209 replies to this topic

[Prince of the North]

tycho, on Feb 20 2008, 19.01, said:

but not all of them who have been resurrected have come back alive  ;) , like our good friend lady stoneheart.  even if benjen isn't coldhands, coldhands is certianly a character who walks the line between true life and undying life fairly tightly.

I see what you're saying but I think Beric, Catelyn/Stoneheart and (in my theory) Benjen/Coldhands are really "alive" again and autonomous, unlike wights, when they are resurrected.  Furthermore, we have ample evidence (especially with Beric) that resurrection does not erase all physical changes or damage to the body.  Physical evidence of all the various ways in which Beric died was still present after each subsequent resurrection.  The same goes for Catelyn/Stoneheart.  Her throat was severely, deeply cut and she can now only manage a whisper.  Also, she was in the river for a few days and now has pale, scaly skin or whatever.  So the resurrection got her back to some semblance of "working order' but it didn't/couldn't heal everything.  

My theory is that Benjen was killed somewhere beyond the Wall and, of course, a dead body would quickly begin to freeze and the extremities (hands, feet, etc.) would begin to freeze and turn black first.  I think he was resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow and/or the Children of the Forest and is now Coldhands.

[Jon Targaryen]

Catelyn is still alive, albeit as Stoneheart. That's how I explain it.

Edited by Jon Targaryen, 21 February 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[fgalkin]

Jon Targaryen, on Feb 21 2008, 13.01, said:

Catelyn is still alive, albeit as Stoneheart. That's how I explain it.

Yeah, and Benjen may be alive in a similar way, as Coldhands. Just because he has the frozen limbs of a wight does not mean that he's undead.  

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Edited by fgalkin, 21 February 2008 - 03:14 PM.

[ShadezofDys]

I'd really like to see Benjen as Coldhands and the overall plot of Coldhands to be bringing Bran in to lead the Others.  I think it'd be a great twist to have the Others be more than just cold zombies from up north.  I mean, I'm sure there's more to the Others than just "errrr, arrrrr, kills all the humannnnsssss" and I think it'd be a great plot.

It could be that after the dominance of dragons for the past few thousand years has waned enough that it's now the Others turn for dominance for the next few thousand years.

I don't think it's likely, but I find it a compelling idea.  :D

[fgalkin]

ShadezofDys, on Feb 21 2008, 15.29, said:

I'd really like to see Benjen as Coldhands and the overall plot of Coldhands to be bringing Bran in to lead the Others.  I think it'd be a great twist to have the Others be more than just cold zombies from up north.  I mean, I'm sure there's more to the Others than just "errrr, arrrrr, kills all the humannnnsssss" and I think it'd be a great plot.

It could be that after the dominance of dragons for the past few thousand years has waned enough that it's now the Others turn for dominance for the next few thousand years.

I don't think it's likely, but I find it a compelling idea.  :D

I don't think Bran is going to be leading the Others. Remember, Jojen is taking him beyond the wall because he is being told to in his green dreams. Green dreams come from the Children of the Forest, it has nothing to do with the Others.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[ShadezofDys]

fgalkin, on Feb 21 2008, 16.55, said:

I don't think Bran is going to be leading the Others. Remember, Jojen is taking him beyond the wall because he is being told to in his green dreams. Green dreams come from the Children of the Forest, it has nothing to do with the Others.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I agree, though I wouldn't mind seeing the Others as the corrupted remains of the Children of the Forest.

But like I said, I don't find this line of thinking likely but one of the things I REALLY like about this series is the lack of Good guys vs Bad guys and the Others are just too obviously bad for my tastes. (though there could be all sorts of ideas Martin has about the society of the Others, I certainly don't know *g*)

[Harry the Heir]

ShadezofDys, on Feb 21 2008, 15.29, said:

I'd really like to see Benjen as Coldhands and the overall plot of Coldhands to be bringing Bran in to lead the Others.  I think it'd be a great twist to have the Others be more than just cold zombies from up north.  I mean, I'm sure there's more to the Others than just "errrr, arrrrr, kills all the humannnnsssss" and I think it'd be a great plot.

I have the same feeling (except Bloodraven is clearly Coldhands :P ); I think it would pay off the theme of families-torn-against-each-other in a really satisfying way, since this would pit Jon and Bran on opposite sides of the war for the dawn.

Incidentally, this here thread has more Coldhands speculation (and petty bickering) than you can shake a stick at. I suggest people interested in the topic read it over closely.

Edited by The Fat Man, 23 February 2008 - 01:30 PM.

[Jon Targaryen]

I think the idea that Bran leads the Others is interesting. Perhaps he "must live because winter is coming" because he is the prophesied human child that will lead them to liberty.

I prefer he does the same for the CotF, ala Paul for the Fremen in Dune.

[The Pita]

I dunno...
The Long Night sounds awfully cold. The cold will kill many people. The Others can not be good if their ultimate task will kill everyone (I would like to see anyone survive a night that lasts forever and gets colder and colder)
I also don't see Bran leading them after all of the "others are evil" stories unless he becomes completely corrupted, in which case George would have had much more chapters of him in the books, methinks.

[Tim of Starfall]

Un-Yearded Pita, on Feb 24 2008, 15.29, said:

I dunno...
The Long Night sounds awfully cold. The cold will kill many people. The Others can not be good if their ultimate task will kill everyone (I would like to see anyone survive a night that lasts forever and gets colder and colder)
I also don't see Bran leading them after all of the "others are evil" stories unless he becomes completely corrupted, in which case George would have had much more chapters of him in the books, methinks.

I think Bran will lead, or at least be a connection to the Children of the Forests. One thing that i always have preferred is to think of the Others and Children of the Forests to be one and the same species/people. One side is "good" and in favour of harmony with the humans, while the other side  is "evil" and hate the living humans who destroyed so much. the Long night could be a sort of rebellion after the Pact between first men and the children was made by large groups who disagreed with this Pact.

[Jon Targaryen]

Tim of Starfall, on Feb 25 2008, 07.05, said:

I think Bran will lead, or at least be a connection to the Children of the Forests. One thing that i always have preferred is to think of the Others and Children of the Forests to be one and the same species/people. One side is "good" and in favour of harmony with the humans, while the other side  is "evil" and hate the living humans who destroyed so much. the Long night could be a sort of rebellion after the Pact between first men and the children was made by large groups who disagreed with this Pact.

The Children and Others don't look similar from what we know but after more than 12,000 years of evolution I suppose they could have changed appearances. Though the Children looked as they do 12,000 years ago. But we don't know how long they were there before that so the point still stands.

[ytee]

There's not a whole lot of evidence to suggest that Benjen is still alive. Something I like about this series is that Martin doesn't seem to feel compelled to tie everything up in a neat little bow. I won't be surprised if by the time we get to the last book we're all still completely ignorant of Ben's eventual fate.

Edited by ytee, 06 March 2008 - 10:41 PM.

[house stark and baratheon]

he might be alive just being held prisoner by someone?

[stormblast]

There is absolutely no reason for him to be alive plot-wise. His role in the series was to recruit Jon to the Night's Watch, then disappear, so events there develop the way they do.
Just think for a moment what would have happened if he had returned from his ranging in the first book:
Being first ranger he insists that Jon also becomes one, instead of Mormont's personal steward. Jon doesn't get to save Old Bear from the wights, then Benjen most likely ends up being lord commander. Jon doesn't go with Qhorin to investigate the wildlings, meet Mance, doesn't become lord commander, etc, etc.
My point is that Benjen played his role, then became expendable. What's the big deal about him anyway? Even if he is indeed Coldhands, what of it?

Edited by stormblast, 02 September 2011 - 07:05 AM.

[The Knight of Flowers]

Here's a thought; if Benjen is still alive, and if he isn't Coldhands, and he arrives back at the wall before Bran/Rickon are discovered to be alive, will Stannis make him the same offer that he made Jon?

[Bran's flight dummy]

Benjen is dead and now is Coldhands
As I believe the wights are the reanimated dead being warged by the others when you think back to the Fist where Sam killed the other and became the Slayer the control over Coldhands would be lifted.  Either letting him come back as Beric, and cat style and with Bloodravens help is sent to help Sam then get Bran or being now masterless is warged by Bloodraven to be his newest tool.  If he is working with instead of for why is he left outside once they get to the cave so i tend to believe the later.
Totally agree Benjen done his part and is not needed.
The others are complete opposites of the CoTFs.  The others are all tall and gaunt and the Children are small

[jake21221]

I think SOMETHING has to be going on with Benjen, either he did something important and got torn to shreds by the others or is still roaming around in the wilderness or has somehow found shelter somewhere. I hadn't considered the fact that he could be coldhands (On an unrelated note I was listening to some Tom Waits music and wrote "I hadnt considered that he could be pregnant." Crackpot theory list? I think so) If that is true I like that idea that he's helping his nephew. All in all I hope we hear something about Benjen in tWoW.

[Bing]

stormblast, on 02 September 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

There is absolutely no reason for him to be alive plot-wise. His role in the series was to recruit Jon to the Night's Watch, then disappear, so events there develop the way they do.
Just think for a moment what would have happened if he had returned from his ranging in the first book:
Being first ranger he insists that Jon also becomes one, instead of Mormont's personal steward. Jon doesn't get to save Old Bear from the wights, then Benjen most likely ends up being lord commander. Jon doesn't go with Qhorin to investigate the wildlings, meet Mance, doesn't become lord commander, etc, etc.
My point is that Benjen played his role, then became expendable. What's the big deal about him anyway? Even if he is indeed Coldhands, what of it?

Agree with this.

I think he may be Coldhands, but I think Coldhands' importance (so far) has blown out of proportion by readers almost as much as Benjen has himself. It may well be that GRRM will simply leave fans to speculate who Coldhands may be. For me unless Coldhands has a major role to play later on there's not much point in going too much further with either character. They've served their purpose. For other characters who have also served their purpose- see Jaqen and Syrio.

[Ice Turtle]

The most interesting part about Benjen is when he tels Jon that he hears sometimes direwolves beyond the Wall and when Jon speaks with Tyrion about finding his uncle on the top of the Wall at some point of that conversation a wolf somwhere far away starts to howl. I dont think is entirely coincidence.