues queerly:

Quote

"Could we make use of the ironmen?" asked Orton Merryweather.
Huh? The man just spoke. Why not "...he continued". Poor editing. Anyway, OM goes on to suggest that the queen double-cross Bolton and promise the North to the Ironmen as well, at least for a while. "It need not be a permanent arrangement. Bolton might consent, as long as we assure him that our strength will be his once Stannis is destroyed". Pycelle objects, sagely.

I don't understand what OM is getting at. Does he just want to undermine the stability of the North by having Ironborn and Bolton and Stannis fight each other? Anyway, Cersei doesn't like the idea. Speculation: OM wants the Ironborn to attack Stannis (on the crown's behalf). Whom does that help? House Tyrell, because if the Ironborn are busy in the North they cannot take the Shield Isles. But we only know that in hindsight.

Otherwise, OM does what he can to support every idiocy of Cersei's. From the beginning he makes sure she is drunk, refilling her cup when it is empty. When Cersei has the sterling idea to stop paying the Faith and the Bank of Braavos (in order to build the fleet that OM agreed was a good idea), he says "Your Grace is prudent. This is a wise measure. And needed." No it's not. Pycelle tells us.

I guess OM is no fool. There is slight evidence that he works with Aurane. But he may just be supporting every crazy idea there is, with no deeper motive than to plunge Cersei into disaster. He need not work for Varys, but he may be working for the Tyrells.

He also suggests to do nothing in the Vale matter. That probably helps Littlefinger more than the Vale lords. Or? I don't know. He also wants Davos sent to KL (Qyburn wants him dead).

Harys Swyft is a complete idiot, shown confused on several occasions "Turnip knight?" "I thought we had no ships?" I don't think he has a single idea in the entire meeting. He cannot be a catspaw.

Gyles Rosby is useless as well. But funny.

Pycelle I think is exactly what he claims. A wise advisor, trying to help the crown. Nobody listens, of course.

Qyburn also doesn't have a hidden agenda here, as far as I can tell. He suggests the plot to kill Jon Snow, and also to kill Davos. The queen loves it. I think that's enough. Qyburn is just trying to make himself useful. And to tease Pycelle a bit, of course.  

Quote

[About the high septon]
"He was a done old man, Your Grace" Qyburn smiled at Pycelle

Cersei is in over her head, of course. She is very realistic, I have been to many meetings led by people dumber than her. I feel for Pycelle a lot. I love it that Cersei fades out and in of conversations when she loses concentration. (She is drinking, too, which doesn't help.) When Pycelle and OM talk about High Septons, Cersei gets bored and starts ogling Aurane. Great.

#93 Mind Elemental

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:02 PM

Weeeell, it's the 29th here, and I see comments have already started on the Jaime thread, so:

I would rank the councillors, in descending order of intelligence, as follows: Qyburn, Aurane, Pycelle, Merryweather, (Cersei), Gyles, Harys Swyft. I believe that Merryweather and Pycelle, in particular, are sharper than Cersei gives them credit for.


View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 29 2006, 01.01, said:

Aurane Waters. Clever. All he thinks about is building a fleet and having it crewed by men of dubious allegiance. He suggests poachers and rapists. In a later chapter we learn that he indeed manages to crew them with his own men. 10 Dromonds, on crown money... for whom? My guess is Dany (so Aurane would work for Varys), but Stannis (his liege lord) is a likely answer as well. Remember that Aurane captained his own ship on Stannis's side on the Battle of the Blackwater. This is pretty much all he contributes, except for apologetically mentioning dragons at the very end (when he is sure that the notion is dismissed), pretty much like Varys did months ago.

Aurane also tells us about the golden company, and adds that in the docks, people speculate they join Stannis. (Surely a lie.) Anything to prevent Cersei from guessing that something is fishy in the East. Again, that would be consistent with Aurane working for Varys.

I'm not 100% certain that Aurane is working for Varys, but if that did turn out to be the case, I wouldn't be at all surprised. However, I wouldn't put it past him to be telling the truth about the dock rumours. We've heard some really wild rumours before.

View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 29 2006, 01.01, said:

Orton Merryweather. Orton agrees with Aurane immediately:
Then the dialogue continues queerly:

Huh? The man just spoke. Why not "...he continued". Poor editing.

I thought one half of Orton's odd dialogue was actually meant to be assigned to someone else. "Strength at sea is most essential" and "Could we make use..." are both in-character for him, but the former sounds like something Pycelle could also say, and the latter something Swyft might.

Merryweather's suggestion to promise the north to the Ironborn as well: Actually not a bad idea, especially as he proposes at least getting Bolton's consent to it.

Merryweather playing yes-man to Cersei's idiocy: This one is less certain -- sending Davos to KL is a very good idea. Dead men tell no tales, after all. Also, doing nothing in the Vale is perfectly consistent with the general opinion that Littlefinger is a nonentity.

Do I agree that Merryweather is no fool? Yep. Do I think he's out to sabotage Cersei? This one I'm a lot more unsure about. Yes, he gives her some bad advice (eg. the Iron Bank), yes, he does his best to get her drunk, but he also has some good ideas. Perhaps he is neither a fool nor a genius -- just a fellow of average intelligence.



View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 29 2006, 01.01, said:

Harys Swyft is a complete idiot, shown confused on several occasions "Turnip knight?" "I thought we had no ships?" I don't think he has a single idea in the entire meeting. He cannot be a catspaw.

Gyles Rosby is useless as well. But funny.

Pycelle I think is exactly what he claims. A wise advisor, trying to help the crown. Nobody listens, of course.

Agreed to all three. By the way, upon carefully rereading the chapter, I pictured Harys Swyft, with his "absurd little white puff of beard", looking like Colonel Saunders -- and that's not counting the rooster (closer to Red Rooster than KFC, but still a chicken)! Did anyone else get this mental image?

View PostHappy Ent, on Jan 29 2006, 01.01, said:

Qyburn also doesn't have a hidden agenda here, as far as I can tell. He suggests the plot to kill Jon Snow, and also to kill Davos. The queen loves it. I think that's enough. Qyburn is just trying to make himself useful. And to tease Pycelle a bit, of course.

Agreed, once again. The only really bad suggestion Qyburn makes is killing Davos -- Merryweather had the right idea, there. Otherwise, his ideas are almost all good ones, including his observation that the next Lord Frey would have a motive to throw a few relatives to the wolves. (No pun intended.)

#94 rpthomps

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 07:30 PM

Cersei Chapter...

Great idea to read this one with a suspicious mind. I tried to do so during and after the council!

If, by chance, a Varys plant was succesful in getting into the small council, then I would think that they would not be as skilled as a manipulator as he. They would primarily be there to report back to him and influence Cersei subtly. They would not have much autonomy and would have to wait for instruction. This would be mean they are more like spies. I saw spies in all of them for the following reasons:

Swyft - because he seemed to ask the most questions and did not offer much to the meeting. His stupidity may be feigned.

Qyburn - is a natural choice because he had to make contact with Varys' birds anyways. Varys could have contacted him via that means.

Gyles - was briefly a contender but his coughing provoked too much annoyance. He went from Cersei having a low opinion of him to Cersei thinking about about him too much. He might die too soon as well, which would be useless to Varys.

Pycelle - he is the only councillor from the previous small council and therefore Varys was assured that he was there. Varys also indicated he was interested in the realm's security so he could have sold Pycelle on that measure.

In the end, I discounted all of them. Varys could not guarantee any of them could have been on the council and he may be too far away to influence the council quickly enough. He needs someone who is a natural manipulator and who is intelligent and whom Cersei trusts. The traitor would have to go to Cersei. So I picked Taena Merryweather. If Varys is in the east, she has ties there, a good excuse to confer with Varys with subterfuge.

Some other finds:

Qyburn seems to have killed the High Septon for Cersei, who died in his sleep. How convienient.

Ser Balon has another task to perform in Sunspear. What could it be? Is it simply meeting with Arys Oakheart for information? Or, will he smuggle Marcella out of Dorne?

Cersei mentions donning Jaime's clothes when she was little. Is this the beginnings of bi-sexuality or just the games that twins often play?

I find Petyr's request for tapestries of Robert's interesting. What is he going to do with them? Is he using them to sell? I keep thinking he is trying to recreate some place, an illusion, but for what reason, I don't know.

Also, Osfryd gaves Osney a gift of a horse. Isn't Osfryd with Petyr? Indicates a recent parcel of equipment and information took place from the Vale. Why did Osney get the horse? What does Petyr want Osney to do?

The Golden Company breaking their contract is mentioned again. I am thinking some great cause, like religious zeal or a prophesy coming to fruition, is the only way to incur this to happen.

Finally, White Harbour to join the Queen? I thought they had pledged to Stannis?

#95 Ser Vlad

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 09:14 PM

Happy Ent,

RE: OM

I think that there's a strong probability of Lord Orton being involved with Varys, and the plot to restore the Targayriens. I'm not sure, and I may be confusing him with Rosby, but I recall that the Merryweathers received the short end of the stick during Robert's rebellion, and lost lands and status. If my memory is correct, then this may help establish motive in the Merryweathers involvement with Varys. There's certainly evidence in favour of Taena being tied to Varys, and both Merryweathers seem to work towards a collapse of Cersei's rule in Westeros. If we assume that Varys arranged the death of Tywin, which I think is strongly hinted at in the books, then their agenda becomes very in-line with that of the Spider.

I'm not completely sure, but I recall that OM was very interested in the Blue Bard, when Cersei hosted him and Taena before she tortured the BB. It may be that he new what was coming, and anticipated Cersei's reaction, but that's circumstancial, I guess.

#96 Happy Ent

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 01:52 AM

View Postrpthomps, on Jan 30 2006, 01.30, said:

Qyburn seems to have killed the High Septon for Cersei, who died in his sleep. How convienient.
No. That was Osney Ketteblack, who already got his reward for it (sleeping with Cersei). This becomes important later, when Osney submits himself to the Faith, because he confesses to the deed under torture. That's not so good for Cersei, since she is thereby guilty of conspiracy to kill the High Septon.

Quote

The Golden Company breaking their contract is mentioned again. I am thinking some great cause, like religious zeal or a prophesy coming to fruition, is the only way to incur this to happen.
The general opinion is that they will join Dany. They are formed by Bittersteel, a Blackfyre rebel.

Quote

Finally, White Harbour to join the Queen? I thought they had pledged to Stannis?
That entire plot line goes completely over my head. I am sure we don't have enough information.

#97 A wilding

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 08:28 AM

Yes, the council meeting was quite something, and makes it obvious that Cersei is heading for disaster. As someone put it way back in October; you can see how bad things are when Pycelle is the voice of reason on the council.

Ser Balon's extra task for Cersei is unlikely to be anything too dishonourable, or he would have probably have told Jaime about it.

All of the Kettleblacks are working for LF, or at least they all were originally. It is likely that there are limits as to how much LF either trusts or depends on them though. I think that LF said in ASoS that Osmund had become an unreliable agent since he joined the KG.

I believe that there is some stuff about White Harbour in the ADwD spoilers. Ignoring those though, it would seem that either Lord Manderley is genuinely willing to give his allegiance to KL, or is feigning willingness to do so in order to get his heir back. In the latter case the execution of Davos in a later chapter might have been faked, if Manderley is after all intending to join with Stannis.

Also to summarise a few other points about this chapter that have been pointed out elsewhere:

- The dwarf whose head Cersei is given at the start of the chapter is probably the same dwarf that Brienne met in Duskendale. This means that it can't be his head that is being sent to Dorne.

- Cersei mentions that the fake Arya is a "steward's whelp tricked out by LF", further evidence that it is Jeyne Poole.

- It is unlikely that Taena would have told Cersei about her pirate lover if it gave Cersei any sort of hold over her. It is quite possibly a complete lie.

#98 Happy Ent

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 02:39 PM

Timeline This will be an important chapter for getting DwD in sync with this book.

Since the Jaime chapter, Cersei has assembled her Small Council, including Aurane and Orton, as she talked about with Jaime. Apart from that, there is little information to put a date on this in relation to Jaime III. About the only thing is that Mace now "has Storm's End invested". So he made the trip from King's Landing to the Stormlands. Does that take one or two weeks, at least to get the heavy horse there?

The high septon is dead. Last night, Septon Luceon feasted the Most Devout on suckling pig, so the death is at least two nights ago.

So how about this:

March

8 Tommen weds Marge.
12 Tyrell force begins leaving
18 Jaime III Kevan leaves
22 Tyrell forces have invested Storm's End
23 High Septon is killed in the night
25 Cersei IV

Before Cersei IV: Riverrun besieged, Storm's End invested, Davos captured (if that's true).

#99 Wouter

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 06:06 PM

Interesting chapter.

The dwarf that was killed by the "headhunters" is the sparrow that Brienne met earlier on. But Cersei is ready to have 100s of dwarfs killed if it gets her Tyrion. Charming as always.

Qyburn says that he has whisperers at many places, including Gulltown. I wonder if that will play a part with Ser Shadrich, later on. In the conversation about the skull, it's implied that it is Gregor's head. Aurane later mentions disparagingly to Swyft that removing the head is often deadly. It just might not have been that deadly in this case, though.  :sick:
Cersei is confident that Qyburn will serve as well as Varys did, as master of whisperers. I think she underestimates Varys' skill in this line of work badly, even though Qyburn is likely a lot more loyal to her than Varys.

Lots of detail on Tywin's body again, I wonder if this is significant as GRRM is quite beating us over the head with this. It also struck me how hostile Cersei has become to Jaime - she thinks it good that the others are laughing at him, as it shows that he isn't as feared as before.

Cersei seems to like Littlefinger, and like everyone else she underestimates him badly, thinking he'll be kicked out of the Vale. A bit later the Greyjoys get mentioned, and here it surprises me that no-one, including Qyburn, seems to realise that Theon 'killed' Bran and Rickon - it is mentioned that Theon wouldn't be a friend of KL because he was Eddard's ward, a weird reasoning in light of everything that had happened! Likewise, nobody in the smallest council seems to even know Balon's brothers, leave alone who is likely to succeed him on the iron throne.

"The Iron Bank will have its due", sounds rather ominous. I don't think that Gyles is a fool by the way, sure he's no LF but he seems competent enough as master of coin, except for the fact that he's pretty much dying, offcourse.

"How many lands and honors does that man want" wonders Cersei about Walder Frey. Rather funny, considering how insatiable for lands and honors the Lannisters, Tywin foremost of them, seem(ed) to be.

I had forgotten that the Sparrows were preaching against the Red Wedding, as an affront to "the laws of gods and men". Somewhat surprising considering that it were godless (not of the Seven , anyway) northmen who were slaughtered, but I suppose guest right is ingrained deeply in Westeros. The Freys are gonna get in trouble over this if even the faith is condemning them for it, and Qyburn and Cersei already see the need to distance the throne from them.

Aurane mentions the Golden Company, suggesting it may turn to Stannis. Is he honest here or perhaps working on Varys' behalf, does he know about Dany? The offhand, dismissing mentioning of the dragons at the end is also suspicious.

Cersei mentions several northern lords who supposedly will support Bolton. Given the doubts about the sincerity of Manderly's submission to KL, I wonder if some kind of Red wedding, or Ramsay-like ambush, in reverse may be staged? If some northerners would turn on Ramsays host while attacking Moat Cailin...

Qyburn, also surprisingly imo, sees the need for a few Frey heads to mollify the northmen (doubt it would work though, and Walder isn't dead yet).  Pycelle reminds Cersei that Sansa is still alive so that the Starks aren't wiped out, yet. Cersei's reaction to that is rather perplexing, even for her counsellors who grow silent. Cersei really seems to think that she treated Sansa kindly, and that she should have her locked in the black cells - seem sort of self-delusion as with the blue bard later, I guess. It's quite funny that Cersei thinks she refuses to say Sansa's name, and then does it anyway 5 lines later! Curiously, Cersei thinks that Sansa helped Tyrion murder Joffrey, while she believes Tyrion to be the poisoner. Just what is Sansa's part believed to be then, surely Cersei doesn't think that she was the masterbrain or that she had the resources to get the poison why Tyrion did not?

Cersei clearly knows about the fake Arya plot, but she gives no indication that she realises that the girl LF turned up was Sansa's friend. Another one who should have been "shown to the Black cells", I guess.

Cersei would probably be disappointed about her plots working on Jon like they did on Ned, if she ever gets the chance to execute those plans.

#100 Bastard of Godsgrace

Bastard of Godsgrace

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 02:06 PM

Yes, there is a lot of interesting things going on in this chapter. The theory that Cersei sent dwarf's head tu Dorne is now officially dead, I think. I wonder whose head it is, though? Qyburn never says explicitly it is Gregor's, and I don't believe it is. I like the zombie Gregor idea, but Gregor with Falyse's head sewn to his body would look rather cheesy.

The council is truly dismal. I agree that any gropu in which Pycelle is a voice of reason, has deep troubles. I wonder if there is someone here who is NOT a plant? Admittedly, Pycelle and Harys seem unlikely, but it was theorized that they work for Kevan who waits till Cersei will destroy herself with her blunders, hoping to replace her. No proof for it here, but it cannot be excluded. Merryweather's proposal of alliance with ironmen does indeed sound strange. Some thought that first lover mentioned by Taena was in fact Euron Crow Eye, but description doesn't fit. I think Varys is more likely here.

Aurane seems only interested in getting ships, so it does seem likely that he works for someone who needs a fleet. MI would put my money on Stannis, but Targaryen supporters also seem possible.

I think Qyburn also is up to something. He gvies  Cersei really bad advice - both in case of Jon Snow and Davos. Jon Snow is no threat for her now, and unlikely to become a threat in the future (unless you know about L + R = J, which I assume he doesn't) and attempt on his life will certainly further hurt her reputation. In case of Davos, he advices her to demand his head, instead of living prisoner. He certainly realizes that heads can be faked? Especially if he just made fake Gregor head for the Dornishmen. I guess it is possible that Qyburn is merely being sycophantic and tries to feed off Cersei's paranoia, but somehow I don't think he is so short-sighted.

It would be all of them. It looks like everybody in this council is either a plant or a complete moron - in some cases possibly  both ;)