185 replies to this topic

[chris999]

Independent George, on 07 March 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I can see a prologue at the Tower of Joy. That's about the only way I ever want to see Ned again in the story.

I agree, we have enough ressurection in the series as it is. I never want to see Ned again as a person, but I think it would be cool if Howland Reed turns out to be dead, that little birdy Eddard could somehow warn Bran about Jon's parents, or even some evil plot that Varys has constructed and told him in the dungeon before he was beheaded.

Afterwards, the birds conciousness would overcome, and Eddard would be gone forever.

[The Beard]

Independent George, on 07 March 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I can see a prologue at the Tower of Joy. That's about the only way I ever want to see Ned again in the story.

That is probably the only way Ned's "return" could be well written and I'm not even counting on that.  But I trust in GRRM to come up with something convincing and intriguing should he ever wish to bring back my favorite character.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

The Beard, on 07 March 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

That is probably the only way Ned's "return" could be well written and I'm not even counting on that.  But I trust in GRRM to come up with something convincing and intriguing should he ever wish to bring back my favorite character.

Comes back to life as a Dragon Diredragon?

[Greywolf2375]

Ran, on 07 March 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

Lets stay on topic, folks.

Just to look at the OP's question from a perspective outside the books: GRRM has personally and repeatedly cited Ned's execution as the moment that proved he was "playing for keeps" and that well-liked, central characters were not necessarily safe. It's one thing to then go on in the course of the series and provide the occasional fake-out or to resurrect someone as a horrific spirit of vengeance... but he staked a lot on noting the importance of Ned's execution as a fundamental part of the series.

To then back track and say, "Just kidding!" about Ned is simply untenable. So, for that -- and for all the other reasons cited in the thread -- I think we'll just have to accept that Ned's dead.

Just so it wasn't missed, read Ran's post again.

chris999, on 07 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Fair enough. But GRRM could also be blowing smoke up our asses in order to keep his surprise a secret.

How shocked would we be when we open up TWOW, and the first chapter has.... Eddard's name at the top for the POV.

No, that smacks of "HA, GOTCHA!" which, again, GRRM is not trying to do.  How shocked would people be?  Very - because it would be very bad writing.

[Completely Headless Ned]

Ned was one of my favorite charectors, but his death is a nessacery thing to happen. It really would cheapen the effect it has in the first book if he just came back. It also makes stuff like Bran seeing him in the weirwood tree really sad.

[OrcusOfUndeath]

I don't necessarily support this theory, but Varys could have conceivably paid the Faceless men to bring in one of their own to take the hit for an obscene amout of money. One problem with this is that it could be that the Faceless Men can only take forms of dead people.

Alternatively: the magic in ASoIaF seems to work like clerics in Dungeons and Dragons. A certain deity grants you spells from their domain. A sorcerer worshiping Many Faced God or another unknown deity could conceivably alter a man's appearance to match Neds, and alter Neds to match that of another. Afterwards he could escape the city unopposed and leave across the Narrow Sea.

I hope I am not getting something wrong here. I haven't read all the books.

EDIT: I have just gotten the info that it is in fact possible to alter a man appearance with sorcery. (A Dance with Dragons)

Edited by OrcusOfUndeath, 03 April 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Ekkoe]

I don't have much to add, but I just wanted to give my two cents.

I've read up on the theory of who Jon Snow's parents are and the leading candidates, in my (and I think most people's opinion) are Rheagar and Lyanna. Ned promises his dying sister that "her remains will be taken to Winterfell", a promise he made when she was "on a bed of blood and roses". Ned never wants to discuss who is mother is and says "He's my blood, that's all you need to know". "Blood", not son. Its barely even subtle: I think somewhere along the way they even mention a baby. ( http://www.westeros...._Snows_parents/ )

So at first I thought that just added to Ned's greatness. He is honorable, so honorable that he would bear the blame of this sin to protect his sister's boy. But then I realised that this bastard son, this slip of his honor, might be the only thing  keeping Ned from being a, as they call it, "Mary Sue": an overly principled character that can't do anything wrong and therefore, over time, becomes uninteresting. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue )

But there's a difference between your average Mary Sue and Lord Eddard Stark. Namely: Ned's dead. GRRM killed off his Mary Sue, much like he regretted Tolkien not killing of his: Gandalf. Now Tolkien's story arguably  had more Mary Sues than just Gandalf, but that's besides the point.

I think the doubt we see in the character reflects our own doubt and disbelief regarding Ned's death. He was their father, their God and now they're just hopeless children trying to get their things together. Ned's death is exactly what makes ASoFaI superior to most previous fantasy stories: it gives us the hopeless feeling we recognize, that feeling we get when we see humanity blunder again and again. ( http://oll.libertyfu...=html&Itemid=27 )

That's my two cents. To me, ASoFaI has a sense of value and melancholy because the only hero in supposed tale of heroes is dead.

Edited by Ekkoe, 25 April 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Jayaris]

Clearly Ned warged into the Dragon at Winterfell and is on his way to save his cripple son.

[James Arryn]

WTF?

[DarkSnow]

There's no way Eddard will be back for a POV. Hes dead. Just because he was Honorable doesn't mean he should survive, he didn't know how to play the game. The plot would be weakened if he was revealed to be alive in some complex plan that Varys' is using in his play for the throne. I don't doubt Varys could find a faceless man to be killed for Lord stark, theres plenty of ways he could convince one but that doesn't change the fact that no one thought that Joffery was going to kill his betrothed father.

[998]

Jaqen H'ghar is Ned.
Yeah.

(I know that is absurd, but I've only read through aSoS so I don't know who H'ghar truly is.)

[Sphinx The Riddle]

Ned warged into illyn. it is known

[JoonBoy]

I do believe he might have been switched with one of these men who "could change their face as others change their clothes"

[Grip]

Ned is dead, having him alive would severely weaken the story imo. It was perhaps the first real shocker of the series, in parts it showed what we were in for in future books. And for those thinking, or hoping, he might still be alive lets just remember the state he was in when he was executed. He would likely have lost his leg, possibly dying in the process. Regardless he wouldnt be running around as he used to, the old steady Ned would be gone even assuming he did survive his execution (heh).

Edited by Grip, 06 June 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Sir Omkar]

GRRM should bring back. Even if he has to put in some retarded theory...

Edited by Sir Omkar, 08 June 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Eddard Snow]

Here's a thought, someone could return Eddard's (and even Robert's!) bones and head to the Land of Always Winter, and make them White Walkers! Perhaps Lady Stoneheart could do it. But my personal thought, Beric Dondarrionm should have had HIM ressurected, not boring ol' Catelyn!

[Serie]

Eddard_Targaryen, on 10 June 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

Here's a thought, someone could return Eddard's (and even Robert's!) bones and head to the Land of Always Winter, and make them White Walkers! Perhaps Lady Stoneheart could do it. But my personal thought, Beric Dondarrionm should have had HIM ressurected, not boring ol' Catelyn!

white walkers, no I don't think so. Wights maybe but still I'm not sure if the bones alone are enough.
I think there's a passage where Arya asks if Thoros can resurrect a beheaded man and he says something like "let it go kid".

[Mediumjon Umber]

Ned, it rhymes with dead!

So, no. Bringing him back would defeat the whole point GRRM is trying to make with his characters: that all men die. Even the most heroic and brave men are just as likely to die as the common folk, and death is often pointless and tragic.

[Trinket2]

Maybe they beheaded a faceless man who had taken Ned's face? It makes perfect sense! They had Syrio, he was a FM, Varys switched him for Ned, and Ned is still alive and happily travelling to Dany, he just hasn't reached her yet...

No, just kidding. Ned's dead, baby. And good riddance. I seriously hope he stays that way. I've had enough of people being resurrected or just seeming to die.

Edited by Trinket2, 10 June 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[ScotiaNova]

Ned's dead baby . . . but if I were to think of a way to bring him back . . .
The POV Stark children (maybes not the wolfless Sansa?) all have varying degrees of Warging ability up to and including taking control of a lackwit . . .
Eddard quantum leapt into Illyn Payne at the last moment and as Illyn can't speak, read or write it isn't difficult to pass himself as the original . . .
He works quietly (can he get any quieter?) in the background making sure Sansa will be okay, short of taking Joff's head, and not doing a very good job at it.
He then does a RoadTrip with his new mucker Jaime once Sansa is safe with his old mate Petyr.
FanWank, I know, but the only spoiling this theory is [b]NED'S DEAD, BABY!{/B]