Comics, Graphic Novels and Manga

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Garlan's list is pretty good, although it overlooks a fair amount of pretty accessible Marvel and DC stuff. Then again, since the indie stuff is usually given short shrift, that's perfectly fine.

Gonna give League of Extraordinary Gentleman a try this weekend.

It's good, but understand going in that while it's an extremely literate adventure romp, it's still an adventure romp.

[The Pita]

The annotations for League are longer than League itself...

By the way, I own the following:

Sandman 1-3, League 1-2, V for Vendetta, Watchmen, Preacher 1, and a single Wolverine comic (not a GN). Not to mention Order of the Stick: On the Origin of PCs and Order of the Stick: Start of Darkness.

[Cuchulain]

I'm relatively new to graphic novels and I was wondering if someone could list the must-read all-time classics in the genre.

The ones I already own:

Watchmen

V for Vendetta

The Hedge Knight

The Dark Knight Returns

A few I've heard good things about (and will probably buy at some point):

Transmetropolitan

Sandman

Preacher

From Hell

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Sin City

Maus (Spiegelman)

[polishgenius]

I found League of Extraordinary Gentlemen quite underwhelming. It's not a bad comic or anything, but I was expecting greatness. It may not have helped that I'd recently started Planetary, which has a similar idea in terms of being an adventure-romp tribute to classic fictions, and I thought it was much better.

Of Alan Moore's later work, I much prefer Top 10, which I think is seriously underrated or at least underread.

[Ocean of Notions]

Read the first two books of Y: the Last Man. Freaking awesome. If I wasn't so poor, I'd go out and buy the next volumes immediately.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Recently discovered Marvel Adventures Avengers and Superheroes; quite a bit of fun. Semi-old school, angst-free superheroics. Each issue made me laugh at least once. Relatively cheap, too, as the titles are available only in digest form. So $8/4 issues, basically (and qualifies for 4-for-3, if you use amazon). Also read the first few issues of Milligan's X-Force, which reminded me how awesome Marvel was at the turn of the century. Pretty solid superhero-as-celeb stuff. I'll definitely be picking up the rest of his run on X-Force and X-Statix, availability allowing (looks like they're OOP but still sorta available).

I'm relatively new to graphic novels and I was wondering if someone could list the must-read all-time classics in the genre.

Criminal - Noir crime stuff

Whiteout - murder + Antarctica = cold

Astro City - more or less traditional superheroics, but done extremely well.

Black Hole - I dunno how to describe it. Body horror? Like, high school students contracting an STD that deforms you. It's pretty damn weird. Also pretty damn awesome.

Punisher MAX - The Ennis run. Better than Preacher.

The Authority - Ellis' run. Superheroes + massive carnage = sweet.

[The Pita]

Transmetropolitan

Sandman

Preacher

From Hell

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Sin City

Maus (Spiegelman)

Anything by Alan Moore will tend to become better as you become a better reader. League is not read for the plot. It's read for the layers upon layers of literary characters showing up, as well as other victorian implications

Preacher, so far, is brilliant.

Sin City I heard good things about, but I generally dislike Frank Miller.

Maus is considered Comic Book Literature. The biggest anti-comic-book snobs have nothing bad to say about it. Never read it, but that's what I've heard.

Transmetropolitan is funny and sick. Warren Ellis is a brilliant brilliant man, and Spider Jerusalem a great character.

And there isn't enough I can say about Sandman. Sandman is great. Sandman is awesome. All hail Neil Gaiman. The man is a multi-genre genius. I don't think there's a single genre not encompassed by Sandman except for sci-fi, which is because it's already Fantasy. It's a romantic horror adventure comedy with quite a bit of human storytelling that has nothing to do with those labels. It's Sandman. Although the first volume isn't as good as the rest, and I think that the award winning story there (A Midsummer Night's Dream) isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's good, but I preferred The Collectors. There's a horror story well told if you want one.

Other comic books I would advise you to get?

The Killing Joke by Alan Moore is the least deep of his works, but in my opinion is better than both TDK and Y1, the other two "great" batman stories.

Deadpool is funny, and some of the only Marvel I read.

300 the GN is supposed to be great. I really preferred the movie, after seeing both. It got the point of the comic book and added Zack Snyder's touch ("As subtle as a mallet to the brain" should be the guy's motto), and a lot of memetic mutation.

And I heard that the "Ultimate" line in Marvel is good. As well as anything else by Neil Gaiman.

Oh, yeah, don't get The Color of Magic GN. One of the biggest wastings I've ever had on a book.

Alan Moore's Top 10 is excellent. Cops+Superheroes=Good.

[haLobEnder]

Just finished the first hardcover volume of The Walking Dead. It's actually the first thing of Kirkman's I've read that I really enjoyed.

There were some problems with it --Kirkman can't write kids for the life of him-- but the story itself has me hooked. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on the subsequent volumes now.

Next up on the reading list is Frey. I'm not much of a fan of the Buffyverse but this is a different enough take on it to have me intrigued.

[usul]

in France, we are fund of mangas, much more than US comics, but we have graphics novels since a long time (what we call "Bandes Dessinées").

cycles like capitain harlock, goldorack (for the oldest), dragon ball (forget the movie please), saint seyia or city hunter (for the little younger) and robotech, evangelion, akira are very popular here !

Us comics are known because of superhoeroes but now that there is movies for them ... same thing for independant stuff like GAIMAN, MOORE OR MILLER

if some of you guys can read french and wanted to read some european comics, i can drive give the main cycles (XIII, largo winch , thorgal ....)

[haLobEnder]

if some of you guys can read french and wanted to read some european comics, i can drive give the main cycles (XIII, largo winch , thorgal ....)

I read a lot of European comics when I was living in Quebec as a way to help me learn French. I find it a bit of the shame that said comics aren't as easy to find in other parts of North America as I really dug the stuff I read back then and would love to read more of it.

Marvel has been translating some of the Soleil stuff into English and I think DC translated Les Humanoides Associes stuff for a while. That said, it still hasn't caught on here and a large majority of what I'd like to read has yet to see (and likely never will) see English publication.

I don't know why we North Americans love our superhero stuff. I for one would much rather be following the adventures of Thorgal than those of Superman :P

[polishgenius]

Thorgal is epic to start with, and beautifully drawn to boot, but sadly got repetitive and silly as it got towards the end, and the change in art style was crap in my opinion. I haven't read the sequel series about Jolan yet, has anyone? Is it good?

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Sin City I heard good things about, but I generally dislike Frank Miller.

Word up. First Miller I read was Dark Knight Strikes Again, which didn't help. Second Miller was DKR, which I think is hugely overrated. Third Miller was All Star Batman and Robin, which is laughable.

Marvel has been translating some of the Soleil stuff into English and I think DC translated Les Humanoides Associes stuff for a while.

Honestly? I downloaded three of the Soleil books as a try-before-you-buy thing, and discovered that I didn't like them very much. They weren't bad, but they weren't anything like the masterpieces I was expecting. They weren't even particularly good. Competent, yes (although I had the niggling feeling something was lost in translation), but not much more than that.

Art was beautiful in all cases, though.

[Shryke]

League is not read for the plot. It's read for the layers upon layers of literary characters showing up, as well as other victorian implications

I'd agree on that. I read LoEG vol. 1 and it was good and lots of fun, but nothing special. The Victorian Literature references were cool, but beyond that is wasn't like the awesomeness that was Watchmen.

[Ocean of Notions]

Speaking of European works, a friend at Marvel told me that Skydoll is pretty good. I suppose I'll have to hunt down a comic book shop in this area and find it.

[polishgenius]

Third Miller was All Star Batman and Robin, which is laughable.

All Star B&R is hilarious. I just thought he was pretty much taking the piss out of his own reputation the whole way through. I can see how it annoyed people expecting a serious comic or something like All Star Superman, but I came into it with no expectations and thought it was hysterical.

Plus anything drawn by Jim Lee is going to look good, which it did, if in as completely over-the-top a way as the writing.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Jim Lee's art doesn't impress me. Like, at all. As for ASB&R being a parody, well, could well be. But the margin separating it from his more serious work is vanishingly thin, and I find them indistinguishable.

Speaking of terrible comics, Ultimatum. This is the sort of thing I feel absolutely zero guilt over torrenting, as it makes Witchblade look good. Yeah, seriously; the Witchblade is better than Ultimatum. Way to go Jeph Loeb, you're completely incompetent. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say that every single person who has participated in this thread is almost certainly capable of writing a better five issue mini-series than Ultimatum. They're not even trying; Valkyrie strolls up to Magneto, says something threatening, then cuts off his arm with her sword. After which, Magneto uses his magnetic powers to take the sword away from her.

[red snow]

Just finished the first hardcover volume of The Walking Dead. It's actually the first thing of Kirkman's I've read that I really enjoyed.

There were some problems with it --Kirkman can't write kids for the life of him-- but the story itself has me hooked. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on the subsequent volumes now.

Next up on the reading list is Frey. I'm not much of a fan of the Buffyverse but this is a different enough take on it to have me intrigued.

Walking dead gets better and better. There is a current lull with the trades but that's because the series underwent a major upheaval and now it's finding its way down a new path. Can't wait for the next trade (well I can so far as I wont by the monthlies).

Fray is actually quite good fun and doesn't require much buffyverse knowledge. If you enjoy it you may as well check out the season 8 comics as they have a cross-over arc between the two slayers (although the frey series was far stronger).

[haLobEnder]

Honestly? I downloaded three of the Soleil books as a try-before-you-buy thing, and discovered that I didn't like them very much. They weren't bad, but they weren't anything like the masterpieces I was expecting. They weren't even particularly good. Competent, yes (although I had the niggling feeling something was lost in translation), but not much more than that.

Art was beautiful in all cases, though.

My own exposure to Soleil's stuff is quite limited. I'd probably pick up an English trade or two if Marvel ever decides to release the stuff that way. (Well so long as it's in standard American comic size. The large European hardcovers are lovely, but they're a bloody pain to fit on a bookshelf :P)

I also freely admit that a lot of my interest/enjoyment of the stuff may come from the fact that I'm nowhere near being fluent in French. It may be that a lot of these books aren't the greatest reads from a literary standpoint, my french is not at a level yet where I'm able to tell.

I do like the fact that European comics (much like manga) spans a wide range of genres. I think the American industry --the top two especially-- could learn a thing or two in that regard.

Fray is actually quite good fun and doesn't require much buffyverse knowledge. If you enjoy it you may as well check out the season 8 comics as they have a cross-over arc between the two slayers (although the frey series was far stronger).

Is season 8 collected in the Buffy Omnibus editions at all or do they collect a previous Buffy series?

My interest in Buffy anything is pretty much non-existent. I have considered picking some of it up for my sister though as she's a huge fan of the show.

[red snow]

Is season 8 collected in the Buffy Omnibus editions at all or do they collect a previous Buffy series?

My interest in Buffy anything is pretty much non-existent. I have considered picking some of it up for my sister though as she's a huge fan of the show.

The season 8 stories are just in regulat trades at the moment, I think. the volume that had the Fray crossover is vol 4http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffy-Vampire-Slayer-Season-Horse/dp/1595823107/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249504159&sr=8-2 . I'm not sure how accessible it is as I've been reading the season 8 comics. See what you think of Fray first.

[Errant Bard]

Honestly? I downloaded three of the Soleil books as a try-before-you-buy thing, and discovered that I didn't like them very much. They weren't bad, but they weren't anything like the masterpieces I was expecting. They weren't even particularly good. Competent, yes (although I had the niggling feeling something was lost in translation), but not much more than that.

Just to know, do you remember the title of these stories? I don't really like soleil these times, they feel too comercial, and a lot of their products even go into the soulless and manga-art style just so they can sell more to the young generation (or so they think, all the BD I read that were like that weren't particularily good).

Most of my BDs seem to come from Dargaud, Casterman, Paquet, Humanoides associés, Delcourt, Vent d'ouest or Dupuis (yeah, just because Gaston and Spirou are bigger than spiderman here).

Admittedly, I got Paradis Perdu from Soleil, but even though it's nice enough it's got this cold, computer-generated feel about the art, and this manga-knockoff feel about the story that in my humble opinion detracts from the overall quality; if you can go past that, it's nice enough, vol3 and 4 are epic but a lot of other BDs produced by soleil are just mediocre, like, say, Sloka, which doesn't even have what makes Paradis Perdu good. This being said, all that Soleil production doesn't hold a candle to stuff like the Nikopol Trilogy, or Blacksad, or Alim le Tanneur, or Naüja, or Pin-up, or Les innomables or Loisel's Peter Pan, or Blueberry, or L'Incal or many many others (fuck, even Achille Talon got way more class despite the comedic aspect and heavily language dependant humour, not mentioning Gaston).

Thinking about it, it would be interesting to see a 'merkin's reaction about Pin-Up, the story basically casting its heroine in all the notorious events of US history since WW2 (yes, she starts as a pin-up drawn on B-52s). I know Dylanfanatic was interested about the Eurocommie view of US, at least. Between this and Vian's J'irai pisser sur vos tombes it could be a good start.

If it feels like a rant, it's alcohol and cold medication induced. (though medecine here is more sensible, and stuff like Nyquil is likely classified as hard drug and forbidden) :leaving: