406 replies to this topic

[Myrddin]

lol Some of you would take the fun out of a blow job.

I mean seriously. What book/show/movie/play can stand up to such a rabid level of nit picking?

"Why weren't the final four stronger before?" - built in strength governors? They are machines, right? Seems like a logical next step if they can supress their memories and suddenly "turn on" when they reach a certain nebula.

"Cally would NEVER sleep with someone other than Tyrol." - A year is a long time. And as someone pointed out, a lot can happen in a single evening in the cups. ;) It was a simple, and yes elegant, way to drop an unneeded subplot. An inelegant solution would be wasting an episode or two over it.

If you truly believe the writers are horrible, you will explain an actor's bad hair day as the result of bad writing. This is the best season in years, but I should have known some people are just driven to see bad in everything. This isn't a glass half full/half empty situation. This is complaining that the cup isn't filled to the rim with the correct beverage at a precise room temperature.

[TrackerNeil]

Werthead, on Jan 28 2009, 04.41, said:

One of the things they could bring up is that in Hand of God they said capturing the tylium asteroid would only give them enough fuel for 3 years. Add in the situation on New Caprica and it's been the better part of four so far, so their fuel supplies must be starting to run out. That could be a reasonable explanation for the urgent need to find a habitable planet and/or fuel source.

This is a good point, although it should be noted that 1.5 of those years were spent on New Caprica, when most of the fleet was grounded and therefore not expending fuel. Also, fewer ships left New Caprica than arrived, so that's a savings as well. But in any case they don't have infinite amounts of tylium.

Edited by TrackerNeil, 28 January 2009 - 09:15 AM.

[G'Kar]

Myrddin, on Jan 28 2009, 09.07, said:

lol Some of you would take the fun out of a blow job.

I mean seriously. What book/show/movie/play can stand up to such a rabid level of nit picking?

"Why weren't the final four stronger before?" - built in strength governors? They are machines, right? Seems like a logical next step if they can supress their memories and suddenly "turn on" when they reach a certain nebula.

Of the final four, only one has demonstrated super strength. How do you explain that? It is an awfully big writing mistake if Adama can go toe-to-toe with Tigh and hold his own, while Tory can hit Callie so hard she goes flying  in the air. Plus, I would think there would be some dialouge about their amazment at their newfound strenght, "Wow, I can bend steel girders with my bare hands..."

[Ran]

I generally agree with Myrddin. It's an "awfully big writing mistake" only if you're absorbed with narrow details and require consequently narrow explanations for those details.

Far more important in that particular scene is the question of the relationship between these two guys who are fighting, and the context within they're fighting. This has never been a show about tech and who's stronger. It doesn't mean that it totally gets to slide with continuity, but the fact is there are three or four ways to explain this little abnormality, and you can pick anyone you like, or you can shrug your shoulders and get on with appreciating the narrative.

[grozeng]

And didn't Starbuck beat up a Six when she was on Caprica in Season 2 (I think).  The Cylons don't always show super strength.  Adama fought Leoban.  Kara fought a Six.  It seems like it is something that can be turned on or off depending on the situation (or for those nitpicking - the writer's whims).

[G'Kar]

Whatever, it is just one of the many writing inconsistencies that will bug me until the end of the show.

[Ran]

I'm pretty sure Leoban did some super-strengthy things during that fight with Adama and, for that matter, I'm pretty sure Six showed them in that fight with Kara. Or, certainly, she showed super-speed anyways -- could have sworn she zipped from one side of the room to another damned quickly.

[kalbear]

I never said Cally would never do something. We don't know that much about her. But to say that it's an elegant solution to go directly against what characterization has been established is a bit of a lark. Like I said above - if you wanted to not deal with the issue, just kill the child or something. Or just don't bring it up at all. Or fanwank it away, saying that it was being born from one of the seven that made Hera special (this applies to Tigh's kid too).

Not that bugged by the strength thing. They turn that on or off on when they want to. But when they randomly decide characters do something to fit the plot, it doesn't sit all that well with me.

[Bronn Stone]

Myrddin, on Jan 28 2009, 06.07, said:

lol Some of you would take the fun out of a blow job.

This is a perfect summary of my feelings about this thread of late.

ETA - Nothing they've done of late compares with the ridiculousness of having an outside force hack a self-contained, air-gapped three part computer network.  You just have to suspend disbelief.

Edited by Bronn Stone, 28 January 2009 - 10:47 AM.

[Ser Paladin]

Of the four cylons, you have one as a slightly out of shape mechanic, one very slightly built woman, and an at-best "wiry" Tigh.  Oh, and a guy who was a world class athlete before the bombs dropped.

In the few instances where they have been shown to let loose, Tyrol did an awful lot of damage to Cally's face, Anders continues to be a top level athlete, and Tigh has a violent reputation disproportionate to his build.

Not lifting 800 pound pieces of debris, because why would they ever think they could do that.  Do you ever try to lift your car, just to see if maybe you're a cylon?  No, it never comes to mind for you.  Same for Tigh, Tyrol and the advisor.  

They never showed super strength because they would never have any reason to believe they had it.

[TrackerNeil]

Bronn Stone, on Jan 28 2009, 10.46, said:

This is a perfect summary of my feelings about this thread of late.

ETA - Nothing they've done of late compares with the ridiculousness of having an outside force hack a self-contained, air-gapped three part computer network.  You just have to suspend disbelief.

If I can accept an artificial being that can eat and get pregnant, plug into Galactica and still resemble a human so closely that even an electron microscope can't tell the difference, I can accept anything.

[Wouter]

Kalbear, on Jan 28 2009, 16.00, said:

I never said Cally would never do something. We don't know that much about her. But to say that it's an elegant solution to go directly against what characterization has been established is a bit of a lark. Like I said above - if you wanted to not deal with the issue, just kill the child or something. Or just don't bring it up at all. Or fanwank it away, saying that it was being born from one of the seven that made Hera special (this applies to Tigh's kid too).

Not that bugged by the strength thing. They turn that on or off on when they want to. But when they randomly decide characters do something to fit the plot, it doesn't sit all that well with me.

Indeed. The Cally thing is very unelegant, and the very inconsistent properties of the Cylons throughout the series (not just in "powers", but also behaviour and motivation) are irritating.

Moreover, the writers also have to use deus-ex-machina and just gloss over a number of things to make their plot work. The whole Demetrius plot, for example, smells heavily of plot device (and people acting irrationally, because of "higher powers"  - it's almost like Ta'veren) so that they can reach the alliance with the rebel Cylons. The hub, and its destruction, another giant plot device. The Cylon civil war? Interesting at first, but then given way too little screentime and explanation for such an important event. How is it possible Natalie let Cavil the control over resurrection ship and resurrection hub, as well as half the baseship, after she had beaten, humiliated and shot the lot of them? How could Cavil's forces not finish off Natalie's crippled baseship (without FTL, apparently), it's like missing an open goal from 5 cm before the line? How could Cavil and co wait so long to react at the hub, after they knew it was the rebels?

In general I'm very disappointed by the shallow way the Cylons are portrayed; apparently the writers don't want or don't dare to focus on Cylon characters, which is one of the reasons almost nothing was shown of the Cylon civil war. RDM thinks that the audience cannot be asked to care about Cylons, unless colonials are directly involved. BSG could have been like Blade Runner, only better, but whereas Blade Runner was very interested in the Replicant and a solid characterisation for them, writers on BSG don't know what to do with characters like Natalie, Caprica-6, Boomer, and don't even want to do anything with Doral or Simon. They're just background bad guys or otherwise foils for the colonials, when it comes down to it.

There is a lot wrong with the writing, not just the details, the big picture is absolutely not right either, thanks to the lack of any medium or long range planning. BSG took a nosedive in quality since mid-season 2, and it is now running on the fame it got back then.

[Bronn Stone]

And yet, you find the energy to not only watch it every week, but spend extensive time breaking down every episode in the seeming effort to drag down the enjoyment of everyone else.  

That makes even less sense than the plot patches the writers are using.

[kalbear]

I really disagree with it being lame for the most part. I wasn't thrilled with a lot of S3, but S4 was great. And last episode rocked it hard.

That's probably why I was disappointed with this one; it was a big letdown from last week's in terms of overall quality and progression of a plot.

[EHK for Darwin]

Bronn Stone, on Jan 28 2009, 18.29, said:

And yet, you find the energy to not only watch it every week, but spend extensive time breaking down every episode in the seeming effort to drag down the enjoyment of everyone else.  

That makes even less sense than the plot patches the writers are using.

Wow, this shit really keeps coming back around. I guess us nitpicky haterz should just pack our bags and leave these threads to those who have only (mostly) positive things to say about it. By all means we shouldn't let legitimate criticism get in the way of the happy circle jerk. Wouldn't want to drag down anyone's enjoyment. Cause god knows someone else saying negative things has a real impact on a person's viewing experience....

[Jaxom 1974]

EHK for a True GOP, on Jan 28 2009, 21.48, said:

Wow, this shit really keeps coming back around. I guess us nitpicky haterz should just pack our bags and leave these threads to those who have only (mostly) positive things to say about it. By all means we shouldn't let legitimate criticism get in the way of the happy circle jerk. Wouldn't want to drag down anyone's enjoyment. Cause god knows someone else saying negative things has a real impact on a person's viewing experience....

Not go around at this again with you, EHK, but is there anything discussed on these forums (with reagrd to television) that you actually like enough to praise rather than work over?  Something that you watch each week and at the end of the episode you want to talk about in a positive light?  

You or any of the other "nitpickers"...

[Bronn Stone]

EHK for a True GOP, on Jan 28 2009, 17.48, said:

Wow, this shit really keeps coming back around. I guess us nitpicky haterz should just pack our bags and leave these threads to those who have only (mostly) positive things to say about it. By all means we shouldn't let legitimate criticism get in the way of the happy circle jerk. Wouldn't want to drag down anyone's enjoyment. Cause god knows someone else saying negative things has a real impact on a person's viewing experience....

If I hated everything about a show for several straight years, I wouldn't watch it.  I certainly wouldn't spend hours breaking it down.

If there were some parts that were good and others not, then sure - point out the things that are going well and bemoan those that aren't.

But at some point it ceases to be 'legitimate criticism' and becomes 'tedious endless whingeing'.

Wouter has crossed that line for sure.  His thesis seems to be "Everything about this show fell apart early on and you are all dolts for sticking with it and let me endlessly point out why".

[EHK for Darwin]

Jaxom 1974, on Jan 28 2009, 20.10, said:

Not go around at this again with you, EHK, but is there anything discussed on these forums (with reagrd to television) that you actually like enough to praise rather than work over?  Something that you watch each week and at the end of the episode you want to talk about in a positive light?  

You or any of the other "nitpickers"...

Sure, back when Rome, The Wire, or Deadwood was on. Or Dexter or Weeds for that matter. Hell, I even liked the first couple of episodes of BSG this season. I had no problem with the way they did away with Tyrol's kid and found it to an acceptable retcon. Nor am I particularly concerned with the inconsistent treatment of Cylon superpowers. I've learned not to expect much consistency from the writers and I'm willing to overlook the minor shit. I simply object to the idea that there's something wrong with people coming into the thread with legitimate criticism (and they were legitimate points of critique, even if they were ones I was willing to overlook) and that we should all go elsewhere. I get that shit here, the Heroes thread, IMDB boards, and its quite frankly annoying.

Even if all the poster has is criticism, who gives a shit? They watch it for their reasons and others do it for their own. Than we all come here to share our views on it. The notion that sharing mostly negative views drags down someone elses enjoyment strikes me as utter bullshit. The episode doesn't become any better or worse on its own merits simply because someone gets nitpicky with it.

Also Wouter's criticisms strike me as quite valid. The Cylon Civil war was incredibly underdeveloped and should have received a heavier focus. Nor do I think the writers have a firm grasp on just what they want the Cylons to be. Those are also what I'd consider to be major issues as well.

Quote

If I hated everything about a show for several straight years, I wouldn't watch it. I certainly wouldn't spend hours breaking it down.

Again, everyone has their reasons. I hear there are even some dumbass schmucks who read Crossroads of Twilight. Some people persist in behaviors that approach outright masochism. Who knows why anyone does it. But they do. I often do. And our reasons for watching or reading probably aren't any better or worse than yours.

[The Kreb]

I have one question:  Do cylon's age?  How long has Adama known Tigh?  Has he been old man Tigh for like, ever?

[EHK for Darwin]

The Kreb, on Jan 28 2009, 21.19, said:

I have one question:  Do cylon's age?  How long has Adama known Tigh?  Has he been old man Tigh for like, ever?

The other Cylons we're pretty sure no. Different rules apply for the final 5, so they do age.