Worst mother in Westeros

[Paxter]

Following on from the worst dad in Westeros thread it seemed logical to start up some discussion on the equivalent topic for mothers.

The nominees are:

[b]Catelyn Stark (Tully)[/b]: didn't do the greatest of jobs with Sansa. At all.

[b]Cersei Baratheon (Lannister)[/b]: the woman who raised Joffrey is an obvious candidate (although Tommen and Myrcella seem like pretty nice kids)

[b]Olenna Tyrell (Redwyne)[/b]: I think she really stuffed up with Mace. He just seems, well, simple. You think that she might have taught him to play the game of thrones with a little more subtlety.

[b]Lysa Arryn (Tully)[/b]: no explanation required

[b]Sybell Westerling (Spicer)[/b]: basically forced her daughter to marry Robb just so that she could curry favour with the Lannisters. Mind you, Jeyne didn't seem to mind being the wife of a king (even if it was only for a short time). Still, she did manipulate her daughter to some extent.

[b]Mellario Martell[/b]: I understand that she got pissed off when Quentyn was sent to the Yronwoods. But still, that's no reason to abandon your family and move to Norvos.

[b]Melessa Tarly (Florent)[/b]: could she have done more to protect Sam from Randyll's wrath? Maybe not. But I still think she deserves to be on the list.

Feel free to suggest any more nominees as they come to mind. It will be interesting to see if we get a clear-cut winner like we did in the "worst dads" thread (which Craster absolutely dominated).

Personally, my money's on Lysa.

[hnv]

Lysa arynn

[Mezeh]

Sersei definitely. Tommen and Myrcella are quite nice but only because she obviously neglected them both since she loved Joff so much.
Then Lysa but she has some mitigating factors.
With the rest of nominees I disagree – none of them are bad mothers at all.

[Coffee]

For me, it's Lysa, who I don't even need to explain.

[Jaak]

Remember Delena and Wylla as well.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Seriously, the Randyll Tarly prejudice has gone far enough. Bringing the wife into it? Pretty low.

[Paxter]

[quote name='Jaak' post='1438076' date='Jul 13 2008, 23.00']Remember Delena and Wylla as well.[/quote]

I did consider adding Delena to my original post but we don't really know much about how she's raised Edric (in fact, he seems a nice kid so she might have done a really good job). And I don't think you can take the circumstances of Edric's conception into account. IMO a mother should be judged on what she does post-conception, not pre-conception.

Wyalla, of course, we know little or nothing about. As far as I recall anyway.

Edit: well Anatole, I think that your Randyll Tarly love has "gone far enough". Bringing your Randyll Tarly love into this? Pretty low.

[crannoggirl]

Lysa first place with Cersei as a close second. Lysa is so absorbed in Sweetrobin that she never tries to do whats best for him but keeps him at the level of a three year old so he can be totally dependent on her, just so she can feel loved and needed. Cersei at least usually tries to do what she thinks is best for her kids. Her world view is just so twisted that it never is really whats best for them. And yes, she obviously favored Joff, and is def the 2nd worse.

[Robb19]

I don't know how it gets worse than deceiving your daughter into an abortion. Sure Lysa is crazy and Cersei is all sorts of messed up...at the very least this is a three horse race.

[Errant Bard]

Technically, Sybell Westerling never forced Jeyne to abort, she only gave her the pill, while saying it was some fortifiant. Not even a foetus killed. Still pretty awful, of course.

And I don't understand the Catelyn nomination, truly. It's like you think she should be on the list but can't find a good reason for it. I don't see Ned called "worse dad of Westeros" for what Sansa did of her own free will and against the education given to her.

[SkyPirate]

Lysa Arryn Lysa Arryn Lysa Arryn. She does have some migitating factors but seriously, Sweetrobin is one little mess. Need I remind you all of the breastfeeding? crannoggirl said it well, she's keeping him dependent on her so she can feel loved.
Cersei is second, but at least she has two somewhat normal kids (though it could be said that they're normal [i]because[/i] she's not mothering them).

Catelyn shouldn't even be on the list.

[siyrean]

the thing with Sansa, is that neither parents thought to teach her how to think. they tought her to be a proper lady (thinking optional). is it any wonder when the first time she actually tries it, she screws up.

[King Bronn]

I'm torn between Lysa and Sybell. I almost want to cut Lysa some slack since I think she's, uh, not got all the lights on upstairs... but hey, a bad mother is a bad mother, whether you can help it or not. Still, I think Sybell cares less about her daughter's happiness than Lysa cares about her son's.

I agree that Catelyn shouldn't be on the list. Another thing about Sansa is that most of her ideas about being a proper lady came from Septa Mordane. Nominate Septa Mordane for the worst tutor in Westeros? ;)

[Shewoman]

Cersei's my number one bid. I think it's telling that the only one of her kids who turned out to be a monster was the only one she ever paid much attention to. And Joff, I think, wanted parental affection--didn't he send the assassin after Bran because Robert said something along the lines of Brans' life no longer being worth living and he'd kill a child of his in such a situation?

Lysa is, if possible, even more screwed up than Cersei. But Cersei gets my top vote because her kid as king is able to do all kinds of horrible thinks and Sweetrobin doesn't have that much power.

[Red Lion of Castamere]

Hard for me to decide between Cersei and Lysa. Both are utterly horrible. Both wanted to keep their kids safe, but thats about the only positive quality they had. Cersei raised one of the biggest monsters in the series and he was her favorite child for god knows why. Lysa raised Robert in a purely selfish way that not only screwed the child up, but screwed the realm up in many ways.

Sybell would be the next on my list, but not quite as bad.

A few of the others on the list dont belong there IMO.

[Wouter]

Sansa actually has been raised very well for the role she was supposed to be playing, that of wife to some major lord. As Tyrion notes when he takes her around to greet the various guests at Joffrey's wedding. She does have a certain grace. And normally, that was what would have happened to her.

My choice for the topic is Sybel Westerling. Treated her daughter like dirt.

[Ealasaid]

Yes, Sansa is mannerly.

My choices are Lysa and Cersei. For all the obvious reasons.

Lysa can't help Robert Arryn's physical problems, but she certainly did not help him thrive - mentally. And as pointed out, she made him dependent on her to a disgusting degree.

[oldnan]

Lysa for the mentions above, Cersei next, and I'm gonna throw Cat in there as third. Not just for the Sansa thing, but for the lack of interaction with most of her children. We see Ned interact with everyone I think with the exception of Rickon.

Can't recall a single Cat and Arya moment and anyone who wants to bring up Bran she already stated that he was her favorite.

[El Regrs]

I dunno about Catelyn being on the list, either. She loves her kids. She [i]cares [/i]about her kids. She certainly wants the best for them, and she tries, but it's kind of hard to keep track of all of them when murder attempts are being made on one and the others are scattering like mice all over the place. At one point she even says (to Brienne?) she wishes there were five of her so that she could watch over all of them.

I'll admit I can't recall a moment with Catelyn and Arya (haven't given GoT a full reread yet), but I know she interacts with Robb a lot in SoS.

[oldnan]

That's because she went and followed him into battle. When Bran was injured despite the fact that there was nothing she could do she stayed by his side. Not a bad thing, but she has more than just one kid. Her husband had departed for KL and she left Robb to handle the majority of the business including Rickon.

By all means she could've come see him during the day at any time and post a guard or something in the room when he woke up!


I know she cares about her kids and after everything she's been through of course she wants them back. There's just a slight chance that things could have gone differently if she hadn't run off...but then we wouldn't have any cool Bran chapters.