78 replies to this topic

[mor2]

so according to this what came first Gregor Clegane battle at the Ruby Ford  or  Gregor Clegane retake of Harrenhal?

[voodooqueen126]

Also, what are Petyr Baelish's movements? He is away from Kings Landing from A Storm of Swords chapter 19, we see Jeyne in chapter 44 of a Storm of Swords.
So I am curious as to how Jeyne was trained into becoming Arya Stark.

Edited by voodooqueen126, 22 December 2011 - 07:31 PM.

[SFDanny]

voodooqueen126, on 16 August 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Any hint as to when Tommen's birthday is?

Sorry, I missed this post and am so late in responding. Tommen was born in 291 and his name day falls in the early part of the year. For instance, we know his seventh name day falls after Joffrey's twelfth in 298 and takes place before the news of Jon Arryn's death and Robert's impending arrival in Winterfell reaches Ned and Catelyn as they discuss Tommen's age before Winterfell's heart tree. Tommen's name day therefore falls in the year before his sister's, before Bran's, before Robb's and before Jon's. We don't know if it falls before Arya's. Hope that helps.

[Dementia]

dragginstoned, on 23 August 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

I congradulate everyone here on the great work.  People worked really hard on all this its obvious.

However, why do we assume months are 30 days long and years have 12 months and 365 days?

Could it be that Westeros is on a 28 day month, with 13 months to a year and 364 days to a year assuming no leap days etc?  It seems like a more natural calander to follow for that type of society.

does this model change anything for people?

All the work you did was amazing.  But I agree with dragginstoned.  Also, I don't think your "beginning of the year" date is correct.  Most likely, the year would begin on the winter solstice *or* the date when Aegon landed.  I think it more likely that the year would begin when Aegon landed, rather than the solstice.  So whenever Aegon landed...that would be the first month.

It might not matter, since I don't think we know what season Aegon landed and your time line seems to rely on events in relation to each other.

So interesting that Martin doesn't really make any reference to months or how many days are in a week.  Because he doesn't, I would go with the default roughly 29/30 days in a month, 7 days in a week.  Just a random guess, I would think the Westerosi calendar would be more like the Hebrew calendar than the Gregorian.  From wikipedia: "Similarly, in the Hebrew calendar (a lunisolar calendar), a 13th lunar month is added seven times every 19 years to the twelve lunar months in its common years to keep its calendar year from drifting through the seasons too rapidly."

[Errant Bard]

It's a convention so the timeline is more readable. Besides, we know the months follow the moon, and from affc we know the moon cycle is 30 days. Add to that that GRRM was actually asked and said the year was the same as our, so, whatever.

I don't really care, but I was not about to invent a new calendar with fancy cycles and names for no reason. The events are timed against one another anyway, and all synced on what we know to be the first day of year 300.

[Jonas Schreiber]

I have points about two of the discrepancies listed on the first page:

In AGOT, Tyrion comes back from the wall way too fast, and Catelyn moves up from KL way too slow, yet it is necessary for them to meet in in the crossroad inn
I also think Catelyn was moving around way too quick in AGoT. Of course she took a ship down there, but on the way back, there is no explanation. Since that was what I took to be the speed of travel in Westeros, for a long time subsequently I thought people were just moving way too slow, and it threw off my expactations.

Sam, due to the speed of ships, should arrive in Oldtown very late in year 300, yet by then, the captain of the huntress tells him that Cersei is still in command and the Redwyne fleet is still bogged down somewhere. I guess it could fit if Cersei were to somehow become free and reassign the fleet elsewhere, but it's a bit far fetched.
This could be due to the captain just not having the most up to date information, which I am sure you considered, so why is that not possible?

[Errant Bard]

Jonas Schreiber, on 13 January 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

This could be due to the captain just not having the most up to date information, which I am sure you considered, so why is that not possible?

Because The Huntress is an Oldtown ship, mostly.

[Jonas Schreiber]

28/10/298 Ned 9 Jaime ambushes Ned
29/10/298 Robb prepares war after Cat's message
How do you know it's the very next day. Seems like it'd take a raven more than a day to travel like 75% of Westeros.

[Errant Bard]

Jonas Schreiber, on 13 January 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

28/10/298 Ned 9 Jaime ambushes Ned
29/10/298 Robb prepares war after Cat's message
How do you know it's the very next day. Seems like it'd take a raven more than a day to travel like 75% of Westeros.

Because the two events are unrelated. Cat is sending a message from the Eyrie before Ned is attacked.

[voodooqueen126]

Hi using Errant Bards timeline and http://asoiaf.wester...-affc-and-adwd/
I have started this. I am now certain that the first Davos chapter occurs after Lysa Tully's death (Lord Borrell mentions that Lysa was murdered by her singer) and possibly after the first Sansa chapter of AFFC (since that's when Lord Royce learnt that Lysa had been murdered by her singer).
The single Jaime chapter of ADWD had to have occured half a year after the Red Wedding.
It can't take all that long for Jaime to get from Riverrun (his final AFFC chapter) to Raventree hall.
Also in AFFC chapter 18: Cersei 4. Mentions the  Lord’s Declarant of the Vale, so this chapter must occur after Sansa' first chapter in AFFC (05/04/300). Or as late as Sansa's 2nd chapter in AFFC. 17/04/300 AFFC.  Also mentions that  Ramsay Bolton not yet at Moat Cailin, so it occurs before the 2nd Reek chapter of ADWD). Cersei hears about Davos being captured by Wyman Manderly. So we must conclude that Davos chapter 3 in ADWD happens before Cersei's 4th chapter in AFFC/AFFC chapter 18... and definitly after Sansa's first chapter of AFFC.

  
A Dance with Dragons
Possible date (using Errant Bard’s timeline)
AFFC 02: The Prophet
05/12/299
ADWD 01: Prologue
Occurs after Stannis victory and arrival at wall. Mother mole travels east
AFFC 01: Prologue
22/12/299

AFFC 12: The Kraken's Daughter
23/12/299
ADWD 03: Daenerys 1

AFFC 19: The Iron Captain Has left Moat Cailin
27/12/299


AFFC 20: The Drowned Man
Ralf Kenning supports Victarion so Ironborn aren’t starving yet
28/12/299
ADWD 04: Jon 1
Between 24/03/300 ASOS Jon 12 elected LC- 08/04/300 in which Sam is sent away with Gilly
AFFC 04: Cersei 1
13/01/300

AFFC 08: Cersei 2

13/01/300

AFFC 09: Jaime 1
13/01/300
ADWD 05: Bran 1
Sometime after:
29/12/299 ASOS Bran 3 Queenscrown. Synchro with Jon ASOS Jon 5.
AFFC 03: The Captain Of Guards

21/01/300

AFFC 05: Brienne 1
24/01/300
ADWD 13: Reek 1
Sometime after 28/12/299 as the Ironborn at Moat Cailin are starving.
AFFC 10: Brienne 2
05/02/300

AFFC 14: The Soiled Knight
06/02/300
ADWD 10: Davos 1
must occur after 30/03/300 (ASOS Sansa 7) as Lord Borrel mentions Lysa’s death and that she was murdered by singer so perhaps even after 05/04/300 AFFC  Sansa 1
AFFC 22: The Queenmaker

07/02/300

AFFC 15: Brienne 3
23/02/300
ADWD 16: Davos 2
Arrives at White Harbour
AFFC 13: Cersei 3
25/02/300
ADWD 20: Davos 3
Before 08/03/300 as Cersei finds out about his capture then.
AFFC 17: Jaime 2
27/02/300

  



The books converge when Cersei finds out Davos has been captured and Ramsay Bolton moves to capture Moat Cailin


The books converge when Cersei finds out Davos has been captured and Ramsay Bolton moves to capture Moat Cailin

A Feast for Crows
Timeline of AFFC according to Errant Bard
A Dance with Dragons
Possible date (using Errant Bard’s timeline)
AFFC 18: Cersei 4 (mentions Lord’s Declarant, so it must occur after  05/04/300 AFFC Sansa 1. Probably before 17/04/300 AFFC Sansa 2 (Alayne 1).  Ramsay Bolton not yet at Moat Cailin. Hears about Davos being captured
08/03/300
ADWD 02: Tyrion 1

AFFC 07: Arya 1
09/03/300
ADWD 21: Reek 2
A little while after 08/03/300 since Ramsay had not yet hit Moat Cailin in Cersei 4
AFFC 21: Brienne 4
13/03/300
ADWD 06: Tyrion 2

AFFC 25: Cersei 5 Cersei learns that Davos has been beheaded
15/03/300
ADWD 09: Tyrion 3

AFFC 41: The Princess In The Tower
21/03/300
ADWD 07: The Merchant's Man

AFFC 29: Cersei 6
28/03/300
ADWD 12: Daenerys 2

AFFC 30: The Reaver
31/03/300
ADWD 14: Bran 2

AFFC 28: Jaime 3. Wylis released when Jaime returned to Harrenhal
01/04/300
Wylis to be escorted by Red Ronnet Connington to Maidenpool
and then put on a boat to White Harbour.
AFFC 33: Cersei 7

ADWD 15: Tyrion 4

AFFC 26: Brienne 5
04/04/300

AFFC 11: Sansa 1 Royce learns that Lysa murdered by Singer
05/04/300
ADWD 17: Daenerys 3

AFFC 31: Jaime 4
07/04/300
ADWD 19: Tyrion 5

AFFC 32: Brienne 6
08/04/300





The books converge when Jon sends Sam away from Castle Black

A Feast for Crows

Timeline of AFFC according to Errant Bard

A Dance with Dragons
Possible date (using Errant Bard’s timeline)
AFFC 06: Samwell 1
08/04/300
ADWD 08: Jon 2
08/04/300
AFFC 38: Brienne 7
11/04/300
ADWD 11: Jon 3
Has heard  of Tywin’s death

ADWD 18: Jon 4
Treats with Stannis, Sends Stannis out to Deepwood Motte
AFFC 34: Jaime 5
15/04/300
ADWD 22: Jon 5
Recruits wildlings
AFFC 39: Jaime 6
15/04/300
ADWD 23: Tyrion 6

AFFC 16: Samwell 2
16/04/300
ADWD 24: Daenerys 4

AFFC 43: Brienne 8
17/04/300
ADWD 25: The Lost Lord
Occurs on the same day as Tyrion 6
AFFC 24: Alayne 1 Lords Declarant give . Petyr 1 year to fix Vale. Petyr mentions Cersei’s self-destructive behaviour
17/04/300
ADWD 26: The Windblown

AFFC 37: Cersei 8
19/04/300
ADWD 27: The Wayward Bride
Learns that Moat Cailin has fallen to Boltons. Stannis takes Deepwood Motte

ADWD 28: Tyrion 7

AFFC 40: Cersei 9
23/04/300
ADWD 29: Jon 6
Bulwer sent out, hears about ‘Arya”.
AFFC 44: Cersei 10
Cersei thrown in jail
25/04/300
ADWD 30: Davos 4
Theon known to be alive. Is Wylis still a hostage?
AFFC 42: Alayne 2. Petyr plans Sansa’s betrothal.
27/04/300
ADWD 31: Daenerys 5

AFFC 45: Jaime 7
Departs to end siege of Raventree Hall. Burns Cersei’s letter
28/04/300
ADWD 32: Melisandre
Jack Bulwer dead. Mance sent out to rescue Arya.

ADWD 33: Reek 3
Search for missing Freys, Wyman Manderly has left White Harbour
AFFC 23: Arya 2
08/05/300
ADWD 34: Tyrion 8

AFFC 27: Samwell 3
28/06/300
ADWD 35: Bran 3

AFFC 36: Samwell 4
24/08/300
ADWD 36: Jon 7
New recruits make vows
AFFC 46: Samwell 5
23/09/300
ADWD 37: Daenerys 6

AFFC 35: Cat Of The Canals

ADWD 38: The Prince of Winterfell
“Bael”arrives at Winterfell. Ramsay marries Jeyne/’Arya”


The books converge when ADWD chapters all begin continuing storylines which ended in AFFC

A Feast for Crows
A Dance with Dragons
Possible date
ADWD 39: The Watcher

ADWD 40: Jon 8
Sends Val out
ADWD 41: Tyrion 9

ADWD 42: The Turncloak

ADWD 43: The King's Prize
30 days since she left Deepwood Motte. Arrive at village
ADWD 44: Daenerys 7

ADWD 45: Jon 9
Selyse arrives at Castle Black. Tycho Nahaaris mentions Lannister failure to pay debts. Alys Karstark arrives, warns of Karstark uncle’s betrayal
ADWD 46: The Blind Girl

ADWD 47: A Ghost In Winterfell
Final scene within a day of chapter 52.
ADWD 48: Tyrion 10

ADWD 62: The Griffin Reborn

ADWD 49: Jaime
Roslin’s child not born. Learns that the siege of Raventree Hall has gone on for half a year. It must have begun by ASOS 72: Jaime 9 12/01/300. Since that’s when Lord Bracken was pardoned.
ADWD 50: Jon 10
Alys marries Sigorn. Tormund and Val return
ADWD 51: Daenerys 8

ADWD 52: Theon
Perhaps 3 days before chapter 63/last Asha chapter
ADWD 53: Daenerys 9

ADWD 54: Jon 11
Flints and Norrey’s arrive
ADWD 55: Cersei 1
Rumours of Jon Connington
ADWD 56: The Queensguard

ADWD 57: The Iron Suitor

ADWD 58: Tyrion 11

ADWD 59: Jon 12
Wildling hostages, Cotter Pyke stranded at Hardhome
ADWD 60: The Discarded Knight

ADWD 61: The Spurned Suitor

ADWD 63: The Sacrifice
Stranded for 19 days at village. Approximately 3 days since chapter 52
ADWD 64: Victarion

ADWD 65: The Ugly Little Girl

ADWD 66: Cersei 2

ADWD 67: Tyrion 12

ADWD 69: The Dragontamer

ADWD 68: The Kingbreaker

ADWD 70: Jon 13
Receives Pink letter
ADWD 71: The Queen's Hand

ADWD 72: Daenerys 10

ADWD 73: Epilogue




http://asoiaf.wester...-affc-and-adwd/

Edited by voodooqueen126, 05 March 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[Rapsie]

Hey I was just wondering about the Lollys query. The timeline is confusing as Lollys was raped when Myrcella went to Dorne (19th September) according to the timeline. So couldn't feasibley have had her baby before the middle of May the following year at the very earliest. In fact a nine month gestation would put the birth into the middle of June 300.

Doesn't that mean that Cersei being thrown in Jail etc, happens a lot later, like July or August? And all the subsequent events being later?

And then Jaime would have gone missing in July / August or so and the Epilogue is nearer the end to mid September? Which would fit with the Appendix which says Roslin "is great with child" which I took as just about to give birth.

Edited by Rapsie, 12 May 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[voodooqueen126]

I think Cersei being thrown in gaol must have happened a lot later...

[Rapsie]

She does joke with Jaime and Taena about Lollys' baby. So Jaime couldn't have even left to go to Harrenhal, Darry and  then Riverrun until the beginning of June.

[adreamer]

There are other inconsistencies as well - for example Lady Lisa's dead apeared on 30/03/300 according to the chart and Brienne hears about that on 23/02/300 -

[Ser Lepus]

You know, maybe GRRM created the weird seasons phenomenon so he wouldn't have to worry so much about the consistency of the pass of time, and here we are, dissecting his work and trying to make a timeline that makes sense...

[Hear Me Type!]

I love you EB... No homo guy love.

Edited by Hear Me Type!, 28 November 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[J. Stargaryen]

A fantastic OP!

[Lord Martin]

A question came up in another thread.

When was the sack of Winterfell by Ramsay relative to Battle of Blackwater?  This timeline has them happening on the same day.  The debate is essentially whether Roose Bolton knew the results of Blackwater in time to order Ramsay to sack Winterfell.  In ACOK, we get Sansa's account of the knightings after the battle, then Arya in Harrenhal w/ Roose speaking w/ Freys about Robb's marraige.  And then we get the Theon chapter re: the sack.  So I would think that was several days later.

Is there any reason the sack of Winterfell couldn't be a week after Blackwater?

[Errant Bard]

Not really, Martin is not good with synchronizing timelines, but in this case, after recalculating the stuff, the different events leading to the Blackwater and the burning of Winterfell, plus travel speed make it so the burning of Winterfell must happen before the Blackwater if he wants to be consistent... which he could not want that much.

The main thing is that Bran's group will not actually survive that long in the crypts, and considering he escaped at the very max on 21/09/299, it's already 16 days in there with just some hastily stolen food and water... I think it's already pushing credibility. Note Tyrion gets news of Bran's demise well before the Blackwater, and that birds/messengers don't actually teleport, so for Roose to have ordered the burning of Winterfell, he would have needed to respond right when he got the news, and even then when he got the news was barely enough for the bird to come back to the dreadfort, nevermind marshalling men and marshing them to Winterfell

I have this, the timing is especially tight at this point of time:

15/09/0299-21/09/0299 ACOK THEON 4 - Bran escapes - time enough for Stygg to reach deepwood motte - Bran and Rickon's death
16/09/0299-05/10/0299 ACOK JON 7 - talks to Bran - reaches milkwater
18/09/0299-01/10/0299 ACOK TYRION 12 - News of Bran's death
22/09/0299-25/09/0299 AGOT ---- ---- Robb is 16
23/09/0299-24/09/0299 ACOK CATELYN 6 . News Penrose dies. Robb marching toward Crag. Roose marching on Harrenhal
23/09/0299-15/10/0299 ACOK ARYA 9 - Weasel soup - day before Roose taking the castle 
26/09/0299-28/09/0299 AGOT ---- ---- Battle of the Red Fork.
28/09/0299-29/09/0299 ACOK CATELYN 6 B. News Red Fork
29/09/0299-10/10/0299 ACOK SANSA 5 - Sails on Blackwater - battle of Blackwater
29/09/0299-10/10/0299 ACOK DAVOS 3 - Battle of Blackwater
29/09/0299-10/10/0299 ACOK TYRION 13 - Battle of Blackwater
29/09/0299-10/10/0299 ACOK SANSA 6 - Battle of Blackwater
29/09/0299-10/10/0299 ACOK TYRION 14 - Battle of Blackwater
30/09/0299-11/10/0299 ACOK SANSA 8 - day after Blackwater - rumors Renly's ghost
01/10/0299-21/10/0299 ACOK SANSA 9 - Tywin savior of the city - wedding in 30 days - gets hairnet
02/10/0299-03/10/0299 ACOK THEON 5 - Asha passing by - deaths - dream of Robb dead
06/10/0299-05/11/0299 ACOK TYRION 15 - wakes up
06/10/0299-25/10/0299 ACOK JON 8 - Kills Qhorin
06/10/0299-25/10/0299 ASOS DAVOS 1 - On a rock at sea 
07/10/0299-08/10/0299 ACOK CATELYN 7 - News of Bran. News Robb taking the Crag. Edmure soon comes back. Freeing Jaime
07/10/0299-08/10/0299 ACOK THEON 6 - WF burned to the ground
07/10/0299-08/10/0299 ACOK BRAN 7 - I'm not dead either
07/10/0299-26/10/0299 ASOS SANSA 1 - Margaery in KL - wedding soon
08/10/0299-09/10/0299 ASOS JAIME 1 - going downriver 
08/10/0299-12/11/0299 ASOS DAVOS 2 - Arrives on Dragonstone 
10/10/0299-11/10/0299 ASOS CATELYN 1 - Edmure comes back - news of Robb taking a wound 
10/10/0299-11/10/0299 ASOS CATELYN 2 - Robb comes back, news of Rodrick, Freys leaving 
10/10/0299-20/11/0299 ASOS CATELYN 3 - Kastark kills hostages - no news from anywhere 
13/10/0299-24/11/0299 ASOS JON 1 - Meets Mance
14/10/0299-15/10/0299 ACOK ARYA 10 - Leaving Harrenhal - everything known: blackwater, Robb+Jeyne, Bran dead

I want to reiterate that a lot is possible, as Martin doesn't really care about tightness of timeline.

Edited by Errant Bard, 06 December 2012 - 02:19 AM.