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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] "New" POV 1 - Spoilers for ADwD


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#1 Ran

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 11:21 AM

Place holder for reports on the "Reek" chapter from the SpectraPulse magazine.

#2 Sansa's Dad

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 05:10 PM

Place holder for reports on the "Reek" chapter from the SpectraPulse magazine.


Don't have time to summarize the excerpt (which is literally four pages), but I can confirm that...

SPOILER: ADWD

It's Theon.


#3 Lany Cassandra

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 09:58 PM

It starts with "Reek" in the dungeon and he catches a rat and is eating it. The person has obviously suffered a whole lot at the hands of the Boltons and he is very much afraid. Some of the torture he endured is revealed when they talk about his finger being flayed. Seems the never dressed or cared for the wounds and the finger was rotting and painful and Reek tried to bite it off.

Reek has to remind himself to "serve and obey' and that his "name is Reek. It rhymes with meek"

When he is brought before the court, Lord Bolton his bastard son and two other lords are present. One is Karstak and I am not sure who the other is. He is old and gaunt and wears a ragged bearskin jerkin. Both little and big Walder are also present and kept well.

Reek's hair and skin have turned white and he looks like an old man. It takes a few minutes before the lords recognize him. Ramsey tells Reek (and it is mad obvious by this point that Reek is Theon) that he is to marry Arya Stark and he wants Reek to serve him when he does. Ramsey has a task for him, but doesn't say what it is, but he is to be cleaned up and fed properly, and he will ride with Ramsey to fetch (fake) Arya.

#4 Harry the Heir

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 11:12 PM

Wow. How the (mildly) mighty have plummeted like a stone.

Is the other perhaps an Umber? (Does Reek mention a missing eye?) We know that they've sided with Bolton.

Also, _which_ Karstark? Is it Arnolf Karstark, or is the chapter unclear?

Edited by The Fat Man, 19 April 2008 - 11:13 PM.


#5 Jughead of the Round

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 11:50 PM

Lord Bolton his bastard son and two other lords are present.


Lord Bolton? It's strange that Bolton is at the Dreadfort, but fake Arya is not. Didn't Walton Steelshanks take Fake Arya to bring to Bolton at the Twins? And didn't it say in AFFC that Ramsay was closing in on Moat Cailin from the North, while Bolton came up from the south? So does this take place after that? It's also odd that the one lord is Karstark, since they have joined with Stannis.

Did Lord Bolton say anything in the chapter, or was it just Ramsay?

Was there any mention of Stannis or his whereabouts in this chapter? Or the Greatjon?

Edited by Jughead of the Round, 19 April 2008 - 11:57 PM.


#6 Atreides

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:20 AM

So are the Karstarks playing Flortent, or just seeing sizing up both sides and seeing who will give them a better offer? After all, it's not like the Boltons would care if the Karstarks pretended to be on Stannis's side and then betrayed him.

#7 Harry the Heir

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:20 AM

Sudden thought:

Isn't the broken, maimed, PTSD-ridden, terrified individual we see in this chapter kind of the least likely king of the Iron Isles you can imagine? If Asha thinks to make him king, she'll need to keep him well out of sight of any potential supporters.

#8 siyrean

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:44 AM

another forum i read deduced that it was indeed the missing Umber that wouldn't come when Roderick called. Hother Umber, discribed as gaunt with a white beard.

(taken from livejournal) :leaving:

#9 Harry the Heir

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:50 AM

This post offers a summary as well. It's mostly interesting for providing descriptions of the two lords:

"One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white bear and a face as hard as winter frost." [...] "The second lord was thin as well, but twisted where the first was straight. One of his shoulders was much higher than the other, and he stooped over his trencher like a vulture over carrion. His eyes were grey and greed, his teeth yellow, his forked bear a tangle of snow and silver."

I assume 'bear' should be 'beard'.

Edited by The Fat Man, 20 April 2008 - 12:51 AM.


#10 urizen

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 04:13 AM

This post offers a summary as well. It's mostly interesting for providing descriptions of the two lords:

"One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white bear and a face as hard as winter frost." [...] "The second lord was thin as well, but twisted where the first was straight. One of his shoulders was much higher than the other, and he stooped over his trencher like a vulture over carrion. His eyes were grey and greed, his teeth yellow, his forked bear a tangle of snow and silver."

I assume 'bear' should be 'beard'.


Does it actually say somewhere that one of the lords is a Karstark?
The descriptions don't say much really, since we don't know what the Lords of the North look like and it's rather vague as to who actually openly supports the Boltons.

on to the speculation :rolleyes:
I suppose either one of the Lords could be Arnolf Karstark. Didn't Richard Karstark and his sons come off as thin and gaunt with great beards?
I doubt either was an Umber since they, at least in my mind, where big, solid men and of course Mors Umber have only one eye.

#11 Ran

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 04:13 AM

The first sure does seem to be Whoresbane, to me.

The latter isn't Crowfood, though, as others have noted. If it's Arnolf Karstark, it would seem he's quite duplicitous, since I believe in one of the Jon chapters we're told that he's Stannis's man in return for Winterfell.

At a guess, it might be Lord Ryswell or one of his quarrelsome cousins, looking at the appendices.

The other report doesn't mention Roose is present at the Dreadfort. Can we get any further confirmation on whether he is or is not in fact there?

Also, any interesting details about the Dreadfort itself?

Edited by Ran, 20 April 2008 - 07:27 AM.


#12 Brady

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 04:36 AM

Yeah it sounds like Whoresbane, he's described as being fairly gaunt.

#13 urizen

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 06:06 AM

Maybe the old twisted Lord is Ondrew Locke. He never shows up at Winterfell in ACOK, supposedly due to his age but maybe he's in cahoots with Ramsay.

Also, do we get any indication as to when this chapter takes place, timelinewise?

#14 Bastard of Godsgrace

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 06:34 AM

Theon meeting fake Arya may have interesting implicatios. Does Ramsay know that he isn't getting real Arya? Will Theon tell him? Does it matter to Ramsay at all?

#15 Turinqui-Calima

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:02 AM

Lord Bolton isn't present.

I'll post more later.

Edited by Turinqui Calima, 20 April 2008 - 07:07 AM.


#16 Besselfunction

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:17 AM

Well, that was creepy. I feel really bad for Theon, I always kind of sympathized with him (victim of circumstances etc.).
I guess GRRM needs someone to show us the meeting between Ramsay and Roose Bolton. Does anyone else think that Ramsay might try to kill his Daddy when they meet?

#17 Lany Cassandra

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:43 AM

Lord Bolton isn't present.

I'll post more later.


I had to reread that. It was that Theon kept referring to Ramsey as the Lord. Sorry guys. I was a little tired last night.

Well, that was creepy.


Indeed. The graphic descriptions were certainly creepy and gave me a bit of a chill. I finised the first rushed reading of it and all I could think was "OMG! I love George!"

Edited by Lany Cassandra, 20 April 2008 - 07:46 AM.


#18 Lany Cassandra

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:50 AM

Also, any interesting details about the Dreadfort itself?


Torture seems to be the main activity at the Dreadfort. Theon is thinking about how he hears all the screaming and how the women scream the loudest. To me it seemed (from his POV) that this happened all the time.

He is being held in the dungeon, and it is very dark and he is rarely fed. His cell is at or near the end and he can hear the foot steps as people (the Walders in this case) approach it. That is when we first get how deep his fear is.

#19 Benjen

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 08:00 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to give GRRM some serious credit if he can make me sympathize for Theon.... I really hate the guy he used to be.

It sounds like Theon doesn't have much will power left to contest Ramsay B (i.e. he's been mentally broken, and bad). So I doubt he would contradict Ramsay to his face about his wife. The fact that he's been picked to go with Ramsay to go meet "Arya" is important, considering Theon has been a prisoner for so long. It's probably so Ramsay can tell Theon exactly what he's supposed to do and say when they get back to the Dreadfort to confirm "Arya's" identity.

Something tells me that trip to meet "Arya" isn't going to go as planned either.

Looking at Theon's current state, he doesn't appear to be good for much but his "king's blood". And being burned to death may be a merciful end considering what he's been through. Sometimes death is better...

Edit: because I've forgotten grammar and how to spell check.

Edited by Benjen, 20 April 2008 - 11:14 AM.


#20 urizen

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 08:14 AM

Well, that was creepy. I feel really bad for Theon, I always kind of sympathized with him (victim of circumstances etc.).
I guess GRRM needs someone to show us the meeting between Ramsay and Roose Bolton. Does anyone else think that Ramsay might try to kill his Daddy when they meet?


I never felt bad for Theon before (I might after this chapter though) because he, in my opinion, was never a victim of circumstance. He brought it upon himself through his stupidity and arrogance. Theon's incapable to take responsibilty for his own actions. It's always someone else's fault, be it Asha, Reek/Ramsay or anybody else. Theon is similar to Jorah Mormont in this case, who blames Ned for his misfortune. Nevermind that Jorah is up to eyeballs in debt and sells his people into slavery, according to him it's Ned who's a dirty, rotten bastard for upholding the law.

Ramsay might try to do in dear old dad if he gets the chance. Before reading the spoiler chapters, especially the Asha chapter, I had the idea that Ramsay would take out Roose at Moat Caillin, either by luring Roose to attack the fortified Ironborn without any support from Ramsay or take Moat Caillin only to rain death upon Roose as he tries to pass.