NFL Thread II

[Caliban]

The Bears are who Stego thinks the Pats are.

[Kalbear]

Is this my penance for deriding CB and Rockroi and all the other annoying Pats fans over the years - that I get saddled with Caliban?

Like WJ, I take no credit or blame for the actions of Caliban and do not share his opinions of the Bears, Grossman, or the superbowl shuffle.

[Mexal]

Cincinatti Bengals. The other side of the coin from the Ravens. Flashy offense, serviceable defense, peppered with some shady characters. This team feels like the Colts from 2000 or 2002. Lots of points, lots of shootouts, but coming up short in the end. Like the Colts, I think this team needs a coaching change to take the next step, but they are likely playoff bound.

Offensively, you really can't ask for more than talent than Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson, Housh, and Rudi Johnson at the skill positions. The line's been dinged up, but they are a very good unit.

On defense, injuries and retirements make 2007 a rebuilding year for the unit. I don't expect them to break the top-20 for defensive teams.

2007 Record: 11-5 (and that's the best they can do, I think. A critical injury will make them into the 2001 Colts that went 6-10 without Edge)

I agree with you on pretty much everything. I do think the defense can be vastly improve this year though. Deltha seems to play every other year and just 2 years ago, he was a pro bowl corner with 10 interceptions. He has something to prove after last year and I can see him playing much better, especially when he knows he can lose his starting spot to Hall. Leon Hall was a great draft pick and in camp, he has looked phenominal. JoJo is back and practicing and if he can just work on his hands, I wouldn't be surprised to see 8+ interceptions. He had the most passes defended in the league last year but zero interceptions. I like Madieu Williams and Jackson to play well this year. Williams has looked great in the pre-season after a lackluster season. If he's back to rookie year form, he'll be stellar.

Our linebacking core is shaking up. Ahmad Brooks in the middle with Hartwell and Jeanty on the outside. We have depth with Landon Johnson, Calib Miller and Lemar Marshall. Not the greatest core but a lot of potential.

The defensive line is the major problem as we can never get any damn pressure on the QB. Peko will have a year experience under his belt and if he plays better than last year, look out. Geathers is signed to a long term contract so hopefully he can add 10+ sacks like last year. Smith is Justin Smith. I mean, he's a high motor guy with ok skills. Solid but not great.

The biggest problem this defense faces is scheme. Our DC sucks ass and I hope to hell they fire him after this year. I wish Marvin would take a stronger hand on the defense but he seems to like keeping himself at arms length.

Last year, our biggest problem on offense was the inconsistency of Palmer and the offensive line. With Jones and Anderson not practicing, we might have some of those problems again. But I think we'll be ok. We got good depth with Andrews and Whitworth and Ghaichuc has another year under his belt to learn. Palmer is back to 100% and he looks on point with CJ and TJ. He's off with Tab Perry but it's not something that will last. Palmer is used to Chris Henry and they're obviously on a different timing pattern. Let Perry get a few more snaps with Palmer and I think he'll be just as effective as Henry. The biggest loss this offense faces besides Henry is Irons. He was our change of pace back and much needed in third down situations. But it looks like Rudi has been working on his hands in the offseason because he has been catching everything. Should be interesting to see if he can play some third down packages or if they'll throw to him out of the backfield more on some playaction passes.

I don't think the Bengals need a head coach change but the DC should be fired and I'd love to see Bratkowski be more creative. He has the tools he just fails to utilize them a lot of times and I hate to see that. All in all, I see 11-5 written all over this team. They just need to get through the first 6 games.

[Jaime L]

The issue I have with all of these projections (and most projections) is, gosh, they look remarkably like last year. Teams that were good are still good and teams that were bad are worse. But how often does that happen in the NFL? The one truth of this league is times are a-changing: And the first one now will later be last.

I make no projections about the NFC east. I think it's a crapshoot and I'm too biased to be objective. But the AFC North? I say the Steelers win the division. This team isn't all that different from the one that won 15 games 3 years ago, and won the Superbowl two years ago. They had a Murphy's Law season last year. They'll be back. I think the Ravens offense will regress with age, and while I think the Bengals will be good they won't be better than the Steelers. Roethlisberger was once a good QB and can be again. Plus the Browns had a nightmare year last year. I don't think they'll be walkovers. They have to better, right? Right?! I dunno, my drunken sense, is screaming Steelers. I'm goin with them.

[Mexal]

The issue I have with all of these projections (and most projections) is, gosh, they look remarkably like last year. Teams that were good are still good and teams that were bad are worse. But how often does that happen in the NFL? The one truth of this league is times are a-changing: And the first one now will later be last.

I make no projections about the NFC east. I think it's a crapshoot and I'm too biased to be objective. But the AFC North? I say the Steelers win the division. This team isn't all that different from the one that won 15 games 3 years ago, and won the Superbowl two years ago. They had a Murphy's Law season last year. They'll be back. I think the Ravens offense will regress with age, and while I think the Bengals will be good they won't be better than the Steelers. Roethlisberger was once a good QB and can be again. Plus the Browns had a nightmare year last year. I don't think they'll be walkovers. They have to better, right? Right?! I dunno, my drunken sense, is screaming Steelers. I'm goin with them.

When exactly was Roethlisberger ever a good QB? He's been solid as a starter sure, but he had the defense and running game to back him up. He threw for 20-25 times a game when they won 15 games and the super bowl and he was horrendous in the super bowl itself. Explain to me exactly when he has EVER shown that he could be the focal point of the team and could carry the team when necessary.

The Browns will have a better team, maybe. They'll end up putting in Quinn midway through the season and that'll pretty much end it. They're NEVER walkovers when playing within the AFC North. That doesn't mean they're going to win games though. It just means they'll be tough competition.

The division is a three team race. Any of the Bengals, Steelers or Ravens could take the division. My heart leans toward the Bengals as I'm as big a Bengals fan as you'll find. But that doesn't mean I'm blinded to the Steelers and Ravens strengths.

[Analu]

Watching the Niners vs Bears right now, and the Niners look terrible. What the fuck is Hostler doing with his playcalling? He's had Smith throw the ball 3 times the entire first half and had our backups, Hicks and Robinson, carry the ball at least 89 times. If this is what Niners fans have to look forward to this season, we'll all be praying Norv fails with SD so he can come back and call plays.

And our defense looks terrible. Anytime a team can make Grossman look good, that's not a good sign of things to come.

OK, back to the BBQ and the second half. More brilliant analysis to come...

[Andrik the Unsmiling]

The only thing I have to say about the Niners v. Bears game is thank God it's still preseason. The whole team just came out completely flat-- other than Patrick Willis, who looked pretty good from what I saw.

[Jaime L]

When exactly was Roethlisberger ever a good QB? He's been solid as a starter sure, but he had the defense and running game to back him up. He threw for 20-25 times a game when they won 15 games and the super bowl and he was horrendous in the super bowl itself. Explain to me exactly when he has EVER shown that he could be the focal point of the team and could carry the team when necessary.

Hmm, when was that...when was that? Oh, that's right. It was when he won a superbowl. Oh, wait, that doesn't work..? Because he had a bad game against the Seahawks? Ok, how about when he won his first 15 games as a starter? I'm sorry. People think you could put some schmo in there,and have the same results. No, he was the one who beat the Bengals, Colts and Broncos. He was the guy who got them there. They deride him because he struggled in the Superbowl. Just like people deride McNabb because of the same deal. It's ridiculous. They don't even sniff that kind of glory without their respective QBs.

I said he was a good QB and can be again. Not great, not game-changing. Just good. Explain to me exactly how one of the winningest QBs in the game today, has somehow never been good? Cause, honestly, just sounds like sour grapes.

[BLU-RAY]

Despite that, I still think the Ravens will win the division, but I think the Steelers will take 2nd, and a wildcard spot.

I really, really don't trust the Bengals. Like, at all.

[Jaxom 1974]

Like WJ, I take no credit or blame for the actions of Caliban and do not share his opinions of the Bears, Grossman, or the superbowl shuffle.

I stand with Kal and WJ here. (Though I'm still willing to give Grossman a couple games into the season, though I say that having ZERO idea what happened in the pre-season game tonight.)

[Fez]

It's starting to look like we have a QB battle going on now, and I'm not sure what to think. I have always liked Pennington, and have defended him against the naysayers, and this is only the preseason; but so far he isn't looking that great, and Clemens although only playing against backups has looked might impressive, and after all it's backups with him too. I think Pennington will be starting, and I hope he is, but if we don't start strong out of the gate I think a lot of fans will be calling for Clemens to take over.

On the Kendell thing, I wish the situation had never arose, but since it did I'm glad he's gone rather then being a canker in the club house. However he was a good player and it seems like the org. was rather bullheaded about this.

[Mexal]

Hmm, when was that...when was that? Oh, that's right. It was when he won a superbowl. Oh, wait, that doesn't work..? Because he had a bad game against the Seahawks? Ok, how about when he won his first 15 games as a starter? I'm sorry. People think you could put some schmo in there,and have the same results. No, he was the one who beat the Bengals, Colts and Broncos. He was the guy who got them there. They deride him because he struggled in the Superbowl. Just like people deride McNabb because of the same deal. It's ridiculous. They don't even sniff that kind of glory without their respective QBs.

I said he was a good QB and can be again. Not great, not game-changing. Just good. Explain to me exactly how one of the winningest QBs in the game today, has somehow never been good? Cause, honestly, just sounds like sour grapes.

Not really. Go look at his stats. He had a running game that was consistently in the top 5. He had a defense that was top 5. His offensive line was one of the best in the league. His TEAM was good. He was just there to hand the ball off and occassionally make a decent throw on third down.

In his first 2 seasons, he averaged 21 and 22 pass attempts a game. When a QB can do that, it means that the team has a very very good running game and a very very good defense. They're not relying on him to win the game, just throw a few well timed passes after everything was set up. They'd enter the 4th quarter with a lead and just run the ball. I bet if I found stats for how many passes he threw in the second half of a game, I'd see it was down near 4-7. That doens't make him a good QB.

Then you take a look at last year where he threw 31 attempts per game. He had 23 interceptions to 18 TDs and was sub 60% completion percentage.

When you say that Ben can once again be good, what you're saying is the team around him will once again be good because Ben, no matter how many wins or losses he has, has not proven that he can be a solid QB. If you put any QB in that system during those years, I think they would have done just as well. The team didn't ask much of him and as a result, they won. When they asked a lot from him, they lost.

[Jaime L]

Ben, no matter how many wins or losses he has, has not proven that he can be a solid QB.

Wait, what?

If you put any QB in that system during those years, I think they would have done just as well.

Objectively, this is ridiculous. There's a reason he's starting. Charlie Batch had a nice start. Maddox had a nice year, but Big Ben is in there because he's proven that he can do everything that is necessary to maximize their chances to win.

His Passer rater in '04 was 98.1. His passer rating in '05 was 98.6. How, precisely, is this not good? Cause you lost me. You say any passer could do the same in this system because they have a good running game and defense. Put Jon Kitna in there, see how much they win. Until last year, all the guy did was win. Yes he had nice running game and a nice defense, which helps, but a QB still has to be good to keep defenses honest and keep putting points on the board. Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Jerome Bettis are nice players...but they ain't exactly world beaters. You still need a good QB to win a Superbowl, to go 15-1, to win multiple playoff games. End of story. To say they accomplished all this without even a solid QB...? I mean I understand you hate the Steelers, division rival and all, but you're more than a little out there on this.

No, he hasn't had to hoist his team on his back to win games. He hasn't had to be Carson Palmer, but somehow he's punished for that? I wonder what you would've thought of Phil Simms in his day. Sure, he sucked last year. That's exactly my point. Hence, the line, he was a good player and can be again. Not sure why this is a controversial statement at all.

[Darkostar]

Okay, so I think Brooks Bollinger would be better off as a walmart greeter right now.

But the plus side is that if Bobby Wade doesn't pan out as a WR, he can be our starting QB.

[Caliban]

But the plus side is that if Bobby Wade doesn't pan out as a WR

This actually already happened.

[add-on]

(Though I'm still willing to give Grossman a couple games into the season, though I say that having ZERO idea what happened in the pre-season game tonight.)

He had a really good half, I thought. The botched snap thing is starting to get a little ridiculous, but hopefully they'll be able to correct that before the regular season. The intereception doesn't really bother me, either. That kind of play can and does happen to every QB in the league. Walt Harris made a good play, end of story.

What does bother me is how much last night's game reminded of the game before the Bears played the Cardinals last year (against the Bills?). The offense played great that game and Rex had a good day, but it was the first time I noticed how sloppy his technique can be. He was all over the place that game: throwing off his back foot, across his body while scrambling, into crowds, etc. But his receivers kept coming down with the ball that day. I felt like I was watching the same kind of thing last night.

One play in particular was the Berrian touchdown. I've never seen such lazy technique from a quarterback. He wasn't under pressure or anything, but ended up throwing off his backfoot. The reason the Bears scored was because Berrian made a damn good move, and the corner fell down. Still, you could tell the technique affected the throw by how long Berrian had to wait for the ball. That kind of laziness is going to come back to hurt the Bears the same way it did last year.

I see a repeat of last year for Grossman. Sometimes his talent will be enough to overcome bad technique and poor decision making, sometimes it won't. Bold prediction, I know. Thing is, the good will be enough for the coaching staff to keep their "faith" in him, and he'll end up probably holding the Bears back for another year. Not that I think Griese's the answer. I have no answers.

[EHK for Darwin]

Was actually at the Colts game yesterday. (Bachelor is a Colts fan. A Colts shirt was part of the Bachelor party uniform/attire for the game. I still wore a Bears hat.) And while I didn't watch too intently, the offense appears to be running as smooth as expected. Peyton can do no wrong. Spreads the ball out and recievers are earning their paychecks as well. Didn't stay in long, but enough to completely demolish the VERY inept Detroit Lyons. Moved down to better seats after the half. (we were up against the back wall in the highest row.) Got (bachelor did) picture taken with former Colts cheerleaders. (claimed to have cheered in the Superbowl. Hot enough to be believable) Left with about 5 minutes left and 3rd string scrubs in.

No real insights. Colts looked good. Detroit looked bad. Exactly as expected. Starting to get very excited about the regular season. Since I don't have Sunday ticket this year, praying that the off (Non-Bears) channel shows some good matchups and that both networks use both the noon and 3pm timeslots for games. But even if I'm shorted a bit, we at least one AFC game per Sunday (they always play at least one) along with the Bears game covering the NFC slot, Sunday night and Monday night football...I should have enough to sustain me.

[grozeng]

The Skins have a completely veteran offensive-line. 5-10 year guys all and the leaders of the offense. From what you say, I think he'll fit in well with the Dirtbags. Sounds like he was a leader there. If he's anything like Randy Thomas, also from the Jets, I'll be ecstatic.

Yeah, Randy Thomas was probably better (younger and more potential), but Kendall is damn good too.

[Caliban]

Grossman showed on Sat night just how talented he is and the type of quarterback he could be. He showed how special he can be. He needs to limit these mistakes. Often 90% of the game he looks as good as any quarterback that has ever played the position. The issue is that when Grossman makes a mistake, it is absolutely atrocious. I mean, the guy cant seem to throw an interception that doesnt go for six. Its weird. He picks the worst moments to look like a chump. Thats why everybody thinks he blows. Honestly, if you watch entire Bears games you cant help but see the skill, the talent, the brilliance that Grossman brings to the gridiron. His talent is indisputable, his competitiveness unmatched. Simply by addressing the center, he makes an offense dangerous, he puts the defense on edge; the field is now his. With an arm that can spread the field, and a guile so fearless that one pass can break the back of an SEC powerhouse, simply put the greatest sophomore quarterback in the history of college football; the greatest pure passer in the history of the college game; rewrote the recordbooks, defied all expectation. Just a kid in central Indiana, poorly recruited and brought by his father to the University of Florida, bum rushed the office of Steve Spurrior and said "give me a chance, old ball coach, I can play" and of course the rest is found in the record books. If Phat Fullmer wasnt a criminal and the Heisman voting bloc wasnt a group of Erik Crouch loving idiots, Grossman would be a national champ and a heisman winner. If the skies didnt erupt in a monsoon that horrible day, Grossman would be a Super Bowl winner and MVP, damn you mother nature, damn you storm clouds, damn you sky. But Grossman has played on, and yes, he will silence the jealous haters, he will win the Super Bowl. Grossman is a special talent, and will prevail.

[Lord O' Bones]

And Caliban finally reveals that he is a sportswriter for The Onion.