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#1 Errant Bard

Errant Bard

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 06:13 PM

Ok, so I finished my global reread and timeline, and there are several points that I cannot remove (here is my spreadsheet file with relations between dates):

  • In AGOT, Tyrion comes back from the wall way too fast, and Catelyn moves up from KL way too slow, yet it is necessary for them to meet in in the crossroad inn
  • Cersei knows about Tyrion Waters some three months after he is born, yet, it's hard to compress the timeline further so the riots happened 3 months later.
  • In AFFC, Cersei burn the tower of the hand a lot of time after Tywin's funeral, that does not make much sense, yet it has to happen after ASOS Arya 13 and the rape of Saltpans.
  • Stannis arrives at the Wall extremely fast, considering when he gets the news, yet I had a hard time making it longer, as he needs to rescue Jon, and Jon cannot fight Mance for months.
  • Sam, due to the speed of ships, should arrive in Oldtown very late in year 300, yet by then, the captain of the huntress tells him that Cersei is still in command and the Redwyne fleet is still bogged down somewhere. I guess it could fit if Cersei were to somehow become free and reassign the fleet elsewhere, but it's a bit far fetched. Compressing time would mean, yet again, teleporting ships, and even then Sam needs to synch with Arya, and this means not being in synch with Cersei, arg....
As for the timeline in text format, for those interested:
26/03/283 Cat's Wedding
13/02/286 Joff birth

Year 297
22/04/297 Dany arrives in Pentos
25/05/297 Dany turns 13
22/10/297 Dany 1 Dany meets Drogo
15/12/297 Sansa turns 11
21/12/297 Dany 2 Wedding

Year 298
February
10/02/298 Joffrey's name day
24/02/298 Jon Arryn Dies

March
02/03/298 Prologue Waymar Royce dies
22/03/298 Bran 1 Gared caught
22/03/298 Cat 1 message from KL

April
01/04/298 Arya turns 9
10/04/298 Vyserys humiliated, Dany becomes pregnant

May
20/05/298 Ned 1 Robert arrives in WinterFell
20/05/298 Jon 1 Welcoming feast
25/05/298 Dany 3 Dany's Birthday (14) – other side of Dothraki sea
25/05/298 Arya 1 Crooked stiches
26/05/298 Cat 2 Decision to go South, Jon to NW

June
09/06/298 Dany 4 Vyserys mounted again – arrives in Vaes Dothrak
09/06/298 Bran 2 Things I do for love
14/06/298 Tyrion 1 Slaps Joffrey, wolves howling
22/06/298 Jon 2 Ned leaving WinterFell, « should have been you »
30/06/298 Cat 3 Assassin to kill Bran

July
02/07/298 Ned 2 News of Dany's wedding, Barrowlands
04/07/298 Cat 3 Cat leaving Winterfell
10/07/298 Tyrion 2 camp, not yet at the wall
21/07/298 Benjen leaving
23/07/298 Sam is 15 and kicked out of Horn Hill

August
15/08/298 Sansa 1 Ruby ford, Nymeria attacks Joff
19/08/298 Ned 3 Darry – Lady killed
24/08/298 Jon's birthday
28/08/298 Cat 4 Arrives in KL

September
02/09/298 Ned 4 Arrives in KL, talks to Cat
02/09/298 Bran 3 Waking up
07/09/298 Jon 3 News from Bran
08/09/298 Arya 2 Argument Sansa. « lone wolf dies, pack survives »
09/09/298 Tyrion 4 Jon practiced with his friend enough to see a difference
09/09/298 Bran's birthday (8)
11/09/298 First lesson with Syrio Forel
12/09/298 Cat leaves KL
14/09/298 Ned gets news of Bran
16/09/298 Bran 4 Tyrion arrives in Winterfell, Bran's birthday during last month
24/09/298 Ned 5 News from Bran already hired Syrio

October
10/10/298 Cat 5 Crossroad Inn, Tyrion captured
12/10/298 Tyrion 5 on the road
12/10/298 Ned 6 Every Inn full, Beric arrives, inquiring about Jon's death
15/10/298 Arya 3 Yoren gives Ned news of Cat arresting Tyrion. Arya overhears Varys & Illyrio talking about Dany's pregnancy
20/10/298 Cat 6 Reaches bloody gate
21/10/298 Cat in Eyrie
25/10/298 Sansa 2 Hand's tourney
26/10/298 Ned 7 Final joust
28/10/298 Ned 8 Quarrels with Robert, quit being hand
28/10/298 Ned 9 Jaime ambushes Ned
29/10/298 Robb prepares war after Cat's message

November
04/11/298 Ned 10 Slept 7 nights, Robert goes hunting
05/11/298 Ned 11 Sends the BwB against Gregor
05/11/298 Jon 4 Enter Sam
06/11/298 Sansa 3 Sansa learns she has to go away from KL
07/11/298 Tyrion 6 in jail, ask for trial
08/11/298 Cat 7 Tyrion's trial – Bronn wins. Tywin amassing troops
09/11/298 Melisandre in Dragonstone
09/11/298 Tyrion 7 At the bloody gate
10/11/298 Dany 5 Dosh Khaleen prophecy – Vyserys dies
10/11/298 Bran 5 Osha, dancer
12/11/298 Ned 12 Ned warns Cersei
15/11/298 Ned 13 Robert dies
16/11/298 Arya 4 Escapes
16/11/298 Ned 14 Sansa runs to Cersei, Ned betrayed
18/11/298 Sansa 4 Talks to Cersei, writes letter
20/11/298 Battle of the red fork (beric killed)
28/11/298 Jon 5 night watch vows
29/11/298 Jon 6 Sam made brother, ghost finds hand
30/11/298 Sansa's letter arrives
30/11/298 Jon 7 News of Ned, Undead attack

December
01/12/298 Bran 6 Robb leaves Winterfell
05/12/298 Battle of the Golden Tooth
15/12/298 Sansa turns 12
15/12/298 First Battle of Riverrun. Edmure loses
16/12/298 Dany 6 Poisoning attempt, caravan arrived not long ago
17/12/298 Cat 8 arrives at moat caillin
18/12/298 Khalasar leaves Vaes Dothrak
18/12/298 Sansa 5 pleads for Ned's life
21/12/298 Ned 15 Varys coaxing him to admit treason
23/12/298 Arya 5 Ned Beheaded
24/12/298 Tyrion 8 Reaches crossroad Inn with clans – Masha Heddle dead
25/12/298 Cat 9 At the twins
25/12/298 Renly crowned king
31/12/298 Dany 7 Lhazareen – lamb city. Takes MMD as slave

Year 299
January
01/01/299 Jon 8 Given Longclaw, Robb is marching
01/01/299 Cat 10 Whispering wood
02/01/299 Bran 7 News of Ned's death
02/01/299 Second Battle of Riverrun. Robb wins
03/01/299 Cat 11 enters Riverrun – King in the North
03/01/299 Tyrion 9 Battle of the green Fork – Roose bloodied
06/01/299 Jon 9 Jon tries to escape
08/01/299 Tyrion 10 Hears news of WW and RR. Tyrion sent to court
08/01/299 Gregor, Vargo & amory unleashed
09/01/299 Dany 8 Rhaego dies, Drogo dies
11/01/299 Sansa 6 Joff showing her Ned's head
19/01/299 Dany 9 Khalasar gone
20/01/299 Dany 10 Dragons, comet
22/01/299 COK Arya 1 Leaves KL, almost kills Hot Pie
27/01/299 COK Dany 1 Goes east

February
01/02/299 COK Bran 1 wolves howling. Comet, Freys. – can happen anytime
01/02/299 COK Arya 2 Gold cloaks catch up – inn with ivy
05/02/299 Prologue Cressen dies
10/02/299 COK Sansa 1 Tywin Harrendal. Tyrion arrives in KL. Joff nameday (13)
10/02/299 COK Tyrion 1 Tyrion becomes hand
21/02/299 COK Arya 3 Left Kingsroad, toward god's eye, past briarwhite
24/02/299 COK Tyrion 2 sends Slynt to the Wall
26/02/299 COK Davos 1 lightbringer – sending ravens with tract
28/02/299 COK Arya 4 Reaches south of god's eye. Amory Lorch. Yoren dies

March
04/03/299 COK Tyrion 3 Stannis pamphlet arrives in KL
05/03/299 COK Sansa 2 Meets Dontos in Godswood – riot cause of tyrek's wedding
12/03/299 COK Arya 5 Captured west of God's eye
17/03/299 COK Bran 2 Vassals talking – Cerwyn arrives with news of Stannis' Letter
18/03/299 Dany reaches Vaes Tolorro
20/03/299 COK Bran 3 Harvest feast – The Reeds arrive
25/03/299 COK Theon 1 Arrives at Pyke

April
01/04/299 Arya turns 10
03/04/299 COK Arya 6 arrives Harrendal. After 8 days in hut + march
11/04/299 COK Theon 2 Meet Asha. Depart for war in 14 days.

May
17/05/299 Quaithe & co arrive at Vaes Tolorro from Qarth
25/05/299 COK Jon 1 One day before ranging. Comet visible by day
25/05/299 Dany turns 15
25/05/299 COK Cat 1 Comet visible by day – Cleos Frey sent

June
02/06/299 News of Roose occupying Ruby ford for Arya
16/06/299 COK Arya 7 Chiswyck dies.
24/06/299 COK Tyrion 4 Send offer to Doran. Allister Thorne
25/06/299 COK Tyrion 5 Cleos Frey arrives – prepares wildfyre
26/06/299 COK Jon 2 Ranging, reach whitetree (4th village)
26/06/299 COK Dany 2 Arrives in Qarth. Dany is 15. News of Robert's death

July
10/07/299 COK Theon 3 raiding near thorren's square.
14/07/299 COK Tyrion 6 Cleos Frey leaving. Answer from Doran. Allister Thorne gets an audience
15/07/299 COK Tyrion 7 Cersei still indisposed
24/07/299 COK Jon 3 Craster's – 7 villages crossed

August
04/08/299 COK Cat 2 Arrives at Bitterbridge – News of Stannis besieging Storm's End
05/08/299 COK Dany 3 Meets pureborns. Meets fire mage. Got gifts
08/08/299 COK Dany 4 Undyings
10/08/299 COK Dany 5 Kicked out of Qarth – meet Barristan
13/08/299 COK Jon 4 Fist of the first Men. Finds horn
24/08/299 Jon turns 16
28/08/299 COK Cat 3 Renly's Peach
29/08/299 COK Cat 4 Renly dies. Fleeing with Brienne to RR
29/08/299 Battle of Oxcross
29/08/299 ASOS Dany 1 Becalmed on ships 6 days

September
04/09/299 COK Sansa 4 News of oxcross (happened 6 days before)
05/09/299 COK Tyrion 8 News of Renly's death. After Sansa 4
06/09/299 COK Arya 8 Tywin marching (to RR) news of oxcross. Weese dead
07/09/299 ASOS Dany 2 Reaches Astapor
09/09/299 ASOS Dany 3 gets Unsullied
09/09/299 Bran turns 9
11/09/299 COK Bran 4 News of Ramsay raping Lady Hornwood. Rodrick leaving. Bran 9.
14/09/299 COK Davos 2 Ultimatum rejected by Cortney Penrose
19/09/299 COK Tyrion 9 Myrcella sent to Dorne. Penrose still holding. LF amply time to reach bitterbridge
21/09/299 COK Tyrion 10 News of Penrose death
23/09/299 COK Jon 5 Qhorin arrives late. Jon joins him when he leaves
24/09/299 COK Bran 5 News of oxcross. Rodrick comes back with Ramsay
28/09/299 ASOS Dany 4 Yunkai yields

October
01/10/299 COK Bran 6 Theon taking Winterfell
06/10/299 COK Tyrion 11 Shae with Lollys. Old letter from Doran warning of Storm's end's fall
08/10/299 COK Cat 5 arrives from Storm's end
08/10/299 COK Theon 4 Bran & Rickon escape
10/10/299 ASOS Dany 5 Meereen 173 miles posts with children
11/10/299 COK Sansa 5 Kingswood on fire. Stannis Van below. Sansa's first period
14/10/299 Battle of the Red fork (Tywin repelled)
16/10/299 Robb 16 – should be before Jon?
19/10/299 COK Theon 5 Asha comes and goes. Dream Robb entering hall of the dead
19/10/299 COK Tyrion 12 News of Bran's death. No word from BitterBridge
19/10/299 COK Cat 6 receives news of the Battle of the Red fork
20/10/299 Robb takes Crag. Sleeps with Jeyne.
21/10/299 COK Theon 6 Theon falls. Winterfell burned. Rodrick dies
21/10/299 COK Sansa 6 Stannis' sails. Battle of the blackwater
21/10/299 COK Davos 3 Battle of the Blackwater
21/10/299 COK Tyrion 13 Battle of the Blackwater
21/10/299 COK Sansa 7 Battle of the Blackwater
21/10/299 COK Tyrion 14 Battle of the Blackwater
22/10/299 COK Sansa 8 Battle of the Blackwater – end – dawn
22/10/299 COK Arya 9 Weasel soup. Roose met mummers; Arya is 10
22/10/299 COK Bran 7 WF burned down. « I'm not dead either »
23/10/299 COK Sansa 9 Tywin made hand. Marg arrives in 30 days – LF gave dontos the hairnet, dontos gives it to Sansa
23/10/299 ASOS Dany 6 In meereen. Corpse in Plaza ripe. Took in less than a day
25/10/299 COK Cat 7 News of Bran's death. Free Jaime
25/10/299 COK Jon 6 meet Ygritte
26/10/299 ASOS Jaime 1 escapes RR
27/10/299 ASOS Cat 1 Judged, news of Robb taking the Crag
27/10/299 COK Arya 10 News of WF discussed. News of Robb's marriage arrives
27/10/299 COK Jon 7 Milkwater. Contact Bran in the crypts
28/10/299 ASOS Arya 1 escaping Harrendal.

November
01/11/299 ASOS Davos 1 Starving on a rock
01/11/299 ASOS Jaime 2 Arrives inn of the kneeling man, leaves boat
02/11/299 ASOS Bran 1 moving north – separated from Shaggy « many hunts »
03/11/299 ASOS Davos 2 arrives on Dragonstone
04/11/299 ASOS Cat 2 Robb returns
06/11/299 ASOS Arya 2 arrives dead village, meets anguy
06/11/299 ASOS Cat 3 Tyon & Willem Lannister murdered
06/11/299 COK Jon 8 Kills Qhorin
09/11/299 COK Tyrion 5 Dreaming, healing
09/11/299 ASOS Arya 3 Travels with BwB, 3 days
10/11/299 ASOS Davos 3 in cell, fever, Alester Florent sent in, talks to Mel
11/11/299 ASOS Davos 4 Stannis throws leeches in fire
12/11/299 ASOS Prologue Chett. Others attack. Sam releases ravens. Wildlings 40 miles away
13/11/299 ASOS Tyrion 1 Awakening from fever
14/11/299 ASOS Tyrion 2 Tyrion trying to get up to speed
15/11/299 ASOS Jon 1 Arrives wildling camp on Milkwater
16/11/299 ASOS Jaime 3 Captured by bloody mummers. Cleos dead, Jaime loses hand
19/11/299 ASOS Arya 4 Lychester->village->high heart->acorn hall
20/11/299 ASOS Sam 1 not slept since the fist. Killing Other
22/11/299 ASOS Sansa1 Margaery in KL
24/11/299 ASOS Jon 2 Counting giants, arrives on the fist
25/11/299 ASOS Sansa 2 Dead cleared. Meet QoT. Measures taken for gown
26/11/299 ASOS Tyrion 3 Small council. News Tarly vs glover. Balon offering alliance
27/11/299 ASOS Bran 2 twisted mountain valleys
30/11/299 ASOS Sansa 3 Gets new gown, marries Tyrion. 13 when moon turns

December
02/12/299 ASOS Arya 6 Hound's trial: hollow hill. Same day Arya 5: hound still drunk
02/12/299 ASOS Arya 5 Stoney sept, the Peach. Sandor capture
03/12/299 ASOS Sam 2 At crasters
04/12/299 Balon GreyJoy dead – confirmation by ghost
04/12/299 ASOS Arya 7 Attack on bloody mummers. Otw to RR
05/12/299 ASOS Cat 4 Hoster dead.
05/12/299 AFFC Aeron 1 (The prophet) News of Balon's death on great Wyk
06/12/299 ASOS Jaime 5 Harrendal bathhouse. Dine with Roose this very day
06/12/299 ASOS Arya 8 High Heart + 1: caught by Sandor
06/12/299 ASOS Jaime 4 Reaches Harrendal
08/12/299 ASOS Jaime 6 leaves Harrendal, comes back gets Brienne
08/12/299 ASOS Jon 3 bottom of wall.
09/12/299 ASOS Jon 4 scaling the wall
12/12/299 ASOS Sam 3 Fleeing Crasters, meet CH
12/12/299 ASOS Arya 9 Crosses Trident at Harroway.
13/12/299 ASOS Tyrion 4 LF sailed north 14 days before. Bird from bowen marsh: mormont under attack at fist
15/12/299 Sansa 13
18/12/299 ASOS Tyrion 5 Meets Oberyn
21/12/299 ASOS Cat 5 Marching to the twins
22/12/299 AFFC prologue Pate dead. News of Dany everywhere
23/12/299 ASOS Cat 6 Green Fork, arrives twins
23/12/299 ASOS Arya 10 Arrives at the twins
23/12/299 ASOS Cat 7 Red Wedding
23/12/299 ASOS Arya 11 Red Wedding
23/12/299 AFFC Asha 1 (Kraken's daughter) Preparation for Queensmoot. Meets Rodrick "the reader" Harlaw
26/12/299 Nymeria fishing out Cat from river
27/12/299 AFFC Victarion 1 (The Iron Captain) Preparation for Kingsmoot
28/12/299 ASOS Tyrion 6 News of Red Wedding
28/12/299 AFFC Aeron 2 (the Drowned Man) Kingsmoot. Euron King.
29/12/299 ASOS Jon 5 Queenscrown, escapes
29/12/299 ASOS Bran 3 Queenscrown. Synchro with Jon

January
01/01/300 ASOS Tyrion 7 Morning of Purple Wedding
01/01/300 ASOS Sansa 4 Purple Wedding. Joff hacks a book
01/01/300 ASOS Tyrion 8 Purple Wedding. Joffrey dies
01/01/300 ASOS Sansa 5 Escapes KL
03/01/300 ASOS Jaime 7 Arrives KL
06/01/300 ASOS Bran 4 Nightfort, had dream about RW nights before
07/01/300 ASOS Jaime 8 At Tyrion's trial, reads white book
08/01/300 ASOS Davos 5 Saan news of KL -> red wedding
09/01/300 ASOS Tyrion 9 Oberyn proposes Tyrion to be his champion
10/01/300 ASOS Davos 6 Edric escapes. News of Purple Wedding
11/01/300 ASOS Jon 6 Leg stiff. Buckwell came back from Crasters 14 days ago
11/01/300 ASOS Tyrion 10 Shae at trial, day after, Duel Oberyn
12/01/300 ASOS Jaime 9 Sends Brienne find Sansa
12/01/300 ASOS Tyrion 11 Escapes, kills Tywin
13/01/300 AFFC Cersei 1 Night of Tywin's death
13/01/300 AFFC Cersei 2 Tywin's funerals
13/01/300 AFFC Jaime 1 Tywin's funerals
15/01/300 ASOS Epilogue Merret is Hanged. Interrogated about Arya
21/01/300 AFFC the Captain of the guards News of Oberyn death in sunspear
21/01/300 ASOS Jon 7 Mole town burning. Aemon sent ravens
22/01/300 ASOS Arya 12 stays and leaves in village mountain of the moon
24/01/300 AFFC Brienne 1 Rosby, then two days to old stone bridge

February
05/02/300 AFFC Brienne 2 Duskendale. Pod joins.
06/02/300 AFFC Soiled Knight 14 days ago, merchant for KL killed (because of Oberyn's death)
07/02/300 AFFC Arianne 1 (Queenmaker) I am of the night. Myrcella wounded.
09/02/300 Sandor lays dying alone
09/02/300 ASOS Sansa 6 KL->finger, leaving for Eyrie
13/02/300 ASOS Jon 8 Mance attacks
16/02/300 ASOS Arya 13 Crossroad Inn. Tickler. Leaving Hound. Riding to Saltpans. Getting aboard Titan's daughter
22/02/300 Rape of saltpans
23/02/300 ASOS Jon 9 still in battle. Mini 4 days
23/02/300 AFFC Brienne 3 Maidenpool, meet Dick Crabb, News Lysa dead, news hound raping & pillaging
25/02/300 AFFC Cersei 3 Tommen's wedding. Burning the tower of the hand
27/02/300 ASOS Jon 10 in jail four days. Stannis arrives
27/02/300 AFFC Jaime 2 Kevan, Olenna and Mace gone.
29/02/300 Stannis arrive at the Wall

March
08/03/300 AFFC Cersei 4 Storm's End besieged
09/03/300 AFFC Arya 1 Reaches Braavos
13/03/300 AFFC Brienne 4 Cracklaw Point. I'm too droll to die.
15/03/300 AFFC Cersei 5 Hear about Doran punishing Arianne's accomplices. Sends man kill Bronn.
21/03/300 AFFC Arianne 2 (Princess in the tower) Fire and Blood
23/03/300 ASOS Sam 4 Arrives Wall. 10 days of voting for LC
23/03/300 ASOS Jon 11 training, proposition by Stannis
24/03/300 ASOS Sam 5 election LC
24/03/300 ASOS Jon 12 elected LC
28/03/300 AFFC Cersei 6 Accepts rearming of the Faith.
30/03/300 ASOS Sansa 7 Only cat
31/03/300 AFFC Victarion 2 (the Reaver) Attack of the shield islands

April
01/04/300 Arya turns 11
01/04/300 AFFC Jaime 3 Arrives in Harrenhal. Brienne, if it please smy lord. Brienne the beauty
03/04/300 AFFC Cersei 7 News of the Shield Islands. Loras sent to take Dragonstone.
04/04/300 AFFC Brienne 5 Leaving Maidenpool. "And the man breaks"
05/04/300 AFFC Sansa 1 Nestor Royce visits the Eyrie
07/04/300 AFFC Jaime 4 Arrives in Darry. News of Faith militant. Lancel leaves next day.
08/04/300 AFFC Brienne 6 Arrives in Saltpans, then to quiet Isle.
08/04/300 AFFC Sam 1 Sent away from Castle Black with Aemon
08/04/300 AFFC Arya becomes Novice
11/04/300 AFFC Brienne 7 Crossroads Inn, kills Rorge.
15/04/300 AFFC Jaime 5 Arrives near Riverrun.
15/04/300 AFFC Jaime 6 "with a trebuchet"
16/04/300 AFFC Sam 2 Leaves Eastwatch
17/04/300 AFFC Brienne 8 Trial. Cat has Ryman's crown. "screamed a word"
17/04/300 AFFC Sansa 2 (Alayne 1) Lynn Corbray is a man of simple tastes
19/04/300 AFFC Cersei 8 News of Dragonstone's fall, Lancel is in KL.
23/04/300 AFFC Cersei 9 Rosby dead. Sends Osney to "confess"
25/04/300 AFFC Cersei 10 Thrown in jail, sends letter to Jaime
27/04/300 AFFC Sansa 3 (Alayne 2) Leaving the Eyrie
28/04/300 AFFC Jaime 7 Letter from Cersei. "put this in the fire"

May
08/05/300 AFFC Arya 2 Arya hides Needle, becomes Cat. "Valar Morghulis, Valar Morghulis"
19/05/300 AFFC Sam arrives in Braavos

June
28/06/300 AFFC Sam 3 Arya meets Sam, Sam meets xhondo.
30/06/300 AFFC Sam leaves on Cinnamon Wind (first stop Pentos)

August
24/08/300 AFFC Sam 4 Aemon dies. "fat pink mast"

September
23/09/300 AFFC Sam 5 Sam arrives in Oldtown


Year 301
March
04/03/301 AFFC Arya kills Dareon, becomes blind

Edited by Errant Bard, 08 March 2009 - 02:51 PM.


#2 Werthead

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 06:23 PM

Impressive work. The timeline broadly agrees with my own rough timeline I threw together pre-AFFC, although I didn't go anywhere near into this level of detail. I am relieved to see you concur that the bulk of AFFC takes place over 5 or so months. I was seriously bemused by people saying it was closer to 1 year if not more as I didn't get that from the text, but I did pick up on the extremely slow passage of Sam. If Sam had travelled non-stop from Eastwatch to Oldtown it's possible the journey would have been more plausible, but throw in the lengthy stop in Braavos and it becomes impossible.

If you want a challenge, try to sort out the Malazan timeline. On second thoughts, don't. It's not worth the price of your sanity ;)

#3 SFDanny

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 09:33 PM

Great work, EB. Can I give few corrections I can see on first read? Arya is born early in the year, not in November as you list. She certainly turns 11 in year 300 because we know she is 10 at Harrenhal in year 299, and she is still 10 when she boards the Titan's Daughter in year 300. However because she is already 9 at the welcoming feast (or at least during Robert's visit and before Bran's fall) we know her name day has already taken place in year 298. This puts her name day before Myrcella's, Bran's, Robb's, Jon's, Margaery's, and Sansa's. While it can't be pinned down if her name day takes place before or after Rickon's, Joffrey's, Tommen's, or Daenerys' it is clear she has a early year name day.

Also, you have Jon's name day taking place before Bran's and therefore Robb's. I have Bran's taking place before Robb's because of he is 9 well before the fall of Winterfell and his and Rickon's supposed deaths - the news of which reaches Riverrun only a few days after Robb turns 16. Jon obviously has his name day celebrated after Robb's because Catelyn thinks Jon was conceived after Ned leaves her pregnant and goes off to war in the south.

edit: also the first time we read of the comet is in Bran's last chapter in A Game of Thrones on page 610 in the US hardback, not in Daenerys' chapter where she burns Khal Drogo and MMD. That is not to say it is earlier, but it is not first mentioned for Bran's timeline in ACoK.

Anyway, that's my first read of it. Wonderful work, if I see anything else I'll post it later. Perhaps I should post a thread on the work I've done on name days? Anyone interested?

OK, I went ahead and posted a new thread on character ages. Hope someone else finds it interesting.

Edited by SFDanny, 01 October 2008 - 11:52 PM.


#4 Errant Bard

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 01:17 AM

Thanks for the kind words.

SFDanny, You are right for the comet. Good thing I put the two chapters in the same month. :)

I know about Jon having his birthday before RObb, but to synch everything with bird travel times, comet appearing, and Tyrion coming and going, it had to happen like that, but I will try to see if there isn't a way to move that again.

About Bran, I believe my estimations are right, since there isn't much space for error with both his birthdays firmly delimited. Robb cannot be wrong either, since he turns 16 when he takes the crag.

Right again about Arya, oh dear, that means she actually thinks of putting down Ned Dayne by saying she killed a man when she was younger than she really was. That would make her birthday happen in march/april/may but no earlier (since she isn't 11 yet when boarding the Titan's Daughter) and no later (since the welcoming feast in winterfell is late in may.

I say she was born start of april 289, or even late in march (let's take into consideration that Ned was warring against Balon Greyjoy nine years before the winterfell welcoming feast, so Arya had to be conceived before he left). That would make her 12 or near when she becomes blind in Braavos.

Edited by Errant Bard, 02 October 2008 - 01:35 AM.


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Posted 02 October 2008 - 12:52 PM

Amazing! One thing I'm skeptical of is Ned leaving Winterfell as late as June 22. Robert had earlier complained about "summer snows" but he must mean the multi-year summers ('capital S Summer) at this point, since it wouldn't have snowed in several years south of the Neck. I can see the North having essentially normal seasons equivalent to northern Europe during 'Summer', with snows from maybe November to April or something, much longer all the way up at the Wall (and snow all year round during 'Winter' years).

But there was snow melting in Jon's hair the day the two parties left Winterfell, June 22 seems awfully late for that in a Summer year. On the same note, I would have thought the snows in the Eyrie and Riverrun toward the end of aFfC would have indicated that they were into the waning months of 300, but you've probably got a more solid basis for those dates than mere weather, so maybe the onset of Winter is happening much faster than my first guess.

#6 Errant Bard

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 02:10 PM

Yes, it's all synched to Joffrey's wedding, which happens the first day of year 300, so I cannot shift the timeline by 6 months or so.

I just pretend that the seasons in Westeros are not the same as in reality. Even the month names are for easy understanding, after all. Maybe summer happens between november and may, and they don't have normal months but a lunar calendar following a strict 30 days decoupage. There are some other inconsistencies, but I can live with them :)

Anyway, we can wave that away with the irregular seasons of Westeros. Summer snows apparently happen anytime they feel like around Winterfell, and the month doesn't matter as much as the big seasons you're in.

#7 the silent speaker

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:01 PM

You appear to have Robb in October and Jon in August. Would they have been close enough as infants for their relative ages to be confuseable if they were two months apart? (This is connected to the who's older debate but I thought it was enough of a standalone to be worth pointing out.)

#8 Errant Bard

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:00 AM

Yes, it's an inconsistency, I know, but I have a hard time doing differently, look in the "character ages" thread in this same subforum for my explanations, and some arguments against and for. I chalk this up to an error from GRRM, giving us Jon's real birth date, or something like that. Robb should indeed have his birthday before Jon's.

However, they would have been close enough in age for their difference to not be noticeable, especially since they were not together since birth but had at least some months to grow apart.

#9 Septic Septon

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 12:36 PM

Maybe Jon could have been premature by a few weeks - which would go explain a traumatic carriage by Lyanna and would make his "biological" age lower than Robb's.

Completely wild speculation of course.

#10 Errant Bard

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:13 PM

The problem here isn't biological age, as this can vary as much as we want, more or less, Robert's rebellion or Dany chapters not being that well delimited in time, but official age and here Jon ought to be thought to be younger than Robb, and what he thinks his birthday to occur after Robb's. Not the case in my timeline, but as I said I'm not exluding a mistake from me or from GRRM, I'm just stumped, as it were.

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:20 PM

The aFfC prologue seems terribly late compared to Tywin's death. Armen the Acolyte thinks Varys is still part of the government, and his suspicious disappearance should have traveled hand in hand with Tywin's death. Would it really take more than four months...1-12 to 5-23.. for that news to reach Oldtown? I think something needs to be adjusted there.

#12 Errant Bard

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:38 AM

Yes, it's true, I'll look into it.

It was put at this date as there are rumors of Dany in Meereen floating around, and Dany conquered the city a mere 140 days before or so, I estimated that rumors had to travel and spread, and the meereen/Oldtown trip takes roughly two months in my estimate.

Of course, on a re-re-read, it appears that not only Armen speaks about Varys, but Pate thinks about how Tywin will smash Stannis and mount his head on spikes, and does not even mention Ironborn raiders, which, considering Sam's last chapter, he should.

I guess I would have to put it somewhere around the end of January 300 and consider that those sailor's tales about "Dragons in Meereen" mean my Dany timeline ought to be compressed and lose at least two months.

#13 schpat

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:08 AM

Great work, I have no idea how much effort was actually involved in this. I once started making a list of all dreams and profecies and got really bored and stopped.

That's why I hate to have to bring up an error I spotted

19/09/299 COK Tyrion 9 Myrcella sent to Dorne. Penrose still holding. LF amply time to reach bitterbridge

27/02/300 AFFC Jaime 2 Kevan, Olenna and Mace gone.


In COK Tyrion 9 Lolys is raped by the mob

In AFFC Jaime 2 Lolys gives birth

Therefore they should be nine months apart. Only five and a bit in your timeline.

Sorry

#14 Errant Bard

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 10:36 AM

schpat: I know, but Jaime 2 has to come shortly after Cersei 3 ( two days max) which itself should be right after Tywins funerals, which are just after Tyrion's escape which itsellf is extremely close to the Red Wedding. I don't think I can put 4 months more anywhere

#15 Kevin_Lannister

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:08 PM

Dont finger me for being stupid or anything because I missed this and I may have missed it even in this thread because I didnt read all the replys, but how do you know that she went blind so long after all the other events. Is there something in that chapter that clued you in that it had to take place the following year. I have never reread Feast, but on my first read I got the impression Daeron was killed shortly after Samwell left him.

#16 Errant Bard

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:47 AM

We talk about it in the AFFC Re-Read project - Arya thread, but to sum it up, Arya's life in Braavos follows the cycle of the moon, which is roughly 30 days long. She brings back 3 new things to to kind old man with each new moon, and we have a list of what she brought back. There is also some interpretation based on what she learned and who she knows, on when she meets Sam, and on FM rituals (for example, the estimation that it took her near 2 months to throw her things out and be sent in the world)

#17 Kevin_Lannister

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:57 PM

Good point EB and very nice timeline then. The only things wrong you either fixed or theres too much speculation for it to be wrong or right, so your pretty spot on, which I would never be able to do.

#18 SFDanny

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 04:20 PM

EB, I know you don't need anymore headaches over this stuff, but I'm doing a reread of AGoT and I noticed this marker mentioned in Jon's chapter (7 I think) that deals with the turning of the Year to 299.

The Old men called this weather spirit summer, and said it meant the season was giving up its ghosts at last. After this the cold would come, they warned, and a long summer always meant a long winter. This summer had lasted ten years. Jon had been a babe in arms when it began. (AGoT 467)

bold emphasis added

Combined this with this earlier quote by Lord Mormont in a conversation with Tyrion in which he says the following:

This summer has lasted nine years, Tyrion, and a tenth will soon be upon us. Think on that. (AGoT 175)


and what we have is the year turning from 298 to 299 between the two, with it occurring much closer to the Jon's chapter. I note that you have this chapter taking place on November 30, 298, so I thought I'd point it out. Hope this is helpful.

#19 Errant Bard

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 01:55 AM

Ha, yes, but surely summers and winters do not begin or end with the new year. Equinox, on Earth, is in September :P

#20 SFDanny

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:41 AM

Ha, yes, but surely summers and winters do not begin or end with the new year. Equinox, on Earth, is in September :P


Right, but in Martin's world the seasons don't seem to be tied to any specific dates in a given year - hence we have a summer that last 10 years, 2 turns, and 16 days instead of three months each year. Instead of being tied to a date in which the Sun's apparent path is at a specific point in the sky relative to the celestial equator, the seasons of Martin's world look to be tied to dominant weather patterns that function for years on end in changing cycles. I would think Westeros must have a yearly vernal equinox, or winter solstice, for example, but it just doesn't mean the same thing relative to the turning of seasons as it does in our world.

However, what I was trying to get at in the quotes above is that both Mormont and Jon are looking at this from the perspective of the turning of the year, a term that seems to mean the same thing in Westeros as it does in the real world, instead of marking when the anniversary of the start of this long summer took place nine and ten years ago. If they were maesters like Cressen, we might interpret it that way, but Mormont and Jon are surely looking at this from the changing of the new year and marking it as another year of summer. At least, that is what looks like to me. Take it for what it's worth, but I'd say it's an indicator that the year has turned from 298 to 299 between the two chapters.