328 replies to this topic

[Sansa's Dad]

Just to fill in a bit more detail on his condition, not only has Theon's hair gone white and his skin become like an old man's, but he's also a few digits lighter:

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Thusfar he had lost only two fingers off his left hand and the pinky off his right, but only the little toe off his right foot against three from his left. Sometimes Ramsay would make japes about balancing him out.

He's also had some of his teeth broken.

[Jughead of the Round]

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Sometimes Ramsay would make japes about balancing him out.

Good lord, it looks like Theon joins the prestigious list of the Blue Bard and Marillion of individuals tortured to the point  of sanity, with their sense of reality warped by the torturers.

I have a feeling Theon may be called upon to 'verify' the fake Arya in front of the other northern lords at Moat Cailin, and will most likely fail at this once he realizes who the fake Arya is.

[Shaun Snow]

I like the way this storyline has gone. I really wanted to see Theon get his comeuppance but now that he has... its not at all as satisfying as I'd hoped.

[Ser Lany Cassandra]

Shaun Snow, on Apr 20 2008, 10.14, said:

I like the way this storyline has gone. I really wanted to see Theon get his comeuppance but now that he has... its not at all as satisfying as I'd hoped.

it is really hard to not feel sorry for how much of a broken man he is now.  He still has a few thoguhts of "Theon" but he is not the person he once was.  Perhaps he will live again* as "Theon" stronger than before?




* I mean, now he IS Reek, but there are still a few flashes of Theon inside him.

[Turinqui-Calima]

Oh, just wanted to add that the full phrase Ramsey says about the trip is "I ride to war, Reek. And you will be comming with me, to help me fetch home my virgin bride".

Sounds like a lot of things can go wrong during such a trip. I kind of reacted to the "I ride to war".

Edited by Turinqui Calima, 20 April 2008 - 11:18 AM.

[urizen]

Turinqui Calima, on Apr 20 2008, 18.17, said:

Oh, just wanted to add that the full phrase Ramsey says about the trip is "I ride to war, Reek. And you will be comming with me, to help me fetch home my virgin bride".

Sounds like a lot of things can go wrong during such a trip. I kind of reacted to the "I ride to war".

Sounds like just the thing Theon needs to escape. It also sounds like this chapter is happening before the "The Wayward Bride" spoiler chapter, seeing how in that chapter the Ironborn has lost quite a bit to the Boltons.

[Roza Ahai]

If Theon was treated this way, then what happened to other inhabitants of Winterfell? Sounds like they are all in dungeons.

[Benjen]

urizen, on Apr 20 2008, 13.11, said:

Sounds like just the thing Theon needs to escape. It also sounds like this chapter is happening before the "The Wayward Bride" spoiler chapter, seeing how in that chapter the Ironborn has lost quite a bit to the Boltons.

I agree, that little quote certainly makes me think Ramsay may run into to some unexpected opposition and give Theon a chance to escape.

[Ran]

From the other report at the linked Livejournal, it's said that some of the prisoners in the dungeons are women, and that they screamed the most (but everyone screamed).  It sure seems to me that a lot of these would be the women of Winterfell.

[Bronn Stone]

Some unexpected opposition being Asha, IMO.

[Roza Ahai]

Probably, Stannis. Asha was attacked by Northerns first, then by Stannis' army on the same day. Does it mean that Stannis might catch Asha and Theon by one hit?

[Besselfunction]

I dont remember the exact details from the Asha-chapter, but didnt people in the end agree that there was only one faction (Stannis') attacking Deepwood Motte?

[Harry the Heir]

Jughead of the Round, on Apr 20 2008, 08.56, said:

I have a feeling Theon may be called upon to 'verify' the fake Arya in front of the other northern lords at Moat Cailin, and will most likely fail at this once he realizes who the fake Arya is.

Umm... maybe. But while Ramsay is not necessarily as deft as his father, why would he choose Theon Turncloak, murder of Robb Stark's heirs and traitor in the eyes of the north, to verify the identity of Arya Stark? He's got other Winterfell servants around; he could just as easily have brought one of them along (after cleaning them up, of course). He's the least trustworthy man to the people the Boltons need to convince. You might as well resurrect Joffrey for the task.

I think I hold with Besselfunction instead; Theon's task will involve killing Roose, so that Ramsay can become Warden of the North.

Edited by The Fat Man, 20 April 2008 - 01:11 PM.

[Roza Ahai]

Besselfunction, on Apr 20 2008, 14.08, said:

I dont remember the exact details from the Asha-chapter, but didnt people in the end agree that there was only one faction (Stannis') attacking Deepwood Motte?

I am sorry. I am wrong. From Cercei POV in AFFC Ramsay moved to Mot Caillin, not to Deepwood Motte.

[Loras]

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Umm... maybe. But while Ramsay is not necessarily as deft as his father, why would he choose Theon Turncloak, murder of Robb Stark's heirs and traitor in the eyes of the north, to verify the identity of Arya Stark? He's got other Winterfell servants around; he could just as easily have brought one of them along (after cleaning them up, of course). He's the least trustworthy man to the people the Boltons need to convince. You might as well resurrect Joffrey for the task.

Maybe the reason is that he is a Greyjoy, an heir to one of the other kings?  SO if Theon verifies that Arya is Arya Stark then it must be so, Theon doesn't know that Balon is dead at this point.  

I like how GRRM has continued the trend of naming the chapters by how the character sees themselves, first with Sansa and now with Theon, so I hope by the end of the book we get a Theon chapter.  I can't wait to get back inside his head, it sounds like a very different chapter from those we are used to.  Can't wait to read it.

[Harry the Heir]

Loras, on Apr 20 2008, 14.22, said:

Maybe the reason is that he is a Greyjoy, an heir to one of the other kings?  SO if Theon verifies that Arya is Arya Stark then it must be so, Theon doesn't know that Balon is dead at this point.

First off, Theon doesn't know that but presumably Ramsay does (unless this chapter takes place _before_ the Red Wedding, and before any chapter in AFFC), and it's Ramsay who is making the decision. And secondly, isn't Theon's word basically worthless in the north at this point? Admittedly it goes against the Greyjoy interest, but I think most northerners would sooner conclude that Theon was turning his cloak again to ingratiate himself with his captors.

Somebody who was a loyal Winterfell servant for years, however, would have the sort of legitimacy that Theon pissed away already.

[Loras]

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First off, Theon doesn't know that but presumably Ramsay does (unless this chapter takes place _before_ the Red Wedding, and before any chapter in AFFC), and it's Ramsay who is making the decision. And secondly, isn't Theon's word basically worthless in the north at this point? Admittedly it goes against the Greyjoy interest, but I think most northerners would sooner conclude that Theon was turning his cloak again to ingratiate himself with his captors.

But isn't Ramsay going to do both anyway, I mean he now (potentially) has Karstark and Ryswell, who as Northern lords should be able to recognize Arya Stark, their ex-princess.  I don't think for a second that Theon is going to be the only person used to prove that Arya is the real Arya, because if Theon said she wasn't the real one then that wold be it; but if Theon was the only one of a number of council members who said that Arya wasn't real then his word wouldn't mean anywhere as much.  Theon doesn't know that he (by rights) is King of the Isles and the North, but would the fact that Balon is dead be another reason for Ramsay to remove Theon from the dungeon?  

The problem comes with the fact that Theon isn't dealing with Northerners anymore, he is dealing with Stannis Baratheon.  But if you have a northerner (Karstark or Ryswell) and an ironborn (Theon) both saying that this person is the real Arya Stark then that is going to carry a lot of weight.  We just have to hope that Theon can reveal the truth, as his mental state in this chapter suggests otherwise.

[urizen]

Besselfunction, on Apr 20 2008, 20.08, said:

I dont remember the exact details from the Asha-chapter, but didnt people in the end agree that there was only one faction (Stannis') attacking Deepwood Motte?

True, it's Stannis that's attacking Asha at Deepwood Motte. However, before the attack we learn that the Ironborn has lost Moat Caillin and at the moment only holds Deepwood Motte and Torren's Square.

[Bran's Muffin]

Hi. I was the one who posted the livejournal summary. I wanted to address the question about Lord Bolton being there. (Though it was pretty much already answered.) He is not there. Ramsay is ruling the Dreadfort, that's why he's sitting in the Lord's chair when Theon is brought to him. I think that's what makes it so scary (not that the Leech Lord is lots of fun) but everyone is suffering under Ramsay.

As to why he would bring Theon with him to meet fake Arya, Theon was kept as Eddard's ward so he would've had more contact with Arya that some random person at Winterfell. There's no way for Ramsay to know that Arya liked to hang out with the smallfolk. He would naturally assume Theon was the best bet.

I rather hated Theon in all his other chapters but I felt quite badly for him here. Initially he thinks of himself as Reek and I was confused because Reek was killed (when Ramsay took his name) so I was like "What is going on?" but then Ramsay refers to him as Eddard's ward, toward the end. Theon has been tortured so much he has no sense of himself yet. I was actually delighted he remember Arya "Underfoot" because it meant he wasn't totally gone.

Also I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that any "loyal" servant of Eddard Stark is dead now. Anyone who is alive is a turncloak.

Edited by Bran's Muffin, 20 April 2008 - 02:07 PM.

[urizen]

Do we get any cool descriptions of the Dreadfort, or do we only see the dungeons?