400 replies to this topic

[Horus Bergeron]

VikingBeard, on Oct 21 2007, 12.42, said:

I read on Yahoo! that the UFC signed Brock Lesnar

They announced it during the fight last night, but it's been a virtual lock for over a month now.  They just made it official.


BTW that av is pretty dumb.  I wanna say more about it, but dumb is the only word that comes to mind.

[childe roland]

Horus-CK1, on Oct 21 2007, 02.52, said:

So was I, it seemed like he didn't have a plan to counteract Sylvia's size adv.  He was just walking into those standing clinches for the entire night.  205 seems like a good home for him.  Consider the fact that Rampage, as big and as strong as he is, has said time and again that he won't venture into "Sasquatch territory"

With that said, I was 4-1 on my picks tonight including my all-time MMA hero Anderson Silva in a rout.
War Silva!

really looked like silva felt bad about the beatdown.  where does franklin go from here?

[BLU-RAY]

Are Anderson and Wanderlei Silva related?  I know it's a common enough last name; but they're from the same town, and they're a little over a year apart and everything.

[Analu]

DVD ROTS, on Oct 21 2007, 12.56, said:

Are Anderson and Wanderlei Silva related?  I know it's a common enough last name; but they're from the same town, and they're a little over a year apart and everything.

Can't tell if this is a joke or not, but if it's not, you've never seen Anderson and Wandy before, have you? They're not related.


Didn't have a chance to watch the whole card, but managed to catch all of the Franklin destruction and part of the Sylvia fight. Vera didn't look good. Anderson's just ridiculous. He's so much better than any 185er in the UFC right now. And having done a little Muay Thai back when I was in high school, I like seeing someone in the UFC with his Muay Thai skills. Hendo should move down and challenge him. I know he wants to stay at 205, but I'd give him the only UFC fighter who could give the Spider a real fight right now. That'd be a helluva fight.

As for the Lesnar signing, I hope DW doesn't just give him cans. I say give him to Minotauro to snack on

[BLU-RAY]

MakahaBoy, on Oct 21 2007, 20.46, said:

Can't tell if this is a joke or not, but if it's not, you've never seen Anderson and Wandy before, have you? They're not related.
Didn't have a chance to watch the whole card, but managed to catch all of the Franklin destruction and part of the Sylvia fight. Vera didn't look good. Anderson's just ridiculous. He's so much better than any 185er in the UFC right now. And having done a little Muay Thai back when I was in high school, I like seeing someone in the UFC with his Muay Thai skills. Hendo should move down and challenge him. I know he wants to stay at 205, but I'd give him the only UFC fighter who could give the Spider a real fight right now. That'd be a helluva fight.

As for the Lesnar signing, I hope DW doesn't just give him cans. I say give him to Minotauro to snack on

I've seen Wanderlei fight, not Anderson.  You're right, though, after looking at pictures.  Not related. Oops.

[Horus Bergeron]

Real good story on Anderson Silva on ESPN.com.  Included is how he's had to deal with beating a popular champ several times in their own country while being booed.  It talks about how he met the Noguieras among other things.  Real good article.  


No wonder he was so stoic and calm out there in a hostile crowd; he's been in that same exact position at many points in his career.

[Oorag]

I was hoping to see the MacDonald-Okami fight in the broadcast, but looking at the recap it didn't sound very exciting. Oh well, I was pushing for MacDonald.

I would actuallly like to see a Kongo/Sylvia fight. Kongo is so big, Sylvia won't be able to throw his weight around as much.

And I don't think Anderson Silva is ever going to be beat again. That guy is unreal.

[Horus Bergeron]

Oorag, on Oct 22 2007, 23.58, said:

I was hoping to see the MacDonald-Okami fight in the broadcast, but looking at the recap it didn't sound very exciting. Oh well, I was pushing for MacDonald.

From what I heard, it's the last fight on Okami's contract which is probably why the fight could have included kung fu theatre type flying, a decapitated limb, and an appearance by the Virgin Mary and there still would have been no way it would have been televised.

Sad since he seemed the natural next-in-line to contend for the title and Silva really wanted a little payback for that BS disqualification.

Oorag, on Oct 22 2007, 23.58, said:

I would actuallly like to see a Kongo/Sylvia fight. Kongo is so big, Sylvia won't be able to throw his weight around as much.

What sparked Tim's sudden hatred of Cheick Kongo.  Is he trying to throw his weight around now that Randy's gone?  Anyway, Tim is definitely going to get a matchup out of that one.  Plus Kongo doesn't have to worry about his suspect ground game being tested.

Oorag, on Oct 22 2007, 23.58, said:

And I don't think Anderson Silva is ever going to be beat again. That guy is unreal.

For once I can find something that me and DW agree on.  Anderson Silva is the number one P4P fighter in the world at this moment in time.

[Voland]

Anderson Silva is fucking scary! And awesome to watch. He singlehandedly carried that card imo. Vera vs Sylvia was a joke, probably a lot due to the fact that Vera broke his hand in the first. I was wondering why he hardly threw any punches in the third. The Bonner fight was pretty good. Glad to see him back and winning.

Oh, and DW just announced Wandy vs. Chuck. While I'm not as excited to see it after chuck's lackluster performance against Jardine, I am still damn happy UFC made it happen. Hopefully Chuck can get his ass and motivation in gear and bring some heart to the fight. That said, still rooting for Wandy to reclaim some of that Pride and Chute box glory.

[Oorag]

Quote

Sad since he seemed the natural next-in-line to contend for the title and Silva really wanted a little payback for that BS disqualification.

Yeah, I had heard that the winner of that fight would be in line for a title shot, which is why I was doubly surprised that it was an undercard. I don't know how these things work, but if Okami got a title-shot by re-signing, I don't see why he wouldn't, except for the UFC's increasingly bad reputation for ripping fighters off.

Quote

What sparked Tim's sudden hatred of Cheick Kongo.  Is he trying to throw his weight around now that Randy's gone?  Anyway, Tim is definitely going to get a matchup out of that one.  Plus Kongo doesn't have to worry about his suspect ground game being tested.

To me, the fight seems like a good match-up for both of them. Kongo gets another standing target, and he can resist Sylvia's big-man bullying. Sylvia gets a slightly smaller and less-talented version of himself.

And I'm not very interested in seeing Chuck Liddell fight any big names until he can somehow inflate himself into the second dimension. The Iceman mystique has left the octagon.

[Horus Bergeron]

Transcript of DW and the Fertitta presser here.

[EHK for Darwin]

Read that and some of the comments in the forums. I know almost nothing else about the situation. But if true, it doesn't appear that couture has much of a leg to stand on. He appeared to be compensated for the contracted amount, got about as big a push as UFC could give (Even before I started browsing this thread, i'd heard of him. Which is about as good as any UFC guy could do).

Of course that still doesn't tell us how fair/unfair the overall money situation in UFC is. Dana still has the persona of the head of some traveling freak show (or pre-1990's wrestling promotion) who continually degrades the talent and pounds it into their heads that they should be happy to have jobs at all. His attacks on Fedor were needless and Bush League. He doesn't appear to be a professional running a serious organization, but more of a smug, egotistical prick. And he appeared to admit that other people pay his fighters more than he does. (Couture's endorsement money surpassing his fight totals)

Now I know the bigger UFC fighters are marketable. But they're not fricken Tiger Woods. There's money out there, but not that much. But if they could make more pimping vitamin water, that at the very least suggests that there's more money to be had from these fights than UFC is letting on.

Is anyone aware of the actual revenue situation? And do you foresee any threats of UFC collapsing into a boxing style arrangement where the fighters make the fights and directly reap the rewards (by that I mean their agents, managers, and the promoters reap the rewards) or some sort of collective bargaining agreement that ensures a certain percentage of the proceeds goes to the fighters?

[Zelticgar]

This situation is interesting from a variety of angles - the financial, athletic and relationship areas all come into play. I think the UFC was smart to include Fertitta in the presser because Dana White has lost credibility with the HBO deal and losing the Fedor signing. Fertitta coming out and confirming that Couture's complaints were are surprise to him is damaging.

I can't  fault Couture too much on this. My theory is that Couture figured him versus Fedor was probably worth 5 or 6 million each for the fight. When Fedor backed out he did not want to let it go. He figured he can quit which would either give him the leverage to force the UFC to sign Fedor or he could walk away from the UFC to put together his own deal to fight Fedor independently. I think the UFC has positioned itself in a way to block the independent option but who knows? Maybe Couture will roll the dice and sign to fight Fedor in Russia and hope that he can win in a lawsuit...

Moving forward, i think the UFC would do itself a favor to eliminate all these bonuses and increasr the base pay for these fighters. No one on a UFC card should be netting 8K. It just looks bad. Even if they are cover all expenses ect. they should still have a minimum fight scale in the low to mid 20k range. Even a can in the UFC should get rewarded for making it to the big show. WHen you see Sean Sherk fighting and his base pay is 32k it kind of makes the UFC look like they are screwing their fighters.

[Mr Barry]

Stevenson vs Penn for the interim title at UFC 80 in Newcastle!!!! I am wetting myself. BJ is God and I like Stevenson too.

In more worrying news it looks like the CSAC is making a right balls out of the positive steroids test results from the summer with Sherk's hearing put back by two weeks because the commisioners could not open the file he sent them via e-mail but they forgot to tell him???? He has also forced Xyience to take one of their products of the shelf as independent testing showed that it may be contaminated and cause positive test results. Baroni had his sentence reduced after casting doubt on Quest Laboratories. What a frigging mess!

[Analu]

Ser Barry, on Nov 4 2007, 07.32, said:

Stevenson vs Penn for the interim title at UFC 80 in Newcastle!!!! I am wetting myself. BJ is God and I like Stevenson too.

I'm also a huge BJ fan, but the whole "interim" title thing is a bunch of baloney. If DW is refusing to strip Sherk of his title and the winner of BJ vs Stevenson will face Sherk for the real title, why even have an interim title? It dilutes the significance of owning a title, imo.

Anyways, I'm happy this fight is a go, but wish it was happening earlier, like in UFC 78 or 79. Is it really so bad for the UFC to have a loaded card, instead of a bunch of cans fighting, then one or two good fights? I was just rewatching PRIDE Shockwave 2004, and ho brah, there were some seriously sick fights on that card: Chonan vs Silva ("Holy flying scissors leg takedown into heel hook, Batman!"), CroCop vs Randleman, Gomi vs Pulver, Hunt vs Silva, Fedor vs Minotauro. I fucking miss PRIDE man. I know I'm whining but I don't care.

Don't forget, everyone who has Showtime: free EliteXC card this Saturday. Kimbo making his MMA debut! And also Nick Diaz, Jake Shields and company. Should be a fun night. The more I read about Nick Diaz, the more he's growing on me. Dude's just nutz

[GSP]

MakahaBoy,

I'd love to see that Pride Shockwave 2004. Quick question: Hunt vs. which Silva? Gotta ask with all the Wanderlei's, Anderson's (can't be him I know, as he was mentioned vs. Chonan) Assuero's and who else knows out there.

I'm also a big Diaz brother fan. Nick's one of the few shit talkers that I like.

Seems to me DW is showing a little favouritism with Sherk there. He's said repeatedly that they are friends and he trusts him etc. His appeal gets adjourned two weeks, and DW is all 'fuck it, I aint strippin his belt, you've made such a mess of this'. Two weeks? Sounds to me like he was lookin for any way out of strippin Sherk of the belt myself.

I love the UFC but they are screwing their fighters, at least the non marquet (sp?) fighters anyway. How many times have I seen the guys pay out winning (or even loosing, who cares, its the big ticket) and getting some bullshit like three or seven grand. What the fuck is that? When you consider the gate and PPV sales is makes what is supposed to be a top end pro organization look quite niggardly. I know Randy mentioned a marquit fighter needing to take the bullet and step up to head a fighters organization. Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps he was alluding to himself? Who knows.

[Mr Barry]

Re: Interim Title.
I am majorly anti-doping but Sherk's case it a bit different. His positive level is exponentially lower than most people who test positive for Nandrolone. I am working from memory but I think you are allowed 6, he posted 12, a typical positive would be around 150. That alone puts the result in a bit of shadow given how much we don't know about how positive nandrolone tests are created. His case has also been handled very poorly by CSAC. From what I know they have postponed the hearing because most of the committee had never even opened the file he e-mailed them detailing all the evidence he had collected. It has been suggested that the file was corrupted but it took 5 days for that to come to light and even then only one member brought it up and asked for a hard copy of the file, which was provided. Sherk has cast legitimate concerns on both the testing laboratory (Quest) used by the CSAC and the integrity of Xyience products, who are more or less part of Zuffa now days.

Given all of this I think that in DW's shoes I would not strip him of his title*. CSAC's conduct has cast reasonable doubt on the situation. UFC still need title fights to sell PPV but they can't book Sherk to fight so an Interim Title makes business sense as they can market it as a title fight. Not only that but if Sherk goes down they have another 'Champion' in place already with which to sell the next fight. Given the dragging of heels going on I actually give UFC a lot of slack on this one. If BJ or Joe walks around with a title belt who can say that they don't deserve it? It is not their fault that Sherk is suspended and whoever beats the other one (ie. when BJ wins) will have earned their belt.

*I have no idea if Sherk is on 'roids or not. My point is that CSAC's conduct has not been of the integrity needed to make any judgement they make legitimate.



Re: Nick Diaz

I prefer the entertaining crazy people who can't kill me with their bare hands. Cuckoo!!!

[Analu]

Ripley, on Nov 6 2007, 00.30, said:

MakahaBoy,

I'd love to see that Pride Shockwave 2004. Quick question: Hunt vs. which Silva? Gotta ask with all the Wanderlei's, Anderson's (can't be him I know, as he was mentioned vs. Chonan) Assuero's and who else knows out there.

It was Wanderlei vs Mark Hunt. Wand was supposed to fight Sakuraba but Saku got hurt a few days before the fight and Hunt stepped in on just a few days notice. It was a great fight and a stunning upset (which I still don't really agree with. Hell, even Hunt looked shocked that he won). Remember, this is when the Axe Murderer was at the top of his game, hadn't been defeated in years and that everyone thought was invincible.

And yeah, that Shockwave card ruled. Almost every PRIDE card was stacked like that, which is the one real knock that I've always had against the UFC. The Chonan sub was and still is the slickest submission I've ever seen. Something that you expect to see in demonstrations but never think it'd actually work in a fight and against a fighter the caliber of Anderson.

Ser Barry, on Nov 6 2007, 08.56, said:

Re: Interim Title.
[...]

Hmm. I suppose I can see your point about the validity of having an interim title. I don't think it really matters to BJ, though. He just wants to fight and beat the best. I love the guy, but he seems to lose focus at times. I guess that's the curse when you're as naturally gifted as he is. Things just come easier to him, so he doesn't work as hard. Hope he doesn't gas this time.


Re Nick Diaz
He's hilarious. I love how most fighters you have to fight tooth and nail to get more than one or two words out of them, but with Nick, you ask him one simple question and he'll go on some rambling 30 minute rant. Here's an interview with him that I found interesting. It's a little long, but all his interviews are like that. I like what he had to say about BJ Penn near the end of the interview.

[Mr Barry]

I forgot to say that Brock Lesnar is signed to fight Frank Mir in February. Nice 2nd MMA fight but really it is a good match up for Lesnar. What we really need to do is see him face a decent striker who can defend the takedown or a decent MMA wrestler who could clinch/G&P him.

[Horus Bergeron]

Ser Barry, on Nov 6 2007, 12.56, said:

Re: Interim Title.
I am majorly anti-doping but Sherk's case it a bit different. His positive level is exponentially lower than most people who test positive for Nandrolone. I am working from memory but I think you are allowed 6, he posted 12, a typical positive would be around 150. That alone puts the result in a bit of shadow given how much we don't know about how positive nandrolone tests are created. His case has also been handled very poorly by CSAC. From what I know they have postponed the hearing because most of the committee had never even opened the file he e-mailed them detailing all the evidence he had collected. It has been suggested that the file was corrupted but it took 5 days for that to come to light and even then only one member brought it up and asked for a hard copy of the file, which was provided. Sherk has cast legitimate concerns on both the testing laboratory (Quest) used by the CSAC and the integrity of Xyience products, who are more or less part of Zuffa now days.

Given all of this I think that in DW's shoes I would not strip him of his title*. CSAC's conduct has cast reasonable doubt on the situation. UFC still need title fights to sell PPV but they can't book Sherk to fight so an Interim Title makes business sense as they can market it as a title fight. Not only that but if Sherk goes down they have another 'Champion' in place already with which to sell the next fight. Given the dragging of heels going on I actually give UFC a lot of slack on this one. If BJ or Joe walks around with a title belt who can say that they don't deserve it? It is not their fault that Sherk is suspended and whoever beats the other one (ie. when BJ wins) will have earned their belt.

*I have no idea if Sherk is on 'roids or not. My point is that CSAC's conduct has not been of the integrity needed to make any judgement they make legitimate.
Re: Nick Diaz

I prefer the entertaining crazy people who can't kill me with their bare hands. Cuckoo!!!

One major problem with this solution is that one of the saving graces of the UFC and MMA in general is the fact that they agreed to accept state regulation.  This is the only thing that kept it from being outlawed across the country.  If the UFC sets the precedent that they will pick and choose when to adhere to the rulings of the various state regulating bodies that will be the road that could lead MMA back to where it was in 2001.   If there's one thing that I agree with DW is that whenever he is questioned about judging, drug testing, etc. he is quick to mention that there is no possible controversy in this area as it concerns the UFC since this is a state-regulated sport.  Which means that there is no question to it's validity, cleanliness, and legality.  To keep Sean Sherk as the champ despite the fact that the UFC has committed itself to abiding by the state regulatory commissions would be a bad move IMO and open up a can of worms that they may never be able to close.

DW keeping a hands-off policy concerning commission rulings is best for the UFC.