149 replies to this topic

[Happy Ent]

Timeline To add to the above exchange. When Sandor meets Polliver et al. at the inn, Ser Gregor has just left his Harrenhal posse for King's Landing, in order to fight in Tyrion's trial. That trial is very easy to fix in time (we get day-by-day accounts of Tyrion being in prison, awaiting his trial. Since Joffrey's date of deat is known, we get a pretty good fix on Sandor's wound. (Gregor cannot have left Harrenhal much before the Joffrey–Marge wedding.)

To be concrete, I have Gregor leaving Harrenhal on the 5th. (Note that this implies still working communication between the Crown and Harrenhal's ravens.) Arya kills the Tickler on the 7th. (Sandor is wounded.) She then leaves Saltpans after six more days of travel (we know that interval, the book says so), on the 13th. Oberyn dies (according to my calculations) on the 12th. That's all pretty plausible, distance-wise.

As an aside, the greatest timeline mess is Jaime's journey from Harrenhal to King's Landing, which takes from before the Red Wedding (remember he talks with Roose) until after Joffrey's death. It simply doesn't work. (I am very tempted to move the Red Wedding forward in time. But remember that after the Red Wedding, Tyrion and Sansa wed, Oberyn arrives, etc. This is a topic for another thread and another time, though. )

For the present discussion, my above reasoning is enough, and does not appeal to the Red Wedding at all. Gregor's travels are enough to get everything into sync.

Other

The Trident moved, 60 or 70 years ago (IIRC). What happened then? Is this just natural erosion (which certainly happens) or are we to read more into this? Was Summerhall 60 or 70 years ago, by any chance?

As our heroes approach the inn, somebody wonders if the smith is working on another iron dragon. It may be coincidence, but King Robert was "Iron".

Edited by Happy Ent, 13 April 2006 - 11:27 AM.

[Jaehaerys]

Happy Ent,
Not to disagree with you, but Stannis was 'Iron' and Robert 'Rusted Steel'.


Gendry is latter shown in the chapter to be working on a sword.

[Happy Ent]

Jaehaerys, on Apr 13 2006, 19.14, said:

Stannis was 'Iron' and Robert 'Rusted Steel'.

You are right, of course. Silly me.

[Lupigis]

Happy Ent, on Apr 13 2006, 18.27, said:

To be concrete, I have Gregor leaving Harrenhal on the 5th. (Note that this implies still working communication between the Crown and Harrenhal's ravens.) Arya kills the Tickler on the 7th. (Sandor is wounded.) She then leaves Saltpans after six more days of travel (we know that interval, the book says so), on the 13th. Oberyn dies (according to my calculations) on the 12th. That's all pretty plausible, distance-wise.

Thank you! That means that when Brienne sees Gregor limping on the Quiet Isle, approximately three months have passed since he was wounded. That means that he is rather unlikely to recover completely, IMO.

[Happy Ent]

Ouch. I didn't realise until now that Biter's tongue, absurdly long and looking a bit like a sword, is in fact—a sword. I just thought Brienne had read too many Spiderman comics and started to see visions of Venom before she lost consciousness. There really was no reason to browse through the rest of the book to see if there was another Brienne chapter or if she had died.

I just heard this in the audiobook version, and the timing up to "Saphires" is extremely effective. These adrenaline-pumped scenes we often read too fast, and having them narrated makes them a lot better.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Silly question:

Why is Ser Hyle so useless when there's trouble?  Why didn't he do something first when Brienne was fighting Shagwell and co. on Crackclaw Point, and later when she was fighting Rorge?

[rpthomps]

HimOfTwoFaces, on Apr 16 2006, 18.57, said:

Silly question:

Why is Ser Hyle so useless when there's trouble?  Why didn't he do something first when Brienne was fighting Shagwell and co. on Crackclaw Point, and later when she was fighting Rorge?

Good question actually...

maybe he is:

1) not a very good fighter. afraid. unskilled.
2) maybe he doesn't care if Brienne lives or dies. what would this imply?

[Happy Ent]

HimOfTwoFaces, on Apr 17 2006, 01.57, said:

Why is Ser Hyle so useless when there's trouble?  Why didn't he do something first when Brienne was fighting Shagwell and co. on Crackclaw Point, and later when she was fighting Rorge?

In the latter fight, I assume it takes both him and Gendry some time to be armed and armoured. Brienne, it seems, is in full armour all the time, including dinner with the orphans. If Ser Hyle was not armed, he did the right thing: a single, unarmoured man against the outlaws would make little difference.

[Niobe]

Happy Ent, on Apr 13 2006, 17.27, said:

But remember that after the Red Wedding, Tyrion and Sansa wed, Oberyn arrives, etc.

I think Tyrion and Sansa were alredy married before the Red Wedding.

[Lupigis]

HimOfTwoFaces, on Apr 17 2006, 01.57, said:

Silly question:

Why is Ser Hyle so useless when there's trouble?  Why didn't he do something first when Brienne was fighting Shagwell and co. on Crackclaw Point, and later when she was fighting Rorge?

At Cracklaw Point I think it's a combination of cowardice/prudence and lack of commitment to Brienne. Remember that he was sent by Tarly to watch Brienne and see if she found Sansa, and that he wasn't very fond of Brienne to start with. For all he knew, the outlaws could have won, and then he would have been killed along with Brienne, Pod and Nimble Dick. Safer to wait and watch.

At the inn he way well have come as quickly as possible, but as Happy Ent points out, he may have needed time to get into his armour.

[Jon Targaryen]

Brienne 7

We return to the inn once again. It seems the story comes back to the inn again.

I wonder if Weasel made her way to the inn.

Brienne seems to consciously admit to herself that she loves Jaime.

[Lupigis]

Lupigis, on Apr 10 2006, 11.40, said:

I have to check ASOS but between the RW and Sandor's wounding he and Arya spent some time in a mountain village, where Sandor worked at building some sort of defensive structure. I got the impression that they stayed there for quite a long time, but I'm unsure. Anyone know?

I'm answering my own question here: After the Red Wedding, Sandor and Arya travel for some time (at least a week but could be longer). They reach the village in the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon and Sandor works there for more than two weeks. (Evidence: after "a fortnight", Sandor tells Arya that maybe they should stay a while in the village. Then he works some more, but when the pallisade is done he is told he isn't welcome.) Then they travel back for at least a week and end up at the inn where Sandor is wounded.

This could take anything between 4.5 and 7 weeks, IMO. That fits perfectly with the present timeline and doesn't really add any new information, but since I took the trouble to look it up I wanted to post it!  :P

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Happy Ent, on Apr 17 2006, 01.17, said:

In the latter fight, I assume it takes both him and Gendry some time to be armed and armoured.

Lupigis, on Apr 17 2006, 15.01, said:

At Cracklaw Point I think it's a combination of cowardice/prudence and lack of commitment to Brienne.

Good enough for me. :)

[rpthomps]

Trying to figure out if Willow is anyone we have seen before. She is ten years old and has brown hair(or at least dark hair). She would have been about 7-8 when AGoT happened.

[Jon Targaryen]

“Knights are dark and full of terror.” A change to the old saying.

Thoros does not seem pleased with the turn the BWB has taken. Yet he stays. I wonder why he didn’t go with the other faction. Maybe because he feels partly responsible for Stoneheart.

[Barba]

Jon Targaryen, on Jun 4 2006, 18.06, said:

“Knights are dark and full of terror.” A change to the old saying.

Thoros does not seem pleased with the turn the BWB has taken. Yet he stays. I wonder why he didn’t go with the other faction. Maybe because he feels partly responsible for Stoneheart.

I have a theory about this. Brienne will die, and Pod and that knight, And her last word will make Thoros bring her back. He will, of course, die in the procedure.

Edited by Barba, 05 June 2006 - 09:46 AM.

[Tears of Lys]

rpthomps, on Apr 21 2006, 18.43, said:

Trying to figure out if Willow is anyone we have seen before. She is ten years old and has brown hair(or at least dark hair). She would have been about 7-8 when AGoT happened.

I thought Willow was the little girl that was with Arya, Hot Pie, and Gendry when they fled the "foragers"?  She was the whimpering little girl who was picked up by Yoren along with the woman whose arm was off to the elbow who eventually died.   They ended up losing the little girl along the way, and I was happy to see that she managed to live.

I could be way off base here and it's just a name coincidence.  I don't know if the ages match up.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Actually, I don't think we ever learned that little girl's true name.  They named her Weasel, though, not Willow.  Besides which, Willow is only about a year younger than Arya at most, so I think she's too old.

[Paul H]

I think Willow is just Masha Heddle's relative.  Thoros may not know what to do with himself without Beric and with Cat-Lich...

[tomfoster]

Maybe Brienne's last word is "Rhllor!" :)

By the way, this is probably as stupid question but do we know Brienne shouts *only* one word?   Or does it just say "she shouts *a* word, possible followed by twenty or thirty others?   Not that I'm necessarily advocating that, but  . . .