147 replies to this topic

[Paxter]

Who is the worst dad in Westeros?

The candidates are:

Robert Baratheon: sired 16 bastards and pretty much took no responsibility for them (except Edric Storm). Should be held responsible for the abomination that is Joffrey Baratheon (although Joff wasn't his true son).

Jaime Lannister: doesn't seem to love his three kids at all. Though I suppose you can't blame him for it as the kids themselves did not know he was the father.

Balon Greyjoy: is a real prick towards Theon when they meet each other for the first time since Theon's went to Winterfell

Tywin Lannister: no explanation required.

Randyll Tarly: sent his heir to the Wall

Eddard Stark: perhaps a surprising inclusion. But I know that some people don't have a high regard for his skills as a father so I've added him here anyway. Didn't really do much to save Lady or defend Arya in the incident with Joff. Should have probably dealt with Sansa differently in KL.

Jon Arryn: should have kept Lysa well away from Robert.

Stannis Baratheon: doesn't show a lot of love for Shireen. Gives her a somewhat disturbing playmate.

Hoster Tully: raised Lysa.

Craster: obviously

Other nominations: Walder Frey, Roose Bolton and Doran Martell.

Edit: Clegane Snr. (as nominated by various boarders on this thread)

Edit: feel free to nominate others as appropriate

As a side-note: IMO best dad in Westeros is Davos Seaworth (OK so he's a smuggler, but he's a nice smuggler...)

Edited by Paxter, 29 June 2008 - 09:33 AM.

[Harlot]

Craster:  sexually abuses his daughters and leaves his sons to be food for the Others.  Say what you will about the others on the list but none of them approach this level of failure at fatherhood.

[Lady Blackfish]

I think Tywin.  There is Robert and Randyll too, but Tywin is 0 for 3 -- not that I don't like all his children as characters but they all have major issues that are very related to him.  Jaime doesn't have a stellar record either but part of him still wants to make a good go of it deep down (whether he'll act on that in a meaningful way remains to be seen).  I really dislike Randyll and Robert in father capacities as well however.  

(Oh of course Craster, how did I miss him on the list.  Well maybe he takes the cake, yes.)

Edited by Lady Blackfish, 27 June 2008 - 09:46 PM.

[WhiteWalker]

in Roberts case, he was a man who liked his wenches, half the time he was in his cups when he made those bastards, so i would vote him out.

As for jamie, he is a vile person for fathering bastards, through INCEST, with the QUEEN. but you ruled him out when you broght up the fact of them not knowing. in ASOS he tells cersei that he would have shown more care to his kids had they known he was the father.

Balon greyjoy IS a prick. and i agree with you there.

Eddard i feel is a great father figure. he was trying to show his kids that they need to take responsibility for their actions no matter the cause, which is why he died without protest, even though he was not guilty.

Jon Arryn was an old bag and anyways lysa snapped AFTER he died. im glad the bitch is gone though. she creeped me out.

Stannis, i find (havent read AFFC yet) treats shireen quite well, when melisandre isnt hogging his ass.

no comment on hoster.

Craster is just a nasty hick. when i heard of him first, i thought of Deliverance.

Walder frey, now theres a question. other than making fun of his family members for vaarious reasons, the man is half mad. i wouldnt be surprised if he ended up like jinglebell. hes more of a bad bannerman than a bad father. >_>

I agree with you on Davos, he is the best father figur ive seen as of yet. even towards people who arent his blood. he risked his position as Hand and maybe even his life for sending edric off.

My idea for the worst dad is Tywin Lannister. He is a lying, cheating, biased, prick who ive only seen show love towards jamie and cersei. He treats Tyrion like shit, i can understand hes a bit vexed about his wifes death, but its his damned son for gods sake not some demon. Tyrion in all honesty was a good fellow. he knew right from wrong and saw potential in the smallest of characters, and also showed kindness and respect to those who disliked him (Shae, Jon, Arya, sansa) i was glad when Tyrion shot his prick of a father in the stomach.

so in my opinion, Tywin Lannister surpasses all other fathers for this one.

[MTGAP]

Randyll Tarly isn't necessarily a bad father, he just thinks that the realm is more important than his son. I see no problem with that. I'm not saying I'd want him as a father, I'm just saying he has other priorities.

Robert at least recognized that Joff was a vile demon-child.

Craster is the worst, but he's not even trying.

I think Tywin is the worst, for reasons that have already been stated.

[Paxter]

MTGAP, on Jun 28 2008, 12.02, said:

Randyll Tarly isn't necessarily a bad father, he just thinks that the realm is more important than his son. I see no problem with that. I'm not saying I'd want him as a father, I'm just saying he has other priorities.

Are you saying that Randyll sent Sam to the Wall for the good of the realm? How exactly is that prioritising the realm over his son?

IMO what Randyll prioritises over his son is his own pride. He just can't stand the thought that his heir is fat/a wimp/no good at hunting/fighting/anything physical/wants to be a maester. The fact that Randyll can't accept Sam for who he really is makes him a terrible father. A good father gives unconditional love and support to his offspring - he doesn't send them to the Wall. Personally, I think Randyll is comfortably a worse father than Tywin. At least Tywin didn't offer Tyrion the "choice" of joining the Night's Watch or dying in a "hunting accident."

[Armadius]

Craster, for a bunch of reasons. I'm also not big on Tywin, but he did SOME stuff right... Tyrion turned out to be an okay guy, even if it's despite his dad.

[Red Lion of Castamere]

I disagree about Ned being a bad father. He may have had some small flaws, but he was great at teaching his children important lessons. He understood what it meant to be a good Lord and a good man, and he wanted his kids to be good people as well. Some people may think that exposing young children to an execution is wrong, but Ned only tried to prepare his kids for the realities of life in Westeros.

I think it is probably a tie between Tywin and Craster. Craster was not a father at all to his kids, just a cruel sexual abuser with no heart or compassion for his kids. Tywin only cared about his image and the image of his house, even if it came at the expense of his kids. I also dislike them for all the other reasons people posted.

[Paxter]

Red Lion of Castamere, on Jun 28 2008, 14.19, said:

but Ned only tried to prepare his kids for the realities of life in Westeros.

Well he certainly prepared his male children for "the realities of life in Westeros". But he taught Sansa virtually nothing. And that ultimately proved to be Ned's downfall as Sansa betrayed his plans to Cersei.  

BTW I must admit that I am playing devil's advocate here because, by and large, I do agree with you that Ned was a decent father. But he wasn't perfect.

Edited by Paxter, 28 June 2008 - 01:36 AM.

[VorianGR]

For the shake of argument, put Craster in a whole different level and discuss about the rest.

You just can't beat the bad fathering of that guy.

[Anatole Kuragin]

What's with the Randyll hate?  He sent his weakling son to the wall.  So what?  By doing he so he may have hundreds or thousands of lives of people who depend on Horn Hill to protect them.  Tough love?  Sure.  Bad father?  Not at all.  

I think I'd throw in my lot with Craster.

[Paxter]

Anatole Kuragin, on Jun 28 2008, 15.47, said:

He sent his weakling son to the wall.

Thanks for expaining why Randyll is such a pathetic human being. He thinks that a good liege lord is physically strong and a fearless battle commander, someone who can be trusted to lead the van in a pitched battle.

He forgets the importance of qualities such as intelligence and wisdom - qualities which people like Maester Aemon see in Sam. If Randyll was half the man that Maester Aemon is, he too would have recognised Sam's potential and would have been proud to have him as a son. Instead, Randyll sends him to the wall. Frankly, I hope that one day Sam gets to drive Heartsbane through Randyll's throat. That would be sweet.

Edited by Paxter, 28 June 2008 - 03:20 AM.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Because it's completely irrelevant for a lord of medium power to not be an easily intimidated, craven cowardly wretch.

BUT HE'S LIK SMART!!11

It doesn't matter, baby, it doesn't matter.

[Lady Blackfish]

Things like:

Quote

If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die ... or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman's heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are.

make it hard to dig Randyll Tarly as a dad.


Ned, indeed, was not perfect, but generally a great father.  Just not perfect.  Who is?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Lady Blackfish, on Jun 28 2008, 03.21, said:

Things like:

make it hard to dig Randyll Tarly as a dad.


Ned, indeed, was not perfect, but generally a great father.  Just not perfect.  Who is?

Tarly is perfect, I'm just one of the 77 people who understands this.

You have to think about that quote in the context, as Tarly is not only father to Dickon and Sammy, he is also father to all who look to him for protection and leadership.  Randyll was thinking of them when he sent his son away.

[Paxter]

Lady Blackfish, on Jun 28 2008, 16.21, said:

Ned, indeed, was not perfect, but generally a great father.  Just not perfect.  Who is?

As I alluded to earlier, I would venture to say that Davos is closer to the perfect dad than Ned. Just my opinion though.

Great quote from Randyll by the way Lady Blackfish. Pretty much shows that Randyll is scum of the earth. Probably only a few steps away from Craster (both willing to kill their own sons)

Edited by Paxter, 28 June 2008 - 03:29 AM.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Other-in-law, on Jun 28 2008, 03.32, said:

What was he thinking when he said:
"Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are."?
Maybe that being a sadistic prick makes him a good father?   :rolleyes:

I don't think it hurts his chances as much as some...

[hnv]

Paxter, on Jun 27 2008, 21.39, said:

Who is the worst dad in Westeros?

The candidates are:

Robert Baratheon: bad father but the kids didn't realy like him either

Jaime Lannister: not his kids...well he didn't raise them

Balon Greyjoy: theon was a wuss as an ironman I wouldn't want him as heir

Tywin Lannister: what a tool

Randyll Tarly: why is he bad? well maby a bad father but sending sam to the wall was a great desicion for the tarlys, sam was a pussy he wasn't worthy of leading the family or wielding heartsbane, randyll was 100% correct here

Eddard Stark: no comment

Jon Arryn: agreed, should have slapped robert around and put him off the teat

Stannis Baratheon: he does love his daughter a lot it is clear

Hoster Tully: knob

Craster: phhh yeah

Other nominations: Walder Frey, Roose Bolton and Doran Martell.

[Paxter]

Quote

why is he bad? well maby a bad father

Ummm...I don't know if you've read the title to this thread but, yes, we are discussing bad fathers. Good to see that you agree that Randyll's skills as a father leave a lot to be desired.

Quote

he does love his daughter a lot it is clear

Is Stannis capable of love?