[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 3 but actually Jon 1
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:41 AM
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:57 AM
Of course, this being GRRM, it will probably come back to bite Jon on the arse.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 02:54 AM
Him and Robb own hardcore.
But Robb died, so all his own passed onto Jon.
Jon is now an effergy own that will bring justice and ruin upon his foes.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 03:58 AM
But it would be cool if it was real. Slynt the bastard deserves to die. :P
Posted 31 March 2008 - 04:11 AM
I'll also guess the magazine itself was not available at TechniCon.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 05:04 AM
My main reason for this being that if very little time passes then it can hardly be a spur of the moment decision because Jon had to have a 100ft long rope prepared in advance. I think that Jon had planned for this turn of events, I think this could be the defining moment where he 'kills the boy' in the eyes of all the doubting watchmen.
Another question: Was Melisandre in this chapter at all?
We got Stannis' reaction but I think it would be much more interesting if we could compare it to Mel's reaction.
What an awesome chapter though!
Posted 31 March 2008 - 06:35 AM
My opinion of Jon Arryn as the Hand reaches new low here - a nice example of the sympathetic POVs subjectivity ;). I am more certain than ever now that the tunnel to Chataya's was built for him.
Very interesting glimpse of Aemon - Egg relationship, too. It looks that Egg was quite reluctant to accept the Crown. Also, it seems very likely that Aemon should have known the salient details of the Summerhall events - it is so frustrating that he died without sharing them with the reader!
Posted 31 March 2008 - 06:43 AM
One thing that isn't clear. At the start of the Chapter which takes place over the course of two or three days it appears that Jon, in his discussions with Sam, is unaware of Tywin's murder. Then as Slynt is being dragged off, he is aware of Tywin's murder. I suppose the news could have arrived later in the day after Sam, Gilly, and Maester Aemon left but it isn't mentioned overtly.
Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison, 31 March 2008 - 06:50 AM.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 06:59 AM
When his corruption became clear afterwards, we're told that Jon Arryn gathered the evidence to try and have him removed, and it was Robert who overruled him.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 08:36 AM
As others have said beheading would probably have made it seem to the others like Jon did it just for his own satisfaction, and that would have been really dangerous in the future. Killing Janos will probably help keep other potencial opponents in line. He is turning into probably the first Stark ever liked by Stannis.
Edited by Asharak, 31 March 2008 - 08:37 AM.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 08:51 AM
I had my daughter in my lap during the reading. That passage made me hold her a little more tightly.
Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison, 31 March 2008 - 09:03 AM.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 11:00 AM
Ah, Ned would have done the same thing. Say what you will about him, but he was dead serious about the Wall. The very first chapter we see him in he beheads someone!
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:12 PM
Hopefully we will see more of him. Cool character. But where would Jon find a maester ? He's sending Sam south because he lacks maesters, besides the two goons at Eastwatch and Shadow Tower. Maybe Stannis has brought some with him.
Must be Sweet Donnel Hill.
As for Slynt I think Jon really left him a chance, he was ready for the worst but it was a test he could still have passed.
I am very surprised however that no word of his death would have reached the South in AFfC. Maybe Qyburn has been filtering information even more than suspected.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:15 PM
I'll also guess the magazine itself was not available at TechniCon.
Ran, I have no idea about that. For some reason I thought it was going to be the same chapter, but it is very likely that I made that up in my head. I can't remember where I got that from. It might have been us speculating. Maybe someone else at Technicon remembers where I got that from?
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:17 PM
I'll tell you what Ned would never have done, promised to kill a child. That was downright cold blooded.
I was never certian it was the same chapter to be printed in the magazine. However, I missed the second session with GRRM on Friday night so I figured you must have heard something I didn't.
During the reading Jon makes it clear to Sam, to Giant, and to Slynt he is sending to the Citadel to send more Maester's. Whether the Citadel responds to the request is another question.
Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison, 31 March 2008 - 12:21 PM.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:20 PM
Absolutely. Jon may have counted on Janos digging his own grave, but Janos absolutely could have accepted the order and saved his own life. Jon isn't Tywin Lannister... yet.
It could be simpler than that. Qyburn doesn't have informants on the Wall--I don't know that Varys did either; certainly I don't recall that he ever knew anything about the Night's Watch that wouldn't have come from a raven sent to King's Landing--and Jon saw no need to send an official announcement because Slynt was a Lannister ally.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:32 PM
The more I think about this, the more I think that it is significant. At the beginning of the chapter, Jon was contemplating the Lannisters and how much he hates them. But he never once thinks of Tyrion or of Tywin, and you'd think that, given Jon's vengeful musings, he would really really be dwelling on this. After all, he liked Tyrion. They were buds. And here Tyrion takes revenge on the Lannisters while Jon takes revenge on Janos Slynt.
Of course, Janos yells 'If Tywin Lannister were still alive, you wouldn't...' When he hears that, Jon doesn't think anything about it, but maybe that's because he's kinda busy at the moment.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:36 PM
I always forget, in the later story, that Tyrion and Jon developed a friendship. I think you're right if word had reached the wall that Tyrion had murdered Tywin you would think Jon would give that event some thought. Particularly in light of Jon's own weird relationship with the man he believes to be his father.
I can't believe Slynt would have known of Tywin's murder without Jon knowing first. If Slynt did somehow get that big news before Jon then Jon was taking a much bigger risk than we thought in seizeing and executing Slynt.
Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison, 31 March 2008 - 12:38 PM.
Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:56 PM
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Jon realizes that Tywin has much more important things to take care of then worry about Janos Slynt being executed on the well. Besides, Tywin doesn't have any power on the wall, except Slynt, to get back at Jon. If he did do something, I think it would be years before, (unless he plans to send some assassins), and I think Jon realises that his struggle with the others will peak before then.
Speaking of assassins, were they sent? Or did that plan get interrupted by what happened to Cersei? I know she wanted to send one of the Kettlebacks to kill Jon.