401 replies to this topic

[Lord O' Bones]

Weekapaug, on May 19 2008, 20.33, said:

So generally, I try to think of the opposite of what he says to figure out what is the right answer.  No instant replay doesn't quite make sense, so limiting to just homers works. :)

I agree on both points.

[Jaxom 1974]

Weekapaug, on May 19 2008, 23.33, said:

Instant replay for home runs ONLY.  It would actually speed up the game.

I saw earlier that Skip Bayless thought that instant replay should be used for ALL OUTS.  So generally, I try to think of the opposite of what he says to figure out what is the right answer.  No instant replay doesn't quite make sense, so limiting to just homers works. :)

Saw that today too.  Makes you realize that a Skip Bayliss/Jay Mariotti throw down is a total win/win for everyone else provided they both kill each other in the ring.  

Sorry, though.  No instant replay is a bad idea over all.  For home runs would makes sense, but it still takes the away from the game.  How would stopping to review speed things up faster than stopping to have the umps stop to consult with each other?

[Lord O' Bones]

Jaxom 1974, on May 19 2008, 20.39, said:

How would stopping to review speed things up faster than stopping to have the umps stop to consult with each other?

By having a replay official in the press booth like hockey does,* and not a specially hooded viewscreen like football does.

*Yes I know hockey reviews often take a long time, but when have you ever seen a homerun (or not) on review that you couldn't call for certain on the first pass?

[Week]

Jaxom 1974, on May 19 2008, 23.39, said:

Sorry, though.  No instant replay is a bad idea over all.  For home runs would makes sense, but it still takes the away from the game.  How would stopping to review speed things up faster than stopping to have the umps stop to consult with each other?

Did you see how long it took for them to make the call...get all the umps together and have a little pow wow...then Randolf has to come out and pitch.  It would all be solved in literally 30 seconds of the crew chief going to a monitor and seeing one replay.  

I'll cut off the tradition Nazis before they get there...I don't want replay on every play.  I don't want umps to be replaced by computers. etc. etc.

[Caliban]

Im done arguing DH. Hopefully the NL will never change. Though it does put us at a disadvantage in the WS. You cant argue against that.

Umpires are a part of baseball. I dont want instant replay in any form. I want the umps to call the games. I like pitchers exploiting a unique zone. I like the uncertainty of looking at the umpire to make a call when at the game. Every call does not have to be made correctly. The games go on, and after the game there is another one. Umpires are one of the things i like about the game, what makes baseball unique. Seriously, in the scheme of the games history, who really cares that the Cards lost the 85 series. I think the Denkinger call is an awesome moment in the games history. Not cause i hate the cards, just that its a chapter in the games history that is unique to the sport.

ETA: My issue with replays has absolutely nothing to do with the delay involved. I dont care about that. I like the uncertainty. I like the fact that the offciating is an active part of the game. The fact that every call will not be correct means little to me.

Re Edmonds catch:

Edmonds did what he has done his whole career. He made a routinish play look like a great play. He turned the wrong way and tracked that ball most of the way on an angle that ball was not moving to. Then he spun and made it look like a spectacular over the shoulder basket catch. I have seen Edmonds do that for years. If its not that then hes slowing up and half diving for the ball. Hes a dog shit showboater. He sucks. I shook my head when i saw that catch. Just shook my head. Its so obvious he miss-played it. Pie is standing under that ball. Doesnt make the highlight reel.


RE Cards

I like that Pujols showed how to hit a homer in Petco. Hit it 500 feet in the alley. God love this years candidates for Cardinal who inexplicably and massively fortunately becomes really goood out of fucking nowhere. Ryan Ludwick and Todd Wellemeyer are in the running. Before this year for sure i thought Kyle Loshe would be an all star or some such statistical aberition.

And if Jesus were to come again as a righthanded setup guy, id imagine hed pitch a shit load like Carlos Marmol. The man is one of the most valuable arms in baseball and he isnt a starter, or an espn beloved closer.

Edited by Caliban, 19 May 2008 - 11:36 PM.

[Jaxom 1974]

Whiskeyjack, on May 19 2008, 23.30, said:

Hyperbole makes for really stupid arguments.

The validity of the DH is a really stupid argument.  I've been calling to get away from it since we'll never come to concensus on it.  Why not pepper with some hyperbole?  :P

Although, one more comment.  Heard this on The Score yesterday.  During interleague play, for the benefit of the fans, when the AL team comes to the NL park, that's when you have a DH.  When the NL team goes to the AL park, the pitchers hit.  Spice up interleague a little more.

Edited by Jaxom 1974, 20 May 2008 - 08:19 AM.

[Crow's Eye]

Caliban, on May 19 2008, 23.09, said:

Umpires are a part of baseball. I dont want instant replay in any form. I want the umps to call the games. I like pitchers exploiting a unique zone. I like the uncertainty of looking at the umpire to make a call when at the game. Every call does not have to be made correctly. The games go on, and after the game there is another one. Umpires are one of the things i like about the game, what makes baseball unique. Seriously, in the scheme of the games history, who really cares that the Cards lost the 85 series. I think the Denkinger call is an awesome moment in the games history. Not cause i hate the cards, just that its a chapter in the games history that is unique to the sport.

Couldn't agree more.  The fact that each ump has a slightly different strike zone makes the game more interesting.  I cannot stand the idea of those QuesTech (or whatever it's called) ballparks that evaluate whether an ump is precise enough with his zone.  The human element has always been a part of baseball officiating  - complete with arguments, comments, etc.  The umps are part of the game, rather than somehow standing outside it, as would be the case as more and more umpire decisions are subjected to instant replay.  

And really, over the course of a 162-game season, the bad calls all even out.  

Quote

Re Edmonds catch:

Edmonds did what he has done his whole career. He made a routinish play look like a great play. He turned the wrong way and tracked that ball most of the way on an angle that ball was not moving to. Then he spun and made it look like a spectacular over the shoulder basket catch. I have seen Edmonds do that for years. If its not that then hes slowing up and half diving for the ball. Hes a dog shit showboater. He sucks. I shook my head when i saw that catch. Just shook my head. Its so obvious he miss-played it. Pie is standing under that ball. Doesnt make the highlight reel.

I missed that play live, but heard the announcers going on and on about it during a later at bat.  When they finally showed a replay, I was completely underwhelmed.  Initally misplaying a ball and making an unnecessary showboat catch out of it is apparently considered a great play (a WEB GEM), while being able to track/catch the same ball without much effort gets you sent to the minors, I guess.  

Not only is Pie standing under that ball, but both Johnson and Fukudome would have also made that catch without fanfare.  Hell, if you can't make that catch, you don't belong in the major leagues.  

Quote

And if Jesus were to come again as a righthanded setup guy, id imagine hed pitch a shit load like Carlos Marmol. The man is one of the most valuable arms in baseball and he isnt a starter, or an espn beloved closer.

Lol.  The guy's just got nasty stuff.  Might be the best relief pitcher in baseball right now, bar none.  I've come to like the fact that Lou didn't announce him as being the "closer", because then by the current baseball mindset dictated by ESPN, he can only come in in the 9th inning, and then only if the lead is 3 runs or less.  This guy's way too valuable to constrain like that - I love that he can be brought into any situation when the fire really needs to be put out, and no one's worried about whether Lou's misusing his closer or whether using him early is a demotion, etc.

[ROLF]

Weekapaug, on May 19 2008, 22.34, said:

The Dodgers haven't won a world series since 1988 and they are 6-12 in the world series.  Hows that feeling?

Dude, seriously.  You're going to tell me that the Dodgers historic franchise is nothing compared to the Red Sox simply because you've won a WS more recently?  Really?

Boys of Summer?  Jackie Robinson?  Koufax?  Drysdale?  Garvey?  Valenzuela?  Duke?

Not jumping on your shit, as I know you've got to stay true to your team...but Id take an all-time Dodgers team and put it up against pretty much any other team with the exception of the Yankees and I think we come out on top.

Also be fair, six of those losses came from '41 - '53 to the Yankees, who had one of the most insane lineups at that time ever.

Oh also: Brooklyn also won championships in 1858, 1864 and 1866 before becoming a professional franchise. Brooklyn was American Association champions in 1889 and National League champions in 1890, 1899 and 1900, before there was a World Series.  In case I want to get really crazy.

Anyhow...interesting note regarding the Dodgers/Giants rivalry...O'Malley was told he couldnt move the team to LA without another franchise in CA, I believe the closest team to the West Coast at that time was St Louis or Minnesota...so he talked the Giants owner at the time, Stoneham, into moving forward with his negotiations with SF.   And the rivalry continues...

(Sidenote, I still hate O'Malley for attempting to trade Jackie Robinson to the Giants, but Jackie retired so the trade was nixed.  I know Jackie was old, but O'Malley hated the fact that Robinson held Branch Rickey in much higher esteem than O'Malley.)

Continue with your instant replay discussion, just thought Id interject a bit of Dodgers history there.  :P

YW

[Week]

Y-dub, I was just joking...responding to the fact that he called the Red Sox the biggest joke in baseball 5 years ago.  The Dodgers are a great franchise, all the way back to Brooklyn obviously, and will always be remembered for a number of great moments (Jackie Robinson in particular).  They do still hold the worst record in the WS other than the cubs though :P.  But that is partly because they've been in it 18 times.

[Week]

Mike Piazza, one of the greatest hitting catchers in baseball history, retired today.

Too bad, I think he could possibly have something left in his bat to help a team, but he is just such a liability at the plate because of his age and he was never particularly good.

[Triskele]

Caliban, on May 19 2008, 23.09, said:

RE Cards

I like that Pujols showed how to hit a homer in Petco. Hit it 500 feet in the alley. God love this years candidates for Cardinal who inexplicably and massively fortunately becomes really goood out of fucking nowhere. Ryan Ludwick and Todd Wellemeyer are in the running. Before this year for sure i thought Kyle Loshe would be an all star or some such statistical aberition.

That Ludwick is succeeding not shocking.  That he has 12 bombs and is hitting .350 blows my mind.  I think he hit about .280 with a little pop his first year last year.  (I think he probably played too many games to be ROY this year but I'm not certain)

Wellmeyer has been a very pleasant surprise but Cal, if you watched the Sunday night game a few weeks ago between us, doesn't it look like he has pretty good "stuff" once you watch him?

I just barely had heard of him until now.  

Mad props for Lester and Varitek.

[Whiskeyjack]

Triskele, on May 20 2008, 15.46, said:

That Ludwick is succeeding not shocking.  That he has 12 bombs and is hitting .350 blows my mind.  I think he hit about .280 with a little pop his first year last year.  (I think he probably played too many games to be ROY this year but I'm not certain)

Ludwick has 2 years and 109 days of service time.  Definitely not eligible for rookie of the year.  The guy is a 29 year old journeyman.  His first chance in the majors came in 2002 with Texas.  So yeah....this is more than a little bit shocking, regardless of what he did last year (.267 AVG, 14 HR, 52 RBI).  He was a 2nd round pick back in 1999, and was an okay prospect at one time, but still, its a surprise.

[Week]

You know...Varitek has caught nearly 7 no-hitters.  Other than the record 4 he caught...there is Schilling's 1 hitter from last year and then two transcendent performances by Pedro.  9/10/99- Pedro strikes out 17 Yankees and gives up 1 hit (Chili Davis home run) and in August of the next year he struck out 13 Devil Rays en route to a 1 hitter (broken up by John Flaherty...JOHN FLAHERTY!) in the 9th.

[Triskele]

Whiskeyjack, on May 20 2008, 17.10, said:

Ludwick has 2 years and 109 days of service time.  Definitely not eligible for rookie of the year.  The guy is a 29 year old journeyman.  His first chance in the majors came in 2002 with Texas.  So yeah....this is more than a little bit shocking, regardless of what he did last year (.267 AVG, 14 HR, 52 RBI).  He was a 2nd round pick back in 1999, and was an okay prospect at one time, but still, its a surprise.

Fuck ESPN.  When the Cardinals first started playing him, ESPN showed a highlight of him getting a hit and prefaced it with the anchor saying "Prospect alert."  That to me strongly implied that he was just brought up...for the first time.  

I did know that he wasn't that young but I had no idea he'd seen the major with another team.

[naz]

Re: Piazza

This quote makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Quote

"Last but certainly not least, I can't say goodbye without thanking the  fans,"� Piazza said. "I can't recall a time in my career where I didn't feel  embraced by all of you. Los Angeles, San Diego, Oakland and Miami" - whether it  was at home or on the road, you were all so supportive over the years."

But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career,  was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship  with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will  always be grateful."�

Edited by nazfyratu, 20 May 2008 - 05:44 PM.

[Myshkin]

Caliban, on May 19 2008, 21.09, said:

Im done arguing DH. Hopefully the NL will never change. Though it does put us at a disadvantage in the WS. You cant argue against that.

Umpires are a part of baseball. I dont want instant replay in any form. I want the umps to call the games. I like pitchers exploiting a unique zone. I like the uncertainty of looking at the umpire to make a call when at the game. Every call does not have to be made correctly. The games go on, and after the game there is another one. Umpires are one of the things i like about the game, what makes baseball unique. Seriously, in the scheme of the games history, who really cares that the Cards lost the 85 series. I think the Denkinger call is an awesome moment in the games history. Not cause i hate the cards, just that its a chapter in the games history that is unique to the sport.

ETA: My issue with replays has absolutely nothing to do with the delay involved. I dont care about that. I like the uncertainty. I like the fact that the offciating is an active part of the game. The fact that every call will not be correct means little to me.

This is the second time I find myself in total agreement with Cal.  It's really starting to weird me out.

[Lord O' Bones]

Myshkin, on May 20 2008, 15.46, said:

This is the second time I find myself in total agreement with Cal.  It's really starting to weird me out.

It's been a wierd couple of days.   :cheers:



Bum.

[Sal Paradise]

Just some observations that I would like your thoughts on:

1) I know it's been reported, but the Yankees really do look dead.  Watching the game right now and they have no life.  Regardless of whether you are a fan or not (I am not; my disdain for Chamberlain has been stated here before), their pathetic explosion following deliberately throwing at some Orioles (whom are killing them) was pathetic.  Chamberlain shuffling his bulk out there was posturing, not intimidating.  Anyway, they look lost, which is something that I haven't seen out of them before.

2) Where the hell did Dan Uggla come from?  I realize that he's had pretty consistent power, but he has been flat out raking lately.  He's been over .300 for too long for me to ignore it.  Good for him, and the Marlins.

3) Hafner looks done.  Hard to believe that it was only 2 years ago he was feared.

4) It's difficult for a star to be underrated, but I feel like Cole Hamels has quietly put together a series of very impressive starts.  The Phils bats, usually so productive, have failed in providing him run support while he regularly strikes out 8 - 10.

5) Good for Jon Lester.  I'm not a Sox fan (and don't want to fan the flames of the posts above) but that story made me very happy.

6) Andruw Jones sucks.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Sal Paradise, on May 20 2008, 20.04, said:

Just some observations that I would like your thoughts on:

1) I know it's been reported, but the Yankees really do look dead.  Watching the game right now and they have no life.  Regardless of whether you are a fan or not (I am not; my disdain for Chamberlain has been stated here before), their pathetic explosion following deliberately throwing at some Orioles (whom are killing them) was pathetic.  Chamberlain shuffling his bulk out there was posturing, not intimidating.  Anyway, they look lost, which is something that I haven't seen out of them before.

While I'll be the first one to jump on the train of Yankee bashing - and especially Joba the Hutt, who I think is kind of a punk after him throwing over Youkilis' (?) head in that one game last year - I can tell you that as an Orioles fan, I was watching that game from start to finish, and Chamberlain did not pitch in the game.

EDIT: Having re-read this post, I suddenly realize it's entirely possible (and likely) that you meant Chamberlain coming out when the benches emptied. And you know what... I'd take Daniel Cabrera against Joba if it came down to it.

It was pretty much obvious that somebody on the Os was going to get hit after Jeter got hit in the hand in the third inning on a ball that came a little inside. Hawkins, however, threw way inside on Luke Scott later in the game (Luuuuuuke dodged the first pitch at chest level and had to duck out of the way of a second at helmet level) and then got tossed and the benches emptied. Luuuuuuke got back at them by hitting a 2-run bomb later in the game.

Classic A-Rod homer: 2 run shot when you're down by 10 runs? You bet.

Edited by Mack Kilimaro, 20 May 2008 - 09:38 PM.

[Sal Paradise]

Yes, I was referencing Joba prancing out of the dugout, eager to defend Hawkins who had gone headhunting at Luke Scott.