245 replies to this topic

[The Young Lion]

Hi

After reading through this thread, and updating my site with the relevant information, I was curious as to which fighters you would place in yout top tier, second tier and lower tier.

I will compile the data and results and put them on my site with the relevant placement for each fighter mentioned.

My List:

Top Tier:
Syrio Forrel, Robert Baratheon , Gregor Clegane , Sandor Clegane, Jaime Lannister, Arthur Dayne , Gerold Hightower, Barristan Selmy,Oberyn Martell, Rhaegar Targaryen, Garlan Tyrell , Loras Tyrell,Brienne of Tarth

Second Tier:
Areo Hotah , Brynden Tully , Greatjon Umber, Smalljon Umber ,
Bronn , Shagga, Timmet, Khal Drogo, Strong Belwas, Randyl Tarly,Thoros, Jon Snow, Victarion Greyjoy , Lyn Corbray , Gerold Dayne


Update

Thanks to everyone thats contributed toi the discussion, great stuff!

I am in the process of updating my site with a page of analysis from everyones posts in this thread, here is the link:

http://home.urban.ne...uin/toptier.htm

Its a work in progress, i have been busy and will update it as i go.
Keep posting your lists if you havent done so :)


The Hound

Edited by The Hound, 11 December 2005 - 12:38 AM.

[Analu]

Who's Gerold Dayne? If he's the Darkstar, you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt, Hound. See the Darkstar hate threads if you don't believe me.

As for your list, I would agree, except I would flipflop Hotah and Brienne. She fought Jaime to a draw under tenuous circumstances: he was shackled and had been imprisoned for months. I'd put in her the seond, maybe third tier.

[Jonjamin]

Jon Snow would be butchered by Areo or Victarion.

Also I don't know if Rhaegar would be a top tier fighter. Didn't Barristan say that Rhaegar was "able"? (I don't really remember)

[Overlord]

1.  Arthur Dayne
2.  Gregor Clegane (you said fighter, not duellist)
2a. Sandor Clegane
3.  Jaime Lannister
3a.  Young Barristan Selmy
4.   Robert Baratheon
4a.  Rhaegar Targaryen
5.  Willas Tyrell
6.  Loras Tyrell
7.  Brienne
8.  Bronn

It gets hazy after a while.

[Jesatria]

I'd say put Drogo in the top tier. He may not do too good against an armored Westerosi knight, but he was unbeatable in his own element. Never defeated in combat in a society where combat was pretty much a daily affair is pretty impressive.

[hobomagic]

Overlord, on Dec 8 2005, 01.52, said:

1.  Arthur Dayne
2.  Gregor Clegane (you said fighter, not duellist)
2a. Sandor Clegane
3.  Jaime Lannister
3a.  Young Barristan Selmy
4.   Robert Baratheon
4a.  Rhaegar Targaryen
5.  Willas Tyrell
6.  Loras Tyrell
7.  Brienne
8.  Bronn

It gets hazy after a while.

I really don't think brienne gets to be up there, we hear her talk about how she was barely able to keep a much weakened jaime off of her and her memories about her trainer.  Like it or not she IS a woman, and the rest of these are fairly young and rather strong men, it puts her at a disadvantage.  I mean, she's probably at least as skilled, probably more skilled, than most of them, but she still has a physical disadvantage.

[blackbull1685]

Don't dismiss Brenne for her sex, you forget she won the melee at Bitterbridge.  With over 100 combatants including the some of the best in the south (except Dorne).  Besides, read her phisical discription.  I see her at 6'3" 215lbs. easy, she's bigger than most of the guys listed.

[Aman Groan]

In the fight with Jaime, Brienne was also handicapped by the fact that she needed to keep him alive, so she therefore couldn't attack at full strength.

[Milz]

1. Arthur Dayne
2. Young Barristen Selmy
3. Syrio Forel
4. Robert Baratheon
5. Jaime Lannister with his right
6. Sandor Clegane
7. Obyren Martell
8. Gregor Clegane
9. Bronn
10. Loras Tyrell
11. Andrik the Unsmiling

I chose Obyren over the Cleganes because he had Gregor beaten but for a stuid mistake. Gregor killed the man but you would have to say Obyren won the fight. I back Sandor above Gregor becuase while Gregor's physical attributes just about dominate all but the best of fighters he is more of a butcher where as Sandor is a more capable swordsmen. He is also fitter and faster. Bronn needs to be there and I guess I'm taking Loras on his merit. Andrik ran amok when the Ironborn raided the south and Robert was considered awesome with his warhammer.

1. Victarion Greyjoy
2. Rhaegar
3. Khal Drogo
4. Mandon Moore
5. Balon Swann
6. Arys Oakheart
7. Qhorin Halfhand
8. Iron Emmet
9. Brienne
10. Strong Belwas
11. Jon Snow

In the short time we saw Victarion he seemed like a very good fighter. Rhaegar was considered very good but I don't believe he was among the greats. Khal drogo is a great warrior I'm sure and the only reason I see him down among the second tier would be his refusal to wear armour. Brienne is good but come on guys she wouldn't stand against any that I named in the first tier, I named Jon Snow much for what he may become as to what he is now. I know I have probably forgotten many but do not take that too seriously as I'm sure they would just slot in among those that are above, it is not because I think they are not worthy.

[Judge Chez]

Jaime just kept taunting and taunting Brienne until she started fighting all out, which was near the end i think, and even then she could only barely keep his blade away.

And maybe after DWD Jon will be in the top 10 forsure, but as of now i doubt he is there.  Loras Tyrell is overrated too, his brother Garlan (everyone agrees) is a much better sword then him, even Loras says he is, id put Garlan among the top 5 forsure...even though we havnt seen him fight yet u cant rule someone out who trains against 3 ppl i mean come on now.

[AnonymousMan]

Where's Eddard Stark?  I always figured he was not a braggart like some of the others mentioned, but he did whoop up on Arthur Dayne, whom many consider the greatest fighter in the realm.  Or was Eddard able to defeat Dayne because Howland Reed was there poking Dayne in the back with his three-pronged frog spear thing while Eddard attacked head on?

I guess I consider Eddard to be more of a great battle strategist than an individual warrior, but you gotta respect the man who slew Dayne.

[Cynon]

From the top of my head. I may have forgotten someone. Placement within tier is random.

10 first tier
Areo Hotah - seems extremely confident in his abilities, and the kind of man who knows his limits
Arthur Dayne - by reputation a legendary knight
Barristan - even at his age he dispatches his enemies with ease
Jaime - probably one of the best in westeros of his time
Andrik - has the reputation as one of the best fighters of the ironborn
Victarion - no fear, no mercy
Gregor - an insane killing monster
Oberyn - extremely skilled and clever fighter
Garlan - by reputation one of the best. Fought bravely in Renly's Armour
The White Bull - by reputation a legendary knight

10 second tier
Sandor - is able to hold his own against Gregor
Drogo - undeafeated in a society were combat is life
Strong Belwas - seems extremely confident in his abilites
Robert - slayed Rhaeger, and was a extremely strong warrior
Syrio - unknown factor, but impressed a knightsguard with his wooden stick
Loras - a legend at the age of 16
Gerold Dayne - most dangerous man in Dorne (though dangerous doesn't mean skilled)
Brienne - held her own against Jaime in chains and won Renly's melee against several worthy opponents
Rhaegar - by reputation a talented warrior that gave Robert a good fight before he was killed
Bronn - cunning fighter who will do anything to survive

There are a lot of unknown factors however, so it is hard to say. A lot of fighters we only know by reputations and against lesser foes.

Edited by Cynon, 08 December 2005 - 10:40 AM.

[Andhaira]

I think Drogo should be first tier...remember, Oberyn also fought with 'almost' no armor. And he whooped gregor completely, if not for underestimating gregors tenacitya t the very end. (Even then  the viper did win; gregor was in pain for weeks before finally dying, after which qyburn brought his corpse back to unlife and srated melding him with women, or whatever he was doing)

ALso, is Andrik the weilder of Nightfall, who defeated 7 knights in single combat? IF so then he is first tier definately.

Yoren should be there, probably second tier. Qhoroin and Bronn should be frst tier. Randyll Tarly should be at least second tier.

[madkasel]

Good lists and discussion. Can't add much to it, except to thank Milz for including the legendary Halfhand.

Brienne is capable, I'm sure, but doesn't belong on any list.

Wish we had a better description of what went down at the Tower of Joy. Eddard must've been awesome. Howland Reed survived it, too, and saved Eddard's life there, so might merit consideration for the list after we meet him.

[Bran's Muffin]

Quote

5. Willas Tyrell

Are you sure you don't mean Garlan Tyrell?

My top ten (not in order):
1. Barristan Selmy, young and old
2. Arthur Dayne, when alive, obviously
3. Jaime Lannister, when he had two hands
4. Gerold Hightower, when alive
5. Robert Baratheon, when not too fat for his armor
6. Gregor Clegane, grudingly
7. Sandor Clegane, bugger you!
8. Aero Hotah, probably when younger but he's still tough now
9. Oberyn, not dead
10. Garlan Tyrell, Loras is flashier, but I'd rather have Garlan in battle.

[The sword of the morning]

First tier

Arthur Dayne
Robert
Gerold Hightower
Jaime
the Cleganes
Drogo
Brandon
Selmy

Second Tier

Hotah
Darkstar
Rhaegar
Victarion

[Blackstone]

I rise up to protest silly lists, here are three of my reasons:

Bronn
Lothar Brune
Strong Belwas

Low-born scum.  Barely knights (I think Dany had Belwas knighted).  Unknown to practically the entire planet.  Stone cold killahs.

[Andhaira]

The sword of the morning, on Dec 8 2005, 11.40, said:

First tier

Arthur Dayne
Robert
Gerold Hightower
Jaime
the Cleganes
Drogo
Brandon
Selmy

Second Tier

Hotah
Darkstar
Rhaegar
Victarion

You have Brandon there but not the viper? Lets see, bran beats littlefinger...and oberyn beats gregor clegane. Hmm.  :unsure:

Oh and by the way, what about Raymond Royce? He held his own pretty well against the other until his sword shattered. :cool:

[youper]

I would take Howland Reed over any of them .... in the swamps near Greywater Watch.

My point being that it always depends on situation and location.


There has been some discussion of Jon being a future great. Are there others who could become great later in the story?

My list:
Jon
Arya
Bran/Hodor
Gendry
Eddard Dayne
Meera Reed

Any others?

[Perin Stone]

Brienne is very capable, but I don't think she can rate in the top 10 in any list of the best fighters.  A fit, unfettered Jaime would have beat her easily based on her own thoughts.  In the melee she won she was extremely mad at her "suitors" and took it out on them.  She also took out her anger on Loras since he had roses on his shield.  Granted, it wasn't a small feat, but I don't think that puts her in Gregor's class.

And if success in a melee is grounds for being a great fighter than Robert needs to be in any list also.  He won a lot more of them than Brienne...