Kalbear, on Feb 13 2009, 17.47, said:
Because comparing it to historical fictions like the Iliad (which have women all over the place) and comparing it to historical documents like Roman surveys from consuls is not the same thing.
Similarly, comparing Tolkien to various mythologies is not the same thing as comparing it to scribes recording the lineage of the Tudors.
Jeordhi was saying that in history, there weren't many women mentioned, so it's okay. That may be true, but this isn't history. This is closer to an epic poem - and epic poems have tons of women in 'em.
There are women all over the place in the Illiad, but considering that the most important women for the plot of the Illiad is a sex object that launched 1,000 ships and Achilles's anger with Agamemnon, and reason for subsequent sitting out of most of the war, is that he stole his sex object prize, I'm not sure how much better your case for such women is in the Illiad. The only other thing which would make it more comparable to the Illiad would for the Padirajah's wife and daughters to be sold into slavery or captured as sex prizes.
It does, but Bakker doesn't romanticize them or make them worse; he deletes them completely.
He deletes alot of people though, which is the point that Shryke seems to be making.
Part of the problem is the rapid speed of the Holy War. Many women were in the historical crusades because the crusaders had land holdings and establishments where they had encroached themselves. The Holy War is practically a single non-stop march from Momemn to Shimeh. This situation changes what is feasible. I suppose Scott could have expanded the Holy War to ten books and stretch it over a two-hundred year period of back-and-forth fighting between the Fanim and Inithri with multiple crusades.
Ran, on Feb 13 2009, 17.52, said:
Noblemen writing about other noblemen.
Bakker has POVs from a concubine, a whore, and an itinerant Mandati schoolman. Any of these could just as well have interacted with some non-objectified woman, if Bakker had wanted to do so. He didn't. Again, it's a conscious choice on his part to write something that was ... parareal, maybe? It's not any Middle Ages I know, but it's a particular take on a particular notion of the Middle Ages.
A concubine whose company were Kellhus, Cnaiur, and noblemen. A whore whose company and clients were noblemen. And an itinerant Mandati schoolman who was instructed to go along with the Holy War to watch Kellhus and who already had high connections with Conriyan nobility.
Edited by Matrim Fox Cauthon, 13 February 2009 - 06:10 PM.