328 replies to this topic

[Atreides]

So are the fingers Theon lost his bow-shooting fingers?

[Lone Wolf]

Regarding the two other lords with Ramsey. Are their names actually mentioned in the chapter? or are we only just given descriptions of them?

Do they talk or do anything during the chapter?

[Bran's Muffin]

It doesn't say which fingers were taken. It just says fingers (plural) as well as teeth. (And he mentions that they could take his toes and ears off, but I'm not sure if they've done that or it's something that has been done, just not to him.) Also it says that Ramsay doesn't cut the fingers off. He prefers to flay them and then the wounds fester and they fall off. Theon tried to bite his pinkie finger off (the one that they sent the skin to Catelyn, I assume) to stop it from hurting so badly. After that prisoners learn to beg him to cut them off.

No real descriptions of the Dreadfort. Theon doesn't really have his wits about him to notice things. There are descriptions of Ramsay though, if you're interested. He wears all black except for a pink doublet and he's "still ugly" no matter how fine he dresses.

ETA: Just names for the lords. Theon doesn't recognize them, that's why the descriptions are there. I wasn't sure who they were. Someone on LJ said one was Whoresbane Umber but we haven't figured out the other.

Edited by Bran's Muffin, 20 April 2008 - 03:47 PM.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

My prediction is that there will be an ambush on Ramsey's as his forces go toward the Moat.  And the reason we have Theon's POV is to witness this.  Ramsey's forces are going to be hit by the remainder of Robb's men and the Crannogmen from the South, and Asha's forces and Stannis' forces from the North.

[Wrex]

Holy Crap. Sounds like Theon is in one hell of a state.

[Paul H]

Very interesting...

[Turinqui-Calima]

Bran's Muffin, on Apr 20 2008, 15.44, said:

It doesn't say which fingers were taken. It just says fingers (plural) as well as teeth. (And he mentions that they could take his toes and ears off, but I'm not sure if they've done that or it's something that has been done, just not to him.) Also it says that Ramsay doesn't cut the fingers off. He prefers to flay them and then the wounds fester and they fall off. Theon tried to bite his pinkie finger off (the one that they sent the skin to Catelyn, I assume) to stop it from hurting so badly. After that prisoners learn to beg him to cut them off.

• Although we don't know the exact fingers, it does state that he's only lost the pinky of his right hand, meaning he could still shoot a bow. He's lost two fingers from his left hand, and as we know he's lost a ring finger I assume its the ring finger and pinky.
  
• The excerpt didn't say fingers fell off; it said that the pain after flaying was so bad that the prisoners would beg to lose their fingers. It's described as a game.
  
• Theon tried to bite of his own ring finger, not pinky.
  
• It does say that Theon has lost 4 toes (3 from one foot, but only the small one from the other)

ETA: Poor Theon :(

Edited by Turinqui Calima, 20 April 2008 - 06:03 PM.

[Atreides]

With all the moving forces in the North, we can probably assume that Theon won't remain with Ramsay till his death. So where will he end up finally? Stannis? The Wall? According to the other spoilers Stannis finds Asha, so maybe Theon will escape and flee to the wall. That might be interesting, with each of the major Wall players having a Greyjoy...

[Jughead of the Round]

This chapter was abridged, right? Was there any feeling while you were reading it that parts were skipped or glossed over? Or did it run pretty smoothly?

[Bran's Muffin]

Jughead of the Round, on Apr 20 2008, 21.40, said:

This chapter was abridged, right? Was there any feeling while you were reading it that parts were skipped or glossed over? Or did it run pretty smoothly?

It was very short. I think it was truncated.

[Angalin]

So it was probably just the first part of the chapter, then.  Fair enough.  :)

[Cruella_Da_Oz]

I think I'll reread old Theon chapters and then this one. So it will be more satisfying. I so wanted something like this back then. :) All babykillers should be sent to Ramsey. Too bad about other prisoners though. I don't remember them much but old Nan is probably dead, why would they keep her alive? Now that's sad.

[jack-be-lucky]

Cruella_Da_Oz, on Apr 21 2008, 04.18, said:

All babykillers should be sent to Ramsey.

Including Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane?

[Atreides]

Yeah, so that they could kill him.

[Solice Moon]

Isn't Ramsey the one that actually killed the two kids anyways?

[Harry the Heir]

Bran's Muffin, on Apr 20 2008, 13.56, said:

As to why he would bring Theon with him to meet fake Arya, Theon was kept as Eddard's ward so he would've had more contact with Arya that some random person at Winterfell. There's no way for Ramsay to know that Arya liked to hang out with the smallfolk. He would naturally assume Theon was the best bet.

Not at all. Highborn girls have regular contact with any number of servants, from maesters to men-at-arms to stableboys to maids and on and on. And even if Theon did have some credibility boost from the regular contact, there's still the issue (that everybody's eliding, apparently) that nobody can trust him. The north in particular would hate him, but I'm not sure why Stannis would be more credulous (given that he's generally sour and suspicious by nature).

[Benjen]

The Fat Man, on Apr 21 2008, 11.13, said:

Not at all. Highborn girls have regular contact with any number of servants, from maesters to men-at-arms to stableboys to maids and on and on. And even if Theon did have some credibility boost from the regular contact, there's still the issue (that everybody's eliding, apparently) that nobody can trust him. The north in particular would hate him, but I'm not sure why Stannis would be more credulous (given that he's generally sour and suspicious by nature).

Ramsay could be taking Theon because he is infamous in the North and to some extent well-known. He did live at Winterfell for 10 years and met many of Eddard Stark's bannermen. Pretty much everyone knows his name and have heard tell of his deeds.  Theon's knowledge of the Stark children is undoubtable and more importantly, he'll say whatever Ramsay wants him to (I'd bet Ramsay thinks so, anyway).

[Harry the Heir]

Benjen:

Theon is well-known and infamous in the north for being a betrayer and a turncloak whose oaths count for nothing. I wouldn't use John Walker Lindh as a reference at a job interview, and I wouldn't use Theon to give my realm legitimacy. I'm genuinely surprised that people can't see the problem here.

[Angalin]

The Fat Man, on Apr 21 2008, 11.15, said:

Theon is well-known and infamous in the north for being a betrayer and a turncloak whose oaths count for nothing. I wouldn't use John Walker Lindh as a reference at a job interview, and I wouldn't use Theon to give my realm legitimacy. I'm genuinely surprised that people can't see the problem here.

Theon's problem - well, one of them - is going to be persuading people that this girl is not Arya Stark.  However, he would be the perfect person to off Roose, thus sparing Ramsay's family feelings.  Ahahaha.  ;)

[siyrean]

it really does not make sense to me that the reason Ramsey is taking him is to confirm Arya's identity.