[LugaJetBoyGirl]

I said I'd start this thread, but I'm too tired to write a comment yet.

Thoughts? Go!

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

heechy keechy?

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

LugaJetBoyGirl, on Aug 26 2009, 04.23, said:

I said I'd start this thread, but I'm too tired to write a comment yet.

Thoughts? Go!

Do you mean it in a good or in a bad sense? I must admit I have somewhat mixed feelings about this book.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Peadar wrote a complementary review on his livejournal. It sounds interesting.

This post has been edited by Ser Scot A Ellison: 26 August 2009 - 06:56 AM

[Mr. X]

ETA: There are mild spoilers in what's written below.

Max the Mostly Mediocre, on Aug 25 2009, 22.51, said:

heechy keechy?

It's a term that characters use in the book to describe genetically engineered humans, called windups, which have telltale stutter-stop movements 'built' into their makeup.

On the whole, I liked the book a lot. It has some first novel flaws: loose plotlines here and there, undeveloped characters (particularly Anderson, who serves more to move the plot along than as a real human, and Kanya), and some less than sensitive handling of

SPOILER: tWG

Emiko's degradations at the hands of various humans.

I think the worldbuilding is a strength of the book. Bangkok seemed very real to me, and the state of the future Earth a plausible (though depressing) one.

Hock Seng was another highlight for me, as he may not be a particularly likeable character, but he is certainly interesting and believable.

Gibbons was terribly underused.

This post has been edited by Xray the Enforcer: 27 August 2009 - 09:07 AM

[Peadar]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on Aug 26 2009, 12.53, said:

Peadar wrote a complementary review on his livejournal. It sounds interesting.

Yes, I liked it a lot. As X says above, the worldbuilding was top-notch -- believable, stifling and exotic.

Minor, vague spoilers follow here...

SPOILER: tWG

I agree with X's comments on Anderson also. I could never actually understand his motivations. I'm not saying there weren't any in the author's mind, just that, here was a character risking life and limb for what the story seemed to imply were evil ends* with no mention of what the reward would be for him personally. When speaking to others, Anderson seems to imply that if he succeeds in his goals** he will help save the world. But his internal voice doesn't really seem to believe or care very much about the world's future or even his own.

*Yes, I know it's less black and white than that...
**I'm keeping things as vague as possible to avoid spoilers...

This post has been edited by Xray the Enforcer: 27 August 2009 - 09:06 AM

[Xray the Enforcer]

Mr. X and I discussed the book over dinner the other night, and have similar opinions on it. It's a very good debut novel, and I think Bacigalupi has the talent to become a truly top-notch novelist, but there were some flaws. I think the one I'm saddest about is that the story lacks some of the crushing humanity that is so prevalent (and, in fact, sets him apart from most writers) in his work. Actually, I think many of the flaws of the book can be traced to too many POVs (there are only 4, IIRC, but I think one could have been sacrificed to keep things much more focused. /armchair author :P

Also, who else recognized

SPOILER: ngaw

the rambutan from the description alone?

[Peadar]

Xray the Enforcer, on Aug 27 2009, 13.50, said:

Mr. X and I discussed the book over dinner the other night, and have similar opinions on it. It's a very good debut novel, and I think Bacigalupi has the talent to become a truly top-notch novelist, but there were some flaws. I think the one I'm saddest about is that the story lacks some of the crushing humanity that is so prevalent (and, in fact, sets him apart from most writers) in his work. Actually, I think many of the flaws of the book can be traced to too many POVs (there are only 4, IIRC, but I think one could have been sacrificed to keep things much more focused. /armchair author :P

Also, who else recognized

SPOILER: ngaw

the rambutan from the description alone?

I envy those who can discuss such books over their delicious burgers and fries (or whatever ethnic cooking is in the US). I failed to recognise the ngaw, but really wanted to know what it was and to eat one.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Peadar, on Aug 27 2009, 09.18, said:

I failed to recognise the ngaw, but really wanted to know what it was and to eat one.

SPOILER: ngaw

Have you had litchi (lychee)? Because it has a similar taste/texture to that. They're in the market right now -- not sure how much luck you'll have finding 'em in Ireland, but they're all over Chinatown here.

[Mr. X]

Xray the Enforcer, on Aug 27 2009, 08.50, said:

Also, who else recognized

SPOILER: ngaw

the rambutan from the description alone?

I did.

SPOILER: ngaw

according to the great font of knowledge that is Wikipedia, the Thai word for rambutan is ngao, leading to me that Bacigalupi's spelling is an intentional representation of how the Westerner Lake hears the word.

Also, I think it's hilarious that we've discussed plot and character points openly, but are spoiling talk of fruit. It makes me feel like making loud declarations.

ALL TALK OF FRUIT ON THIS BOARD SHOULD NOW BE PLACED BEHIND SPOILER TAGS!

[Xray the Enforcer]

SPOILER: spoiler

I went back and obscured the spoilery items in your post and Peadar's. I AM DRUNK ON MOD POWER!!!! (and beer.)

In any case, I didn't want to ruin the fun for anyone else who might have a knowledge of tropical fruit.

This post has been edited by Xray the Enforcer: 27 August 2009 - 09:13 AM

[Mr. X]

Xray the Enforcer, on Aug 27 2009, 10.11, said:

SPOILER: spoiler

I went back and obscured the spoilery items in your post and Peadar's. I AM DRUNK ON MOD POWER!!!! (and beer.)

SPOILER: spoiler

And now I know that mod power is indeed a fruit. A tasty, tasty fruit, it would seem.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The book is now in my Amazon cart. (A question for everyone who isn't Peadar) How did y'all get ahold of the book before the U.S. release?

[Peadar]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on Aug 27 2009, 15.59, said:

The book is now in my Amazon cart. (A question for everyone who isn't Peadar) How did y'all get ahold of the book before the U.S. release?

I think they got it the same way I did: WorldCon, at the Nightshade table! Hurray! Very appropriate, since "nightshades" are mentioned in the first few pages :)

[Xray the Enforcer]

Ser Scot A Ellison, on Aug 27 2009, 10.59, said:

The book is now in my Amazon cart. (A question for everyone who isn't Peadar) How did y'all get ahold of the book before the U.S. release?

Bought it from the nice people at Night Shade Books at WorldCon (it was the second thing I did at the Con, the first being I picked up my badge), and then turned immediately to our left and heaped praise on the author himself before he signed it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I did wander through the vendors. That'll teach me to wander alone. I need a guide next time.

:(

[Night Watchman]

I want this book.

This is also, possibly the first time in my board history that I haven't un-highlighted the spoilers out of curiosity.

[LianeM]

Night Watchman, on Aug 27 2009, 14.28, said:

I want this book.

This is also, possibly the first time in my board history that I haven't un-highlighted the spoilers out of curiosity.

Me too, to both. I loved Pump Six and am really looking forward to seeing what Bacigalupi does in long-form fiction. Publishers Weekly called it one of the finest SF novels of the year, and I have no doubt that's true. Can't wait to read it.

[LugaJetBoyGirl]

I agree that the world-building was really very interesting. Bacigalupi's future felt very real; in part, this is because he went all Science-fictiony, of course, and took issues that are of great concern to us now and used them to shape a possible future - things like ocean levels, bio-engineered foods, levees, pandemic scares, energy consumption, the global economy. Instead of a Leibowitz-ian future created by nuclear weapons, Bacigalupi sees one that is shaped by food corporations and viruses. It felt very 'now' for that reason.

I liked that his world had a series of stereo-typed boogey-men, like the yellow cards, the windups, the white shirts and, most terrifying of all, the calorie men (eep!). Sinister indeed and successful at adding depth to his universe. The science-speak also, I thought, helped texture B.'s world, since it was very 'techno-babble' in the sense that if you say H1N1 to most everyone these days, they know what you mean, but H1N1 would be entirely incomprehensible to someone without access to the media. On the other hand, I didn't understand half of the sciency-techno-talk, which was fine, since half the time I don't understand it in the news anyway. Just like real life!

I also liked that the setting was not in the United States. I may be a bit biased because my sister-in-law is Thai, but I loved that everything took place in Bangkok.

And I loved the ending. Not the bit about

SPOILER: the book's ending

Emiko and Gibbson (I thought the windup's sudden desire to reproduce came out of nowhere). But I liked Kanya's role at the end. When she was all "follow my lead" in the seed bank, I was all "Holy fucking shit! Yes!" Her plan for Bangkok was killer and felt, for me at least, to be one of those moments when you are totally awesomed (as per Brady). Kanya made me want to cheer since she totally embraced the craziness of the Tiger of Bangkok, who was a character that I loved since he was all heroic and irreverant and shit.

I think the other comments about characters such as Lake were pretty spot on. One problem I did have was with the dialogue, in that everyone talked the same and used the same sort of language. The dialogue felt too much like the narrator to me. But it was only a minor stylistic issue and in general I really enjoyed the book. I've never read Bacigalupi's other work, but I will definitely do so now.

And I too got my copy at WorldCon. That dude from Nightshade always manages to sell me shit whether I have money or not, and this time was no exception. The cover was so pretty anyways that I wanted it immediately.

[mormont]

Finished this last night, and I really loved it. I take on board the comments about characters, and would add that

SPOILER: Windup Girl

Hock Seng, although he appears to be the same character from 'Yellow Card Man', to me came over rather differently here. Had it not been for the mentions of his past I wouldn't necessarily have connected him to that person.

As an aside, the reference to Lalji was a nice connection too.

That said, I did sympathise with the characters, including him. He wasn't an easy character to like, and yet I found myself wanting him to get through. In fact I had that delicious experience of often seeing two characters whose aims were in conflict, and wanting them both to succeed, but knowing they couldn't.

I'm not sure I agree completely with

SPOILER: Windup Girl

The comments about Anderson Lake. I think he was a very important character, in that he is our first and only glimpse inside the big bogeyman of the setting, the calorie companies. I understood that his motivation was mainly greed and ambition, and that the stuff about saving the world was a justification for him. This is probably best illustrated when he introduces the royal protector dude to Emiko: that is a very selfish act, showing that for all his desire for Emiko he's still happy to use her as a tool. As he does everyone, in fact. The rest of his behaviour to Emiko is slightly cliched, the jaded veteran suddenly moved by innocence to do things he knows are foolish - a cliche revisited with Hock Seng and Mai, of course.

All that said, I got no sense of sadness when he died, as I did with Jaidee.

The setting is the main strength, I agree. It works, it's fascinating and it's much more deeply and richly portrayed than was possible within the short stories. The plot was also developed well. I thought he showed he could handle many different types of scene deftly, again something that is tricky in a short story. I especially liked

SPOILER: Windup Girl

the battle scenes near the end, where I really felt the fear and chaos. The body parts strewn around were probably unnecessary, but the image of the coal-fired tanks and the battle megodonts trampling their way through the crowds brought across the feelings of helplessness well.

About the ending: I don't agree that came out of nowhere, exactly. Earlier in the book, there are a couple of times when

SPOILER: Windup Girl

Emiko compares New People to cheshires, and suggests that if the New People had come first then they would likely have been allowed to breed. It's clearly something that she has thought about, at least in the context of the future of her species and as something that has been taken from her.

For a first novel, it's incredibly good. Heck, by any standards it's incredibly good. One of the best books I've read this year, on the level of Dan Abraham for sure.