NFL V

[DanteGabriel]

I have to admit I felt a little queasy about the fake spike thing. It was like eating too much bacon. I don't have any issue with sending Brady back in after Cassel's pick-six. Better to be seen as unmerciful than to lose a game because you called the dogs off too early.

Colts looked good last night -- but let's not pretend we can draw any conclusions about the relative strengths of the Colts and Pats just because of who they've played. The Jaguars are a strong, physical team with a great defensive line and a strong running game -- as far as I can tell, however, their receivers still aren't anything, they played half the game with Quinn Gray as their quarterback, and their offensive game calling was the height of self-defeating stupidity.

[Jaime L]

I have to admit I felt a little queasy about the fake spike thing. It was like eating too much bacon. I don't have any issue with sending Brady back in after Cassel's pick-six. Better to be seen as unmerciful than to lose a game because you called the dogs off too early.

I don't have a problem with either one persay. Just wanted to get other people's take on it. I can understand the rationale for both: step on their throats, give them no hope. I just think it's a kind of cartoonish villainy that you never see in football. Granted, no-one's ever been so good before that such issues arise on a weekly basis. Maybe other teams would do it too if they could blow out teams in the same way as the Pats....but it's something we've never seen before.

Colts looked good last night -- but let's not pretend we can draw any conclusions about the relative strengths of the Colts and Pats just because of who they've played. The Jaguars are a strong, physical team with a great defensive line and a strong running game -- as far as I can tell, however, their receivers still aren't anything, they played half the game with Quinn Gray as their quarterback, and their offensive game calling was the height of self-defeating stupidity.

Agreed.

[14th Dragon]

Um...read FO's take on it (Patriots Fans no less):

At what point do you actually attempt to look at your team objectively?

So if had just spiked the ball and then thrown the touchdown, no big deal? why give the defense the chance to catch their breath with the spike instead of making them run more? Brady goes to the line and see the match up favors Moss and is ready to go, why should he be spiking the ball?

This was in the first half people! Not the end of the game. Do you just figure that you go up by certain number of points the mercy rule is envoked and the teams stop playing to win? Why are you not berating Miami for leaving Ronnie Brown in in the second half? He is their best weapon right now and they had already lost the game, so why keep him playing? Why take the risk with your best player if the game is over?

[Rockroi]

At what point do you actually attempt to look at your team objectively?

Uhm... all the time.

Look, in some respects this IS a huge statement to the rest of the league- we are maxing this out. However, and this is key, DID YOU SEE THE TITANS GAME? IIRC, one team came back from a 20+ point deficit. Its been known to happen.

Like, you know, the AFC Championship game last season.

I mean, its classless to put in your back-up? Then put in your third stringer? Yes, Brady came between, but that was to kill momentum that may have been in the works. THOSE THINGS HAPPEN! Its the NFL- we forget now but this is a league that boasts that on ANY GIVEN SUNDAY any one team can beat any other team. Wonder for a minute- what would have happened had Cassel stayed in and threw ANOTHER pick. Then, Brady HAS to come back in- and that REAKS of desperation, panic. And the D is up, the crowd is back into it, palyers get all jazzed up, and BOOM (thank you Madden), a tipped ball and the Dolphins recover and its a 7 point game! (in other words- its anyone's game there).

Had that happened, if it were ANY other team, people would forgive and say, "Wow was that (un)lucky", but real sports fans know better. That can and HAS happend. Ask the Warren Moon Oilers what being on the wrong side of a comeback feels like... to Frank Reich!

You play to win and there are no guarentees in this game. NONE! You score more points to keep all that "luck" from happening.

As my wife says when we play Scrabble (and she invariably kicks my ass) and I say to her, "You took away the space I was going to use for my next word," and says, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn;t know this was a team game."

I didn't know we had to keep the game competitive. My bad....

[Jaime L]

This was in the first half people! Not the end of the game. Do you just figure that you go up by certain number of points the mercy rule is envoked and the teams stop playing to win? Why are you not berating Miami for leaving Ronnie Brown in in the second half? He is their best weapon right now and they had already lost the game, so why keep him playing? Why take the risk with your best player if the game is over?

When you're 6-0 and playing an 0-6 team...you're up 35-7 in the first half, and you're driving for another score. You'd think you'd be secure enough in your own team such that you don't need to try gimmickry to catch the Dolphins napping. You'd think you could continue just beating their brains out.

It ends up looking like either extreme paranoia or a desire to stick it to the Dolphins for all those nightmare trips to Miami. Surely you can see this?

[Jaime L]

Like, you know, the AFC Championship game last season.

Maybe that game (more than spy-gate) turned Belichick into Cyber-Belichick.

[14th Dragon]

When you're 6-0 and playing an 0-6 team...you're up 35-7 in the first half, and you're driving for another score. You'd think you'd be secure enough in your own team such that you don't need to try gimmickry to catch the Dolphins napping. You'd think you could continue just beating their brains out.

It ends up looking like either extreme paranoia or a desire to stick it to the Dolphins for all those nightmare trips to Miami. Surely you can see this?

If Brady see the match-up where he can score before the defense can get even a token pass rush, why not take the shot? I thought this was football.

[Rockroi]

It ends up looking like either extreme paranoia or a desire to stick it to the Dolphins for all those nightmare trips to Miami. Surely you can see this?

I can see how it would look like this, but its not extreme paranoia in the NFL. I'm sorry. Its been known to happen. There is not a single solitary rule in the NFL that says that 0-6 teams cannot ever defeat 6-0 teams. I mean, the Dolphins are a terrible franchinse- and yet, they THUMPED us 21-0 last season, and the Pats almost won the Superbowl. We went 14-2 three seasons ago. One of the two losses? Against the Dolphins. It happens. Comebacks happen as well. Not necesarily by 0-6 teams, but i don't like to bet on other's incompetancy- I'd rather just win.

Now, put that all off to the side. I do get a secret amount of glee knowing we CAN at ANY TIME just start scoring more. We may score 100 points v. the Jets. That knowledge is comforting against teams like the Colts.

Now, put all THAT off to the side. Its funny because its Evil Patriots and really, everyone else in the legue- all who COULD NOT WAIT to sell us down the river after week 1 (spygate and the FLOODGATES of people puring out to condemn us....). Well, here is our retort- the most explosive offense ever- from undefeated Dalls to completely Hapless New York and EVERY stop inbetween. We own you all. Hate us that much? STOP US!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Oh by the way the Broncos beat a "great" Steelers team and defense. They took it to "Big Ben" and made him look bad for the first half of the game. The Steelers adjusted but considering the amount of injuries to the Broncos (we played without Tom Nalen, Javon Walker, and Champ Bailey), we sure looked good. Jay finally threw some TDs and the offense came to life with Tony Scheffler, Brandon Stokely, and Brandon Marshall.

Of course things keep getting worse. Bailey and Walker are likely out for another month, Nalen out for the season, and Brandon Marshall--who is a stud--was just arrested. So that leaves our WRs looking like Stokely, Glenn Martinez, and Brian Clark. Don't know who those last two guys are? No one else does either. Martinez recently said he'd forget his own name if it wasn't plastered all over his jersey. Oh yeah Travis Henry's time with Denver is about two weeks from over.

Edit: Still I think we got this whole Super Bowl thing in the bag.

[Jaime L]

Now, put all THAT off to the side. Its funny because its Evil Patriots and really, everyone else in the legue- all who COULD NOT WAIT to sell us down the river after week 1 (spygate and the FLOODGATES of people puring out to condemn us....). Well, here is our retort- the most explosive offense ever- from undefeated Dalls to completely Hapless New York and EVERY stop inbetween. We own you all. Hate us that much? STOP US!

Rock's losing it.

I mean more than usual.

BTW, how many people in this thread and on ESPN have been talking about how the Patriots have a chance to be the greatest team of all time? The sensitivity you have to anything potentially negative said about the Pats is remarkable.

[grozeng]

I mean, its classless to put in your back-up? Then put in your third stringer? Yes, Brady came between, but that was to kill momentum that may have been in the works. THOSE THINGS HAPPEN! Its the NFL- we forget now but this is a league that boasts that on ANY GIVEN SUNDAY any one team can beat any other team. Wonder for a minute- what would have happened had Cassel stayed in and threw ANOTHER pick. Then, Brady HAS to come back in- and that REAKS of desperation, panic. And the D is up, the crowd is back into it, palyers get all jazzed up, and BOOM (thank you Madden), a tipped ball and the Dolphins recover and its a 7 point game! (in other words- its anyone's game there).

Well, if they put the 3rd stringer in then Brady would not have been able to come back in. So maybe that was the issue. Belicheck did not want Cassel back out there because he sucked and thought it was too early for the third stringert to go in just in case these magical 14 points occurred that all the Pats fans on this board keep talking about. So Brady was his only choice.

And it's not the Pats job to keep the game competitive, but it's generally held that you don't run up the score on teams (especially in your own division). Kind of like the rule that you don't rat out your old boss and we see how good that is working out for the Jets. Karma is a bitch.

[Jaime L]

Edit: Still I think we got this whole Super Bowl thing in the bag.

Awesome.

Cutler looked good man.

[grozeng]

I mean, the Dolphins are a terrible franchinse- and yet, they THUMPED us 21-0 last season, and the Pats almost won the Superbowl.

Now that would be something worth talking about. More than the potential undefeated season. The Pats almost won the Super Bowl last year without even playing in the game. It's like me saying the Jets almost won the Super Bowl the year they lost to the Broncos in the championship game.

[14th Dragon]

BTW, how many people in this thread and on ESPN have been talking about how the Patriots have a chance to be the greatest team of all time? The sensitivity you have to anything potentially negative said about the Pats is remarkable.

I hate that as much as I hate the PAts are evil talk. ESPN should shut-up. The team wining 16 games is meaningless unless they win the 19th one. So lets talk about that, other then getting homefield through-out and allowing Bill to summon the snow and cold against Dungy, Peyton and thier mongrel horde everything else is quatinary. (Or whatever 4th is?)

And it's not the Pats job to keep the game competitive, but it's generally held that you don't run up the score on teams (especially in your own division). Kind of like the rule that you don't rat out your old boss and we see how good that is working out for the Jets. Karma is a bitch.

Your right, the fake spike was clearly a vendetta. Brady thought to himself "Jason Taylor voted me dirtiest player in the leauge last year. Time to show him how dirty I can be. Give Randy the little nod and he will know it is a fake then chuck it over their heads. Bwaa-haaaaaaaa." Clearly this was personal.

[Stego]

Jamie....title bet?

You would think this is the one week you;d shut up about the Pats. Or maybe you're getting it all out before your jaw hits the floor. I dunno.

Anyway, my opinion is that the Redskins have a chance to have the best safety tandem in the history of the game. They have a talented young QB, a great runner, very, very good receivers and tough playmakers on both sides of the ball.

The Pats beat them by 21.

[grozeng]

Your right, the fake spike was clearly a vendetta. Brady thought to himself "Jason Taylor voted me dirtiest player in the leauge last year. Time to show him how dirty I can be. Give Randy the little nod and he will know it is a fake then chuck it over their heads. Bwaa-haaaaaaaa." Clearly this was personal.

Not sure how this follows from what I posted about not wanting to run the score up on teams in your division (as a matter of good sportsmanship) but that's OK.

[Stego]

Now that would be something worth talking about. More than the potential undefeated season. The Pats almost won the Super Bowl last year without even playing in the game. It's like me saying the Jets almost won the Super Bowl the year they lost to the Broncos in the championship game.

Facts:

-The winner of the AFC Championship is the Super Bowl Champion in every year this millennium the NFC coach does not know the AFC teams playbook.

-If not for injuries, the Pats win the AFC championship.

-If not for a bogus pass interference call that the NFL HAS STATED OFFICIALLY WAS A BAD CALL, the Pats win the AFC Championship.

So yes, the Pats almost won the Super Bowl. In fact, I stand by my assertion that the AFC championship *is* the Super Bowl until an NFC team proves me wrong. (Like Peyton did last year, regardless of officiating assistance.)

You simply *must* be emotionally involved to not grasp the reality that the NFC is the inferior conference, and by quite a lot.

[Stego]

Sportsmanship is for when you're not getting paid for it. I contend that the Pats left points on the field and allowed *WAY* too many.

I would not be happy with 99-0, if 100 points were possible.

ETA: Are the Pats supposed to care for the feelings of Dolphins fans? Is that really what you're insinuating? The Fins crushed my soul last year with a SHUTOUT. I got over it.

[14th Dragon]

-If not for a bogus pass interference call that the NFL HAS STATED OFFICIALLY WAS A BAD CALL, the Pats win the AFC Championship.

Gotta hold you up there Kenny.

Yes it was a bad call as face-guarding is no longer a penalty. But Peyton was outa his mind that hlaf and the defense was gassed, feverish and dehydradted. That call was bad but it did not alter the game.

Tony, Peyton and the rest of there sub-human race known as the Colts legitmitly won that game and thier rings.

[Bronn Stone]

Sportsmanship is for when you're not getting paid for it.

Sportsmanship is what keeps teams from taking cheap shots intended to injure.

The fines alone are not enough - you don't think in the absence of sportsmanship the Pats would decide that the $100K fine and suspension are worth it - take out Peyton at the first opportunity. Or the reverse - that Mangini would have his revenge on Belichik with a cheap shot that ends Brady's career.

Sportsmanship is essential at every level of football. There is a code. There are things you do and things you don't do. And the cost for 'doing things you don't do' is that other teams often retaliate by doing something else you generally don't do. Using a sucker play at the end of a half when up by 28 is one of the things you 'don't do'. Not as serious as intentionally diving into the knees of a quarterback, but something that an NFL player knows is likely to end up escalating.