124 replies to this topic

[dragonfire613]

For my 2 cents... I think it entirely plausible that Coldhands is using Benjen's deceased body, without any knowledge of the person to whom the body originally belonged.  Thus it can both be, and not be, Benjen.  When Bran finally sees his face... "Uncle Benjen!"... "Is that who this body originally belonged to? Small World." replies Coldhands

[the sword in the night]

alguien, on 11 August 2009 - 08:41 AM, said:

Great summary. Thanks Jughead!

A fun chapter.  Some really great lines.  (Once the heart stops the blood congeals) Regarding the identity of Coldhands, I'm still divided between Benjen and Bloodraven.  To me, if Benjen didn't want to scare Bran or give him the wrong impression, then he might keep his identity hidden.   I'd sort of like it to be Bloodraven, but I'm now not so sure.  Perhaps Bloodraven is the last wizard or greenseer.

Either way, it makes complete sense for a brother (former or no) of the Night's Watch to execute the deserters, which I think the dead guys were.  Kind of wicked that he did so a la The Birds.

Coldhands = Benjen
Three eyed crow = Brynden Rivers

[GrandPoobah]

My take on Bloodraven is that the smallfolk saw an unusual looking person and made a monster of him.

He was albino, he had a birthmark. Atop all that, he was a bastard to boot. Hence they made a "dark sorcerer" of him. Doubtless nobles on the other side of the rebellion fence made the most of these stories (and/or were the source of them).

Anyone recall the reactions to Tyrion in King's Landing? Or the reactions to "highborn" bastards?

Edited by GrandPoobah, 02 June 2011 - 12:38 PM.

[Prince of the North]

GrandPoobah, on 02 June 2011 - 12:36 PM, said:

My take on Bloodraven is that the smallfolk saw an unusual looking person and made a monster of him.

He was albino, he had a birthmark. Atop all that, he was a bastard to boot. Hence they made a "dark sorcerer" of him. Doubtless nobles on the other side of the rebellion fence made the most of these stories (and/or were the source of them).

Anyone recall the reactions to Tyrion in King's Landing? Or the reactions to "highborn" bastards?

Yes, your take is interesting and there most likely was a fair bit of prejuduce against Bloodraven for a variety of reasons but...there actually is more to it.

Spoiler

The background info that is filled in about Brynden Rivers in the Dunk & Egg stories strongly "suggests" that he actually was a sorceror.  Especially in the latest Dunk & Egg story - The Mystery Knight which, again, strongly implies that Brynden Rivers used a spell, a glamour, to hide his identity and pretend to be someone else so that he could spy on and foil an attempted coup.

Also, I posted this awhile back and it may give you some food for thought:

Here's a list of disjointed thoughts I have on Coldhands and the Three-Eyed Crow  I'm not sure if I should spoiler it or not so I will to be on the safe side. BEWARE: the following does contain spoilers if you haven't read the notes from Martin's convention readings, etc.

Quote

  

1) I think Coldhands is Benjen Stark who was killed while ranging.
2) I think he was never a wight but was resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow as an ally or assistant in much the same way as Beric Donderrion and Lady Stoneheart were brought back - this explains his autonomy compared to wights.
3) I think the fact that Benjen was dead for awhile in the cold North before being brought back accounts for his black hands (i.e. frostbite would quickly set into the extremities).
4) I think the Three-Eyed Crow is Bryndon Rivers aka Bloodraven who may or may not be "bodiless" now and has survived so long due to being able to warg from creature to creature or maybe even with many creatures at once (may even be warged with Mormont's raven?)
5) I believe the spoiler chapter notes that we've seen concerning Varamyr Six-Skins may lend some support for #4 above.
6) I think the name "Three-Eyed Crow" is a big clue that he is Bloodraven. First, Bloodraven with his one eye warged with a Crow or raven would literally make a three-eyed crow. Or, second, a NW brother or "crow" who had the ability to warg and/or perform sorcery could be thought of as "opening their third eye" and, thus, would be a "three-eyed Crow".
7) I don't think Coldhands controlled the elk and ravens when he rescued Bran and the other kids from the wights. I think it was the Three-Eyed Crow helping them.
8) I don't believe there are different kinds of magic (i.e. fire, blood, shadow, warging, etc.) I believe there is only "magic" that is manifested, or used, in countless different ways. A possible exception to this is the magic of the Old Gods (i.e. warging, green dreams, etc.) It could be that Bloodraven is/was a very unique individual in that he was Valyrian on his father's side and Blood of the First Men on his mother's side so he could both perform sorcery and Old God magic? Hmm...maybe?  Also, if this is the case, what could it mean for Jon who "might" have a similar heritage?  
9) I think Coldhands couldn't pass through the Black Gate because the Wall, or at least the Black Gate, is warded against sorcery in general and not just so-called "Other" magic.


Like I said, highly disjointed, but hopefully some food for thought

So, in a nutshell, I believe Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven IS The Three-Eyed Crow

Edited by Prince of the North, 03 June 2011 - 10:39 AM.

[ELITEFORCE850]

A little off topic from where this discussion is going, but when Bran was in the coma I believe he was told he must fly. Then the Reed boy had a dream about a wolf that flies, now I think the reason Bran has to get to the three eyed corm is to learn to skin change into a dragon. Possibly to retake control of one that Euron The Crows Eye takes control of with the horn, or maybe the horn is to regain control of a dragon from a skin changer who has entered his body. Anyone else have any thoughts on these presumptions? Bran does seem to have the most control over his skin change abilities (i.e. going into ghost along with John) and if an eagle is the hardest to skin change into from the animals mentioned so far, imagine how hard a dragon would be skin change into.

Edited by ELITEFORCE850, 18 June 2011 - 09:55 PM.