110 replies to this topic

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Yes, we certainly don't need more POVs. I am afraid this just means we will have to wait longer.

Besides, I am not very excited about any of the three possibilities. I certainly don't want to see Melisandre or Sandor POVs. Both these characters are interesting, but work better if they remain something of an unknown, IMHO. OTOH, Loras doesn't seem very interesting at all, unless he stays on Dragonstone and meets Dany, but even then, do we really see it from his POV?

[Jon Targaryen]

I would want a Sandor POV.

I do not want Loras. If the GTCT is true, he is just an empty vanity who plays some tricks. That would be terrible, imo. If he is burned, there is some potential ala what happened to Jaime after he lost his hand only more so.

Melisandre. I don't want her to reveal Jon's parentage. I am not trying to derail this into an R+L thread but Melisandre might be able to figure out who Jon's parents are through her visions and GRRM has said Jon's parentage will be revealed eventually, meaning it hasn't yet. So I don't want her to see it in her visions. I think it should not come from a non-POV, namely Howland Reed.

Also, I don't want to get inside the mind of another religious zealot. I think Aeron was enough.

Sandor would privide the character depth of Tyrion throughout the series or Jaime in the last half of ASOS and AFFC. He would have started a new, principled, peaceful life. Then he hears of the Ungregor as Cersei's champion. He is conflicted between his new role and his old hatred. But there is a solution. He fights for the Faith to defeat the monster and put his old masters, who were evil he knew, on the ropes.

Unfortunately, I think if Sandor faces Gregor in the coming trial by battle, he will die. Gregor will win that fight no matter who he faces due to Maggy saying Cersei will be cast down by the younger, more beautiful queen (ie not the Faith or the Tyrells if you believe GTCT).

Edited by Jon Targaryen, 03 January 2008 - 03:00 PM.

[Angalin]

GRRM made mention of changing his mind - I paraphrase - about some of the things he's said in previous updates and in his livejournal, which makes me think he may not observe the "regional divide" of POVs as strictly as he has previously led us to believe.  In that case, Sandor or Loras would be perfectly reasonable.

[malek]

I would love to see Bronn as the new POV, but it willer never happen :sad:

Are we sure it will be one of "old" characters, and not someone like Griff or so ?!

[Vintertroll]

I want a Tyrell POV badly. Preferably Loras. They're too important to just be described from the outside, I want a closer look inside that family. Not really interested in seeing more of Melisandra, since she is so similar to Cercei in many ways, and also because she's close to Stannis, and I'm not really interested in him either.

[blindsdog]

He said its someone in the new miniature line, so it has to be either Mel, Loras, Sandor or a random NW guy.

Regarding Melisandre, I'd rather not have her POV, mainly because she may know too much. Also, I'd rather she be kept a more mysterious character, if only because of how prominent her magic is. I don't like books with POV's who practice magic, for the most part. Don't really like the warging tbh. ;P

Also, a Loras POV is possible, depending on how whatever he did at Dragonstone effect's Stannis. Either way, if it is Loras, it won't be until near the end with only 2-3 chapters, after he leaves KL.

Dunno if this should be spoilered or not, regarding the Jon sample chapter, but seeing as I don't know how to do spoiler tags, I won't. Jon proposed to Stannis that he have his men join the NW so he can man the abandoned outposts with NW men under his own officers. Perhaps Stannis will allow it, and the new POV is one of the Officers Jon chooses. Or just Stannis's men under Jon's officers. Shouldn't rule out some random NW man IMO.

Edited by blindsdog, 03 January 2008 - 04:12 PM.

[GSP]

Sandor all the way! I'm not putting any money on that actually being the case, but that's the POV that would thrill me most. Who isn't interested in hearing the inner monologue of a reforming monster? Jaime's POV's are entertaining in my opinion in large part because of a similar, but unique, internal struggle.

I'm guessing Mel is how it pans out though.

[Sneeki2]

Ripley, on Jan 3 2008, 15.31, said:

Sandor all the way! I'm not putting any money on that actually being the case, but that's the POV that would thrill me most. Who isn't interested in hearing the inner monologue of a reforming monster? Jaime's POV's are entertaining in my opinion in large part because of a similar, but unique, internal struggle.

I'm guessing Mel is how it pans out though.

Loras = another boring goody two shoes
Mel = Best kept in doubt about her thoughts
Sandor = Ding Ding Ding Ding!

[Harry the Heir]

It seems to me that people have been arguing that Sandor will fill pretty much every "Mystery POV" slot since before A Storm of Swords came out; that alone is enough to make me think that Sandor isn't about to become the new POV. Always a bridesmaid and all that.

Edited by The Fat Man, 03 January 2008 - 04:52 PM.

[Padraig]

Angalin, on Jan 3 2008, 20.14, said:

GRRM made mention of changing his mind - I paraphrase - about some of the things he's said in previous updates and in his livejournal, which makes me think he may not observe the "regional divide" of POVs as strictly as he has previously led us to believe.

Except, if he wanted to cover the South again, why would he need a new POV?  And it doesn't escape the fact that timeline wise Sandor and Loras do not work.

There are a few things he may/has changed his mind on.  No new POVs for one. :P  How big the book is for another.

IMO, I doubt GRRM rushed into this decision.  He knew some of the negatives about including Mel but he realised eventually that he could make it work.  She wouldn't have a lot of chapters anyhow and I doubt she'll do a lot of magic.  (Deciding to include Mel is probably one of the reasons the book is delayed.  But this change doesn't compare with removing the 5 year gap.  Its small beans really).

[Atreides]

I'm thinking it's Loras. Melisandre knows too much, or has too many secrets to be a PoV. Sandor is too far south, most likely. Loras is at Dragonstone (or at least arriving there during the course of the book), might or might not have receive a major injury, and it's about time that we get a Tyrell PoV. And "goody two shoes" isn't the only way to describe Loras. I think that "emotionally unstable killing machine" also fits Loras well.

Edited by Atreides, 03 January 2008 - 04:57 PM.

[Triskele]

Yes - I don't think it would make sense for Mel.  She is too mysterious and ominous as is.  And has already been stated, it would be a strange move to add a POV at the wall.  Not ridiculous, but Loras seems to be involved in something that we don't know much about, and is relevent.  I think that Loras is the most likely.  

I won't mind any of the three though and I think any of these three will probably be a good move, as oppose to the fairly massive POV expansion in AFFC.

[Lord of Salvation]

I agree with E Bard, to add a new storyline of major significance this late in the game would lead me to believe he really has written next to nothing. Maybe not even half of the book.

Except there is to be multiple chapters from this new POV, so I really do not understand his process or how he will pull off inserting a major POV for 3+ chapters.

Edited by Lord of Salvation, 03 January 2008 - 06:45 PM.

[Padraig]

Lord of Salvation, on Jan 3 2008, 23.43, said:

I agree with E Bard, to add a new storyline of major significance this late in the game would lead me to believe he really has written next to nothing. Maybe not even half of the book.

Except there is to be multiple chapters from this new POV, so I really do not understand his process or how he will pull off inserting a major POV for 3+ chapters.

Except if you think its Sandor or Loras then he is not inserting a brand new storyline into aDwD.  This is just another facet of the North storyline.  And except if you think GRRM is lieing in his update, he clearly has way more than half the book written.  And there is no reason to believe that he hasn't already spent some time writing Mel POVs.

Quote

Not ridiculous, but Loras seems to be involved in something that we don't know much about, and is relevent.

Relevant to the overall series but not apparently relevant to aDwD.

[adriandarco]

Sneeki2, on Jan 3 2008, 22.47, said:

Loras = another boring goody two shoes

Hehe boring? Loras lost everything. Renly, his beauty, possibly Margaery and maybe his mind too. What we know about the siege showed, that he was in some kind of blind rage. He is burned from inside and outside. He is the fallen knight who has the strenght and power to change things... I think he could be an interesting character.
But maybe he just dies from his wound. Losing Loras and Margaery would make the Tyrells pretty angry and careless...

[The Black Mamba of Dorne]

I want Sandor. Everyone who mentions Sandor as the POV seems to think he'll have to go through the generic 'Champion of The Church versus Ungregor' route but IMO that ain't the case. He could easily go with Brynden Tully and end up saving Sansa from LF or anything else which hasn't been talked to death on this forum.
When was the last time a prediction made on this forum actually happened in the next book?

[Jon Targaryen]

The Black Mamba of Dorne, on Jan 3 2008, 17.28, said:

When was the last time a prediction made on this forum actually happened in the next book?

What kind of prediction? Brienne and Quentyn were the majority choices for mystery POV before they were revealed, iirc.

[sholtzma]

Sandor could do any one of a million things at this point in the series.  That many people seem convinced that he is going to be a champion of the Faith, and that this new position will limit him or exclude him from any other possibilities is simply narrow minded.  He can:

1.  Start out as a champion of the Faith, then do other things.  Or stay with the Faith, and become a Septon.

2.  Go out to fight Gregolem, and either fight him or not fight him.

3.  Become a Master Gardener (from another thread, lol).

4.  Stay on Quiet Isle with his new family and keep digging graves.

5.  Go to the Vale with BF (excellent thought put forth by someone else on another thread) and figure out Alayne.

6.  Leave Saltpans and cross the sea, and marry Dany.

7.  Go to Braavos and save Arya from her FM training.

I mean, Martin could write him to do any one of a million things at this point!  We can't say anything about Sandor's crossroads now.  But Sandor was born to be a warrior, and as Jon T. so eloquently put it,

"The Warrior" is a POV that would be awesome, and Martin would be one of the few writers that could actually pull it off.

When the book comes out, I will stand in the bookstore, go through the book to see the headings of the chapters, and yell when I find out, whoever it is.  I know right now I won't be able to wait.  I know I will be upset if Sandor is gardening at any point in the series, however.

Oh, and if we don't learn any more about Lyanna Stark, I will be upset.  I have actually had dreams lately of "Promise me, Ned" and it's starting to drive me crazy.  Not because I want it to be a certain answer, but because the lack of an answer is really bugging me.  Any new information will be most welcome.

[Jon Targaryen]

4, 6 and 7 seem unlikely imho. I don't mean to offend but with 4 there is no reason for a POV and 6 and 7 beg the question of how he figures this stuff out.

It is a fun exercise to see what Sandor could do as a POV though, even if I think the new one is Mel.

1. Fight the Gregorlem.

2. Join the Faith Militant and give us a first-hand view of that.

Hmm, I can't think of anymore right now but that is probably because I am so enamored with the "The Warrior" idea.