Shryke Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1747229' date='Apr 6 2009, 17.08']You're secretly Edward Cullen? :o[/quote] No, no, no, I just eat Meyer "vampires" on occasion. The sparkle goes through yuor system like corn-skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1745478' date='Apr 5 2009, 09.45']You know, it [[i]Eragon[/i], etc] may not be suitable reading for us - but my 11 year old son loves it. And if it got one more kid into [i]reading[/i], and reading fantasy...then it's done a good thing, right?[/quote] No. Reading crap is most likely to lead to reading more crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookWyrm Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747429' date='Apr 6 2009, 20.01']See, I read crap like "Forgotten Realms" and "Dragonlance" when I was a kid. Today, I'm reading quality works of fiction by George RR Martin. Stepping up is indeed possible.[/quote] Absolutely. The one truly invincible quality of any book that anyone has ever read, is that it has gotten them to [i]read[/i]. I guess all of us being big time readers ourselves, I can imagine it being difficult to recognize the importance of that trait in a society where television and video/computer games are starting to substitute reading as a hobby for many kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dow Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Jaqen the FatManderly' post='1747400' date='Apr 6 2009, 19.40']No. Reading crap is most likely to lead to reading more crap.[/quote] Even more problematic is that commercially successful crap encourages publishers to publish more crap. The question is this: when a Paolini or a Goodkind hits the bestseller list, does that cause a publisher to become willing to take a chance on fantasy in general (which is a good thing, as an increase in fantasy novels will mean an increase in the probability of discovering a good one), or does it cause a publisher to determine that the lowest common denominator is what sells best, and seek the next Paolini, at the expense of someone infinitaly better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747429' date='Apr 6 2009, 20.01']See, I read crap like "Forgotten Realms" and "Dragonlance" when I was a kid. Today, I'm reading quality works of fiction by George RR Martin. Stepping up is indeed possible.[/quote] Can you at least step him up to BETTER crap? I mean, there's crap like Eddings or Salvatore, and then there's Goodkind or Paolini or Meyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747429' date='Apr 6 2009, 20.01']See, I read crap like "Forgotten Realms" and "Dragonlance" when I was a kid. Today, I'm reading quality works of fiction by George RR Martin. Stepping up is indeed possible.[/quote] No offense, but your example supports my point. There are so many fun, exciting, well-written books for children, for adolescents, for teens ... there's no reason to expose developing minds to crud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I read Paolini just to see how much of the stuff he plagiarized I could pick up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixodes Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Jaqen the FatManderly' post='1747400' date='Apr 6 2009, 18.40']No. Reading crap is most likely to lead to reading more crap.[/quote] Umm, did it occur to you that maybe the 11 year old [i]chose[/i] to read Eragon? And maybe degrading their choices isn't the best way to cultivate a young child's reading interest? I'll never understand this desire to shove one's opinion down everyone else's throat. You can get kids better books down the road but forcing your tastes onto them isn't really a great plan for encouraging independent thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookWyrm Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747577' date='Apr 6 2009, 22.19']And anything is better than another video game.[/quote] :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerec Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Only read the first few posts, but I just wanted to say... I wrote stuff at 16. It was garbage. I wrote stuff at 20. It was looking better and better, but still needed a lot of work. I write stuff at 24. The writing is improving, but I know I've still got a long way before I get anything published. The problem with Paolini is that he got something published at 16, developed a huge ego about his writing, and there's less incentive for him to try and improve. Perhaps his writing will one day improve, but he's already got a name that can sell books, and unlike the rest of us unpublished wannabe writers, he doesn't have to improve to get any further stories published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747577' date='Apr 6 2009, 22.19']I mean, I've suggested [i]The Belgariad[/i], (he's a little too young for Salvatore), and showed him some Anne McCaffrey...but he says it looks "boring". Yes, he's a tween, and is going to reject what I say because I suggest it. Frankly, I'm better off NOT suggesting anything, and letting him wander the library searching for something he enjoys. Sooner or later he'll come to the good stuff. And anything is better than another video game.[/quote] Why not suggest something of high quality? I like McCaffrey, and Eddings is tolerable, but c'mon. What about Saki? Poe? Kipling? Stevenson? Twain? Longfellow? Lewis, Nesbit, White, MacDonald, Alexander? There is so much excellent reading material out there that kids probably won't just stumble upon in a library, if they ever go. There's edgy stuff, scary stuff, innocent, adventurous, romantic, funny .... such a range of good quality to choose from. I understand that kids - and adults, myself included - are skittish about taking suggestions. But that's why you stock your house with plenty of good books, which gives the child a wide opportunity to pick whatever is to his taste - and have it improve his mind rather than rot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1747450' date='Apr 6 2009, 18.20']Can you at least step him up to BETTER crap? I mean, there's crap like Eddings or Salvatore, and then there's Goodkind or Paolini or Meyers.[/quote] I feel like I have never read anything so terrible as the half of book I read by Salvatore. I mean that was moronic writing. Eddings was dreadful too, but I'd keep him at the same level as Paolini. I remember a guy I worked with who loved fantasy but was kind of picked on for it. So I told him I liked fantasy and was reading Martin. He'd never heard of Martin so I gave him my copy of Game. He never read it but he did give a copy of some Salvatore book. After finishing half of it, I never asked him about Martin again and joined in on the ribbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pita Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I really disagree with Shryke. I picked up A Game of Thrones because I thought "Nice title, this is fantasy, maybe he'll be as good as Goodkind. Besides, it's second book half off and I'm already getting Eldest", right before heading in to see Eragon in movie theaters. I picked up Goodkind because I thought "Maybe this will be as good as Salvatore. Besides, I already got it as a birthday present." And I picked up Salvatore because I was told that Drizz't was awesome, and that it would definitely be better than Animorphs. I reserve my right to disagree, since Animorphs is the greatest book series ever. But crap fantasy definitely lead me to better quality fantasy. If the first guy had never told me about Drizz't, I would not be reading Martin, Hobb, and Erikson today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max the Mostly Mediocre Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1747577' date='Apr 6 2009, 19.19']And anything is better than another video game.[/quote] Torment is a better literary experience than no few novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 [quote name='The Pita Enigma' post='1749129' date='Apr 8 2009, 00.48']I really disagree with Shryke. I picked up A Game of Thrones because I thought "Nice title, this is fantasy, maybe he'll be as good as Goodkind. Besides, it's second book half off and I'm already getting Eldest", right before heading in to see Eragon in movie theaters. I picked up Goodkind because I thought "Maybe this will be as good as Salvatore. Besides, I already got it as a birthday present." And I picked up Salvatore because I was told that Drizz't was awesome, and that it would definitely be better than Animorphs. I reserve my right to disagree, since Animorphs is the greatest book series ever. But crap fantasy definitely lead me to better quality fantasy. If the first guy had never told me about Drizz't, I would not be reading Martin, Hobb, and Erikson today.[/quote] It often depends. No ones saying it CAN'T lead you to better fantasy, I'm just saying you should try and lead faster and avoid the pitfalls. Don't let them get stymied in the shit-waters of Paolini on the way from Drizzt -> ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatole Kuragin Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 +1 video games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcp54 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 eragon was great eldest was bad brisingr was terrible eragorn showed tremendous pottentail for paolini, oregon might have been cliched but it was still fun nonthereless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picaroon Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hey, I live in Oregon and I don't think it's cliched in the slightest. Washington, on the other hand, is just a re-hash of things that other states have already done better. [quote name='jcp54' post='1751769' date='Apr 10 2009, 12.31']eragon was great eldest was bad brisingr was terrible eragorn showed tremendous pottentail for paolini, oregon might have been cliched but it was still fun nonthereless.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dow Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 [quote name='jcp54' post='1751769' date='Apr 10 2009, 15.31']eragon was great eldest was bad brisingr was terrible eragorn showed tremendous pottentail for paolini, oregon might have been cliched but it was still fun nonthereless.[/quote] Eragon was great? If I may ask, do you also like Stanek or Goofkind or Newcombe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palimpsest. Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 About reading crap at 11 - I think we've all been there, although I'm now amazed at how much I've managed to miss. I started with Hobbit as a 10-yr-old (got it for christmas - I wanted Harry Potter and felt cheated until I actually read Hobbit), continued with LoTR at 11 and then loved them above all else until I was about 15 or so and old enough to read in English (it's probably a bit different for native speakers, but still), then went directly for Pratchett and later, at 16, Martin. I did not really get much of those crappy books - LOTR is a classic, even if it's a bit naive and so - but I did read Eragon when it got translated into my language. I was 14 at the time and despised Paolini for so obviously copying LoTR. I can't really say whether reading such 'crappy books' is ok or not, because I know people who moved on to better ones and also those who, after years of reading, still wish for nothing more than Forgotten Realms books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.