255 replies to this topic

[CleganeBros]

I read the book for 5th or 6th time recently and payed attention to some details I didn't saw before. There is the scene when Brien and her party spend the night into some kind of a monastery and one of the brothers tells her he has burried Sandor with his own hands. Several times a figure appeared there - a new brother, who is described as very strond, limp and higher than Brien. Could he be Sandor? Yes, he died for this world and started repenting his sins, serving in silence.

[Tywin Lannister]

CleganeBros, on May 4 2009, 11.16, said:

I read the book for 5th or 6th time recently and payed attention to some details I didn't saw before. There is the scene when Brien and her party spend the night into some kind of a monastery and one of the brothers tells her he has burried Sandor with his own hands. Several times a figure appeared there - a new brother, who is described as very strond, limp and higher than Brien. Could he be Sandor? Yes, he died for this world and started repenting his sins, serving in silence.

Yes, the gravedigger at the Quiet Island is Sandor, there are numerous several references to it:

1. The gravedigger is a notably big man (like Sandor).

2. The gravedigger is injuried, and his injuries matches those Sandor has recieved.

3. Dog coming up to gravedigger and gravdigger's petting him is a obvious nod at the gravedigger's being Sandor.

4. When Brienne asks the abbot if Sandor is dead, he curiously replies that "he is in peace"; obviously meaning to mislead Brienne into believing that Sandor is dead without lying outright.

[kadvael]

The presence of his horse at the Quiet Island also gives us a good indication.

[Tywin Lannister]

kadvael, on May 4 2009, 11.45, said:

The presence of his horse at the Quiet Island also gives us a good indication.

Not really, the abbot would still take Stranger to the Quiet Island, even if Sandor has died. If anything, the fact that the monks were attempting to geld Stranger and fit him for labor suggests that they aren’t expecting Sandor to ride him again, which rather suggest that Sandor is dead then otherwise (but there are several other factors that suggest that Sandor is still alive).

[Errant Bard]

Tywin Lannister, on May 4 2009, 10.07, said:

Not really, the abbot would still take Stranger to the Quiet Island, even if Sandor has died.

Not really, Sandor is the only one who can ride or lead Stranger, it has been said and shown many times.

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If anything, the fact that the monks were attempting to geld Stranger and fit him for labor suggests that they aren’t expecting Sandor to ride him again, which rather suggest that Sandor is dead then otherwise (but there are several other factors that suggest that Sandor is still alive).

The elder brother said they attempted it, but he can lie as well as any other. Also, I don't get why a former knight turned monk envisioning another future for Sandor than fighting suggests that Sandor is dead, the elder brother isn't dead and he has no need for warhorses.

[Tywin Lannister]

Errant Bard, on May 4 2009, 12.21, said:

The elder brother said they attempted it, but he can lie as well as any other. Also, I don't get why a former knight turned monk envisioning another future for Sandor than fighting suggests that Sandor is dead, the elder brother isn't dead and he has no need for warhorses.

What purpose would that lie serve?

The abbot clearly shows that he is willing to lie only in extreme cases, and when Brienne directly asks him if Sandor is dead he replies with rather ambiguous “he is in peace”, the meaning of which someone smarter then Brienne would question – a risk that the abbot knowingly takes to avoid lying outright.

And from the abbot’s story I would rather imagine that he would prefer Sandor to indeed “find peace”, like he did, not to return to fighting as soon as he recovered. So, I believe that what the abbot told Brienne about the monks trying to geld Stranger and fit him for labor is true (and the fact that the monks failed at that likely an indication that Sandor’s fighting days are not done).

[Blauerdrakken]

Yes. He's alive and until recently was serving as a grave digger.

[Torcen]

the Blauer Dragon, on May 4 2009, 10.31, said:

Yes. He's alive and until recently was serving as a grave digger.

What do you mean until recently? Is there evidence that he's moved on?

[leighstark]

I thought the same thing when I read that.  I don't think GRRM is done with him yet.  :fence:

[Shemy]

Tywin Lannister, on May 4 2009, 03.07, said:

Not really, the abbot would still take Stranger to the Quiet Island, even if Sandor has died. If anything, the fact that the monks were attempting to geld Stranger and fit him for labor suggests that they aren’t expecting Sandor to ride him again, which rather suggest that Sandor is dead then otherwise (but there are several other factors that suggest that Sandor is still alive).

Well riding the hounds horse when he wants to keep a low profile would be a bad move would it not ;p. More than likely he was telling the truth but it has no indication of that Sandor is dead whatsoever. Sandor would not right the hounds mount unless he wanted to become the hound again.

Maybe like Martin intended, that the hound is dead and buried? Yep, I can certainly agree with that. But not Sandor.

[larajane]

From FAQ in The Citadel :

6.1.8. Is Sandor dead?

In general, it’s not believed that Sandor Clegane is dead, despite the testimony of Elder Brother and others. The reason for this is quite simple: the gravedigger.

When Brienne visits the Quiet Isle, she notes that the novices of the order are not only sworn to silence, but wear woolen scarves that hide their faces. While walking up the path to see Elder Brother, she notices a novice digging in the lichyard who’s described as even larger than her and lame (IV: 463). When Dog goes up to him, he drops his spade and scratches the dog’s ear (IV: 464). Later, during a meal, the novice is described moving with a half-lurching gait (IV: 467). Finally, when Brienne discusses Sandor Clegane with the Elder Brother, she dejectedly remarks that Sandor Clegane is dead, to which he responds, "He is at rest." (IV: 470) Later, he says, "the Hound is Dead".

GRRM has previously stated that Sandor Clegane is taller than Brienne (SSM). As last seen in ASoS, he had taken a wound to his hip that became dangerously infected, recovery from which could very likely leave his movement in that leg impaired. And as he told Sansa in ACoK, he was fond of dogs (II: 211). These details all fit the large, limping, dog-loving novice. Combined with Elder Brother’s very specific phrasing—that Sandor Clegane is "at rest" but that "the Hound" is dead—it’s been understood that Elder Brother is hiding the truth without outright lying. The novice who is trying to find peace on the Quiet Isle is Sandor, who has put aside the rage and hatred that made him the Hound, "killing" that part of his persona.

[Tywin Lannister]

Shemy, on May 7 2009, 18.45, said:

Well riding the hounds horse when he wants to keep a low profile would be a bad move would it not ;p. More than likely he was telling the truth but it has no indication of that Sandor is dead whatsoever. Sandor would not right the hounds mount unless he wanted to become the hound again.

Maybe like Martin intended, that the hound is dead and buried? Yep, I can certainly agree with that. But not Sandor.

Re-read my posts.

I never suggest that Sandor is dead, I only say that Stranger stabled at the Quiet Island has nothing to do with it: he would have been there whether Sandor was alive or no.

[Shemy]

Tywin Lannister, on May 8 2009, 06.52, said:

Re-read my posts.

I never suggest that Sandor is dead, I only say that Stranger stabled at the Quiet Island has nothing to do with it: he would have been there whether Sandor was alive or no.

Aha my apologies, I mis-read on the first sentence and thought you meant that the fact that they have Stranger supports that Sandor died :<.

[Chalky]

larajane, on May 7 2009, 12.34, said:

Combined with Elder Brother’s very specific phrasing—that Sandor Clegane is "at rest" but that "the Hound" is dead—it’s been understood that Elder Brother is hiding the truth without outright lying. The novice who is trying to find peace on the Quiet Isle is Sandor, who has put aside the rage and hatred that made him the Hound, "killing" that part of his persona.

Booooo, bring back the rage

[Hot Pie for President]

Quote

Booooo, bring back the rage

:agree:

[Ladyof7Hells]

Chalky, on May 19 2009, 11.40, said:

Booooo, bring back the rage

The rage will be back once Sandor gets a look at his FrankenMcGregor brother, he believes him dead, the brother said something like "even that was taken from him" (Sandor being able to kill his brother).

[StarkTheWolf]

I think the most defining detail that proves Sandor is alive is one that most people didn't mention: he's a novice. A newly inducted member, one that just came. I think the timeline from when Arya left him to when Brienne arrived at the sequestered monastery is roughly a month. That fits in perfectly with him becoming a "novice". He's only been there a short amount of time.

[Salami]

One problem with this theory is that while on the Quiet island the novices -including would-be Sandor- served Brienne and the rest while they were eating. One would think Sandors burned face would reveal his true identity to Brienne.

Of course he could have worn a veil of some sort but it is not mentioned in the text.

[The hairy bear]

Salami, on May 27 2009, 09.52, said:

Of course he could have worn a veil of some sort but it is not mentioned in the text.

Quoting again from the Citadel's fact above,

"When Brienne visits the Quiet Isle, she notes that the novices of the order are not only sworn to silence, but wear woolen scarves that hide their faces."