The Iain M. Banks Thread

[Werthead]

Kicking off a possible intermittent series of Banks reviews:

[url="http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009/02/look-to-windward-by-iain-m-banks.html"]From the blog:[/url]

[quote]Look to Windward is the nineteenth novel by British SF and mainstream author Iain M. Banks, and the seventh book set in his Culture universe. Published back in 2000, there was some speculation that this would be the last Culture book, especially because the title of the novel comes from T.S. Eliot's poem The Waste Land, as did that of the first Culture book, Consider Phlebas, and as a result nicely bookends the series. However, Banks did release a new Culture novel, Matter, last year.

Eight centuries ago, the Culture and the Idiran Empire fought a significant war after the latter invaded the Culture's territory. The weak, supposedly decadent Culture crushed the invaders in a conflict that lasted half a century and killed almost 900 billion sentient beings. During the course of the war two stars were destroyed, killing untold civilians on the worlds orbiting them. The Culture considers this act to have been a tragedy of the war they have been careful never to forget.

800 light-years from the location of the supernovae lies the Culture Orbital Masaq'. A ring-shaped artificial worldlet three million kilometres across, orbiting a gas giant (yes, Banks' Orbitals and Niven's Ringworld were the direct inspiration for the Halo worldlets in the computer game sereis), Masaq' is home to fifty billion intelligent life-forms. Amongst them is Mahrai Ziller, a composer and former native of the planet Chel. This world was formerly home to a rigid caste system that was inhibiting the planet's social development, so the Culture attempted an intervention meant to lead to a peaceful revolution. Instead, a bloody civil war ripped the planet apart. The Culture admitted its culpability, a shocking admission for a civilisation very rarely known to have failed in its goals.

The primary storyline sees the Chelgrian Major Quilan despatched to Masaq' to convince Ziller to return home. Ziller, who is busy preparing a symphony dedicated to remembering the war and the destroyed stars and planning to perform it as the light from their deaths reaches the Orbit, is uninterested. The Culture Mind (hyper-advanced sentient AI) which runs Masaq' takes a special and keen interest in the symphony for reasons that eventually become clear.

Look to Windward is an accomplished and intelligent science fiction novel written by one of the modern masters of the field. If not quite up there with Banks' best books, it is still a powerful novel which examines the morality of warfare, the dubious notions of 'acceptable losses' and 'proportionate responses' and the idea of what one person can do to make amends for the 'acceptable' acts they commit in war which in peace would have them condemned as a mass-murderer. It's a powerful theme and explored effectively. However, the book is at its heart a thriller as one person is given the opportunity to avenge two wrongs, one ancient and one fresh in memory, and whether they are prepared to go through with that course of action. As usual, Banks slips in his black humour, terrifically original starship names and his usual musings on how a true utopia like the Culture can survive and thrive.

Look to Windward (****½) is a terrific science fiction novel and well worth a look. It is available in the UK from Orbit and in the USA from Pocket Books.[/quote]

I actually read this book a while back, but for some reason never posted a review. Oh well, better late than never.

[Sheep the Evicted]

Excellent timing on the thread. Just finished two of Banks books, The Player of Games and Use of Weapons, in the same week for the first time. Here where my quick thoughts if anyone is interested;

[quote name='Sheep the Evicted' post='1675516' date='Feb 5 2009, 22.27']I had tried to read Use of Weapons before but i didn't like Banks writing style and i wasn't happy with the idea of robots being citizens - i suppose i just wasn't a fan of Sci-fi at the time. Anyhow after hearing about him continually for the last few months i decided to give him another go.

I started with Payer of Games last week - it was a short book and I'd heard it was one of his best. It was certainly very good; an interesting distortion of Enders Game and a brilliant setting all at once. Even though the Culture setting wasn't fully explained in the book itself - i had to i had to flesh it out on Wikipedia unfortunately - Banks could definitely do with a short forward that explained the Culture and its brief history.

I finished Player of Games four days ago and dived straight into Use of Weapons. It was even better. I'm not sure yet - because i'm still recovering from the ending and desperately need a reread - but it might even have been a masterpiece.

Great characters - when constructing this brief review in my head a few chapters ago i would have said that Zakalwe was one of my favourite characters in fiction; completely brash and more than a little crazy (i didn't know the half of it) but then all Genius' must flirt with madness - the various settings are all incredibly interesting and the mozaic puzzle plotting is breath taking.

I need a reread to make sure but at the moment i'm giving it a 9/10.[/quote]

So two questions;

I know that Player of Games and Use of Weapons are some of Banks most famous and lauded books - what are his other great culture novels ?

Are the books written in a linear fashion and do any of the plot lines in one book get picked up in any of the others ?

[Sariel]

[quote name='Sheep the Evicted' post='1676443' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.54']Excellent timing on the thread. Just finished two of Banks books, The Player of Games and Use of Weapons, in the same week for the first time. Here where my quick thoughts if anyone is interested;



So two questions;

I know that Player of Games and Use of Weapons are some of Banks most famous and lauded books - what are his other great culture novels ?

Are the books written in a linear fashion and do any of the plot lines in one book get picked up in any of the others ?[/quote]

apart from the ones mentioned here by you or wert, Consider Phlebas (which is the first culture book) and Excession are both excellent reads.

Nothing of Banks' sci fi ever comes close to Use of Weapons though, which is a truly amazing book in my opinon

[Peadar]

I liked [b]The Player of Games[/b] and loved [b]Use of Weapons[/b], but some of the more adventure focussed books in the series, i.e [b]Consider Plebas[/b] just don't do it for me. It's not that I have any problem with action books, I just think Banks does Big Ideas better. Is it just me? Does anybody else see a gap here?

[ambyr]

I enjoyed [i]Inversions[/i], my first Banks, but found [i]Consider Phlebas[/i] so dull that I stopped three chapters from the end and never went back. But it sounds like maybe I should give Banks a third shot. . . .

[Peadar]

[quote name='ambyr' post='1676487' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.40']I enjoyed [i]Inversions[/i], my first Banks, but found [i]Consider Phlebas[/i] so dull that I stopped three chapters from the end and never went back. But it sounds like maybe I should give Banks a third shot. . . .[/quote]

I enjoyed [b]Inversions[/b] too and (see my post just above yours), failed at [b]Consider Phlebas[/b]. I definitely think you should give [b]Use of Weapons[/b] a go.

[MinDonner]

[b]Player of Games[/b] and [b]Excession[/b] are my favourite Culture novels; I quite enjoyed Phlebas when I first read it, but not so much on rereads. Use of Weapons I can also take or leave; Inversions, too. I've only read Look to Windward the once so far, and probably should give it another go sometime.

His non-Culture SF is also excellent - Feersum Endjinn and Against A Dark Background especially. The Algebraist sucks big donkey cocks, however; occasionally there'd be a moment where I'd think "hey, this bit feels a bit like an Iain M Banks book" and then remember that it WAS a Banks book masquerading as mediocre sci-fi.

[Filippa Eilhart]

[quote name='Peadar' post='1676483' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.35']I liked [b]The Player of Games[/b] and loved [b]Use of Weapons[/b], but some of the more adventure focussed books in the series, i.e [b]Consider Plebas[/b] just don't do it for me. It's not that I have any problem with action books, I just think Banks does Big Ideas better. Is it just me? Does anybody else see a gap here?[/quote]

Are those two not adventure books? Tortured protagonists can have adventures too. I kind of see what you mean, [i]Player of Games[/i] and [i]Use of Weapons [/i]make you think more. But the idea of the Culture (introduced in [i]Consider Phlebas[/i]) [i]is[/i] a big idea.

Anyway, I find [i]Against a Dark Background[/i] to be his best SF book.

[Peadar]

[quote name='Filippa Eilhart' post='1676516' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.00']Are those two not adventure books? Tortured protagonists can have adventures too. I kind of see what you mean, [i]Player of Games[/i] and [i]Use of Weapons [/i]make you think more. But the idea of the Culture (introduced in [i]Consider Phlebas[/i]) [i]is[/i] a big idea.

Anyway, I find [i]Against a Dark Background[/i] to be his best SF book.[/quote]

Yes, they are adventure books too, of course. And yes, the Culture is a big idea (or bag of ideas). It's just a matter of focus, really.

I like your sig. by the way ;)

[Sheep the Evicted]

So i take it the answer to my second question is "Nope. None of the books revisit plot lines in other books and Yes, all the books are written one after the other."

[Arthmail]

Really, really not impressed with Consider Philebas. I haven't been able to touch anything of his since, but sometimes i wonder if i just wasn't in a Sci-Fi mood, and then i try to reread and want to hurt myself.

What would, in others estimtations, be the best place to start?

[mashiara]

I've read [i]The Wasp Factory[/i] and I found it fascinating. I have [i]Use of Weapons[/i] sitting on my pile, I'm planning on getting to it soon. I should probably avoid this thread so I don't get spoilered, right?

[Ran]

Interesting. I adored [i]Consider Phlebas[/i]. As others said, it's the introduction to the whole milieu and that in itself a Big Idea. His description of things like Orbitals and events like galactic warfare is just awe-inspiring; the massiveness of it really hits home.

Still, if anything, I think I preferred [i]Player of Games[/i] overall, and the resolution of [i]Use of Weapons[/i] knocked my socks off (but it took awhile to get to that point.)

[A wilding]

[quote name='Arthmail' post='1676700' date='Feb 6 2009, 17.09']Really, really not impressed with Consider Philebas ...

What would, in others estimtations, be the best place to start?[/quote]
[i]Consider Phlebas[/i] is definitely not typical, it was Banks first SF book and it shows, I don't think he had quite found his voice yet.

I would suggest Use of Weapons (generally considered the best but a little hard to get into), or [i]Player of Games[/i] (simpler, but still good).


mashiara: Yes, [i]Use of Weapons[/i] is vulnerable to spoilering.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Sheep the Evicted' post='1676557' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.16']So i take it the answer to my second question is "Nope. None of the books revisit plot lines in other books and Yes, all the books are written one after the other."[/quote]

[i]Look to Windward[/i] is the most continuity-heavy that I know of, but those references amount to a few mentions of the events in [i]Consider Phlebas[/i] and a fairly obscure one to one of the Ships in [i]Excession[/i], and that's about it. Large amounts of time take place between the books as well: [i]Phlebas[/i] takes place around 1300 AD, [i]Excession[/i] around 1800-1900, [i]The State of the Art[/i] takes place in the 1970s and [i]Windward[/i] takes place around 2100 AD. So there's not too much scope for continuity between the books.

[polishgenius]

Look to Windward is my favourite Culture novel... there's a sort of whistful sense about it that I really enjoy. Excession is great too, the conversations between Minds being highlights.
I mean, all of them are good, but those two stood out for me. Just picked up Matter the other day, hear it's not quite as good but not-quite-as-good Culture should still be well on par with most else...

Non-Culture, I've read Against a Dark Background which is great, and The Algebraist which I didn't think was very good at all.

[williamjm]

[quote name='Peadar' post='1676483' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.35']I liked [b]The Player of Games[/b] and loved [b]Use of Weapons[/b], but some of the more adventure focussed books in the series, i.e [b]Consider Plebas[/b] just don't do it for me. It's not that I have any problem with action books, I just think Banks does Big Ideas better. Is it just me? Does anybody else see a gap here?[/quote]

The problem I had with Consider Phlebas was that the first half in particular had some serious problems with the storytelling - Banks introduced about 20 characters on board the ship in a chapter but never introduced any of them properly and when they start getting killed off it's impossible to care about what's happening. The plot was also poorly focused, although Horza has an important mission to do for most of the first 2/3 of the book he makes very little progress on it (admittedly, there are reasons for this) and the events like the raid on the temple or the bit on the island seem a bit irrelevant to the main plot. I thought the book improved significantly from the time when the spaceship breaks out of the Orbital and then the journey into the Command System when the plot is much more coherent and the smaller number of characters have actually been introduced and given some proper characterisation.

Out of the other Banks books I've read I thought [i]Use of Weapons[/i] was one of the best Science Fiction books I've read and it definitely has one of the most memorable endings and one of the most memorable characters in Zakalwe. Player Of Games, Excession (although that one did suffer a bit from a tedious sub-plot) and Inversions were also good. I didn't like [i]State of the Art[/i] though, the plot seemed a bit weak although the bit where one of the main characters gets obsessed with Star Trek was quite amusing. I should get around to reading [i]Look to Windward[/i] fairly soon.

[Horza]

Man, this Iain Banks guy sucks!

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1677252' date='Feb 6 2009, 13.38'][i]Look to Windward[/i] is the most continuity-heavy that I know of, but those references amount to a few mentions of the events in [i]Consider Phlebas[/i] and a fairly obscure one to one of the Ships in [i]Excession[/i], and that's about it. Large amounts of time take place between the books as well: [i]Phlebas[/i] takes place around 1300 AD, [i]Excession[/i] around 1800-1900, [i]The State of the Art[/i] takes place in the 1970s and [i]Windward[/i] takes place around 2100 AD. So there's not too much scope for continuity between the books.[/quote]
And only the one recurring character.

[Werthead]

Carrying on with the Banks read-through.

[quote]Iain Banks had already published three mainstream novels by the time Consider Phlebas was published in 1987. When his publishers suggested using a pseudonym to make it easier to distinguish between his SF and mainstream work, Banks decided to adopt the impenetrable alias 'Iain M. Banks' for his SF and leave his mainstream work under the name 'Iain Banks', a tradition he maintains to this day.

[url="http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009/03/consider-phlebas-by-iain-m-banks.html"]Consider Phlebas [/url]introduces the Culture. A vast, utopian society of trillions of humanoids populating planets, Dyson Spheres, Niven-esque Rings and Orbitals and vast sentient starships, the Culture is the ultimate civilised society where the people have given over the running of their civilisation wholly to machines - the Minds - so they can chill out and have a good time. Of course, this leads other species to view them as weak, indolent and decadent. Suspicious of the steadily expanding sphere of Culture influence in the Galaxy, the fanatically religious Idirans decide to take action and declare war against the Culture. Soon, the Culture is retreating on every front as the aggressive Idirans sweep towards the Culture homeworlds, and the Galaxy anticipates a quick end to the war with a negotiated settlement.

Four years into the war, the Culture is still holding out, to the bemusement of the Galaxy at large. Whilst warships fight across mind-boggling distances, Idiran and Culture agents are also battling for influence on various neutral worlds. During one such clandestine operation, the Changer operative Horza (leasing his services to the Idirans) runs afoul of a Culture Special Circumstances agent and is arrested. Managing to escape under the cover of an Idiran planetary assault, he finds himself shanghaied into the crew of a mercenary ship and then dragged halfway around the Galaxy before he can undertake his next Idiran mission, namely the recovery of a Culture Mind that jettisoned from its ship and crashed on a planet sealed off from the rest of the Galaxy by an ultra-powerful 'ascended' species.

Consider Phlebas wasn't Banks' first SF novel: he had written several others previously (including the ones later published, after much revision, as Player of Games and Use of Weapons). This experience shows in a book which is highly polished and thoroughly readable. The storyline is gripping and, thanks to Banks' black humour, highly enjoyable with some decidedly Douglas Adams-esque moments of humour (the increasingly exasperated Culture drones are particularly amusing). Horza makes for a fascinating protagonist, a sympathetic guy (despite doing some very bad things) whose problems and arguments with the Culture are understandable. By introducing the Culture in this way - by making it almost the 'bad' guy from Horza's point of view - Banks allows for much greater analysis of the society and the way it works (not to mention some excellently subtle worldbuilding) rather than having a Culture hero telling us how great it is.

The result is a book that is fast-paced, overflowing with ideas (the Orbital Vavatch, its Megaships, the Culture ships and the Command System are all genuinely impressive SF concepts) and is genuinely funny in places, although still with a thoughtful, wry ending. An excellent introduction to Iain Banks' work. The prose isn't quite as polished as his later works, but is still of impressive quality.

Consider Phlebas (****½) is available now from Orbit in the UK and USA.[/quote]