TGS Chapter 1 available

[lordofavalon]

honestly my favorie part was having Rand bitch about Egwene. can't wait to find out what brought that about. i guess BS has been reading Cannoli's posts on wotmania

[kuenjato]

I'm not exactly sure and can't quite put my finger on it, but it just read that way to me. The opening sounded a little clunky to me, and as others have said, had some interesting word choices.

Passages like this, I guess:

“You’re thinking about her again,†Min said, almost accusatory.

He often wondered if there was such a thing as a bond that worked only one way. He would have given much for one of those.

I dunno. I guess that was the wrong term to use. Maybe I've just outgrown this series and am finally maturing. Fat chance of that ever happening.

You're not alone. The beginning is very clunky and, as others have noted, reads almost like fan-fiction - it certainly lacks RJ's tone, though the usual overabundance of modifiers and general description is fairly spot on. I was rather turned off by the time I finished the first page (!) - though it does improve as if goes, and the last few lines sound like something culled directly from RJ's notes and/or a "finished" draft. That said, I think I've long since outgrown WoT (perhaps even back from the time of PoD) and will probably pick these up at a library once all three are out.

[mashiara]

It wasn't what I expected, especially at the beginning. Hopefully it gets better along the way.

[fionwe1987]

honestly my favorie part was having Rand bitch about Egwene. can't wait to find out what brought that about. i guess BS has been reading Cannoli's posts on wotmania

That's Rand's madness talking. Do remember that a few days ago, he sent Merise and Jahar to give away 47 Asha'man to Egwene (itself a crazy decision), in the hopes that she wouldn't be pissed about Asha'man bonding Aes Sedai.

Suddenly, Egwene is now out to get him? It makes no sense, and there can be nothing in the prologue to justify it since I'll chop my hands off if Egwene escaped from Tar Valon in that chapter and did something to piss off Rand.

I'm still wondering what "notches" Egwene has in her belt. She has hardly contacted Rand, and the only success she had (re: the Asha'man bonding) was something she never demanded and Rand gave away himself.

My guess is that LTT's anger at Latra Pose Decume has entered Rand, and just like he found himself suddenly being able to paint, he is now finding himself mistrusting the woman who he sees as the leader of the female Aes Sedai. Maybe that mistrust has made him regret his previous choice of giving her 47 Asha'man.

[dalThor]

To expect Sanderson to write in the same way that Jordan did is unrealistic. That's why the opening paragraphs were clunky. I'm fine with that.

There was too much description of clothing. There was braid tugging. Rand was still an irrational fool. Very Robert Jordanish.

That being said, we DO have to expect Sanderson's attempts to give the books the same feel as if they had been penned by Jordan.

Somebody should tell Sanderson about that "show, don't tell" rule. This is genre fiction at its worst.

I think one of the most frequent criticisms of Jordan was that he showed us too much - at least as it pertains to the clothing, tsking, and braid pulling. Sanderson has to try to channel Jordan in a bid to retain the feel of Jordan's work. (ETA: Which is why we'll still face the embroidery, Ran's inability to understand women, and all the rest.) I think that in the latter half of the chapter Sanderson gives us the information we need without being quite as verbose as Jordan might have been. It moved along quickly (which Jordan's first chapters often did) and provided a great deal of information. It seemed to lack a bit of depth yet, it sets up what's going to follow.

All in all, for me, it's a too soon to tell kind of thing. I think/hope the following chapters will be more prose-like and be less of a set-up/commentary.

[Larry.]

(ETA: Which is why we'll still face the embroidery, Ran's inability to understand women, and all the rest.)

I wonder what Linda will have to say about all this ;)

[Gerold Hightower]

People have criticized Jordan for many things. Some of the criticism was justified, some was just lack of understanding. For all his flaws Jordan had a knack for subtly planting info and leaving it to the reader to connect the dots. It takes a while for the reader to realize that Rand is indeed descending into madness, e.g. When some readers then blame Jordan for Rand being annoying and irrational, the fault isn't Jordan's. Rand isn't supposed to be perfectly rational.

Sanderson gives us passages like this instead:

The wind twisted around the magniï¬cent Tower, brushing perfectly

ï¬tted stones and flapping majestic banners. The structure was

somehow both graceful and powerful at the same time; a metaphor,

perhaps, for those who had inhabited it for over three thousand years.

That's as blunt an example of telling instead of showing as I have ever seen. Jordan's version would probably have been much longer but at least it wouldn't read like fan fiction.

[fionwe1987]

Sanderson gives us passages like this instead:

That's as blunt an example of telling instead of showing as I have ever seen. Jordan's version would probably have been much longer but at least it wouldn't read like fan fiction.

I don't see why every clunky bit of writing from Sanderson has to be labeled fan fiction! I'm sure there might be fan's who might have done better descriptions. Doesn't mean they'd give us a readable story.

The majestic, alabaster Tower that looked beautiful from outside but was rotten from inside was too much, yes. But if you give the man a chance, he improves just a few paragraphs down!

[Ran]

Dylan,

Linda says she'll sign off on that. :P

[dalThor]

I wonder what Linda will have to say about all this ;)

My first thought was, oops. :leaving:

Dylan,

Linda says she'll sign off on that. :P

But then I asked myself whether she might not actually agree. :)

Lord knows mashiara would concur as it pertains to me.

[Poobah]

Quit bitching; more happened in this one chapter than CoT and half of KoD together. In that way it was better than anything Jordan could've written, you and I both know that it would have taken him about 10 times the word length to get to the same end, and thrown in a load of braid-tugging + crossing arms beneath breasts. It all worked and was readable, other than that, well, I stopped caring overly ages ago and at this point I just want to know what happens. If Sanderson is able to be more succinct than Jordan then more power to him.

I agree, too that the opening is really not for you. Only a very small percentage of the readership of WoT are fanatical enough that they either remember every single detail by now or are prepared to re-read 11 books or that fucking circus. Sanderson managed to recap pretty much the whole world situation in a couple of paragraphs.

[cseresz]

Hopefully it gets better along the way.

Why? Before we got this chapter there was a long process:

(based on BS's blog)

writing the book (incl. chapter one)

re-writing the book (incl. chapter one)

editing by Harriet

re-writing the book (incl. chapter one)

editing by Harriet

re-writing/tweaking the book (incl. chapter one)

editing with Harriet

re-writing/tweaking the book (incl. chapter one)

After these steps we got a horrible chapter and you believe the book will be better chapters after chapters? (By the way, I don't understand this "BS's writing gets better and better" thing. Is there a law or something?)

[kuenjato]

Why? Before we got this chapter there was a long process:

(based on BS's blog)

writing the book (incl. chapter one)

re-writing the book (incl. chapter one)

editing by Harriet

re-writing the book (incl. chapter one)

editing by Harriet

re-writing/tweaking the book (incl. chapter one)

editing with Harriet

re-writing/tweaking the book (incl. chapter one)

After these steps we got a horrible chapter and you believe the book will be better chapters after chapters? (By the way, I don't understand this "BS's writing gets better and better" thing. Is there a law or something?)

No kidding. That paragraph that Hightower cited above is a perfect example. I'd expect that on a first draft, not a finished product.

That said, the 'tears of steel' line at the end has nice rhythm and is something I'd expect from RJ. 'Course, I'm also in Poobah's camp, by this point... after books 8-11, I just want to know what happens/what would have happened, with a minimum of braid tugging and sniffing.

[fionwe1987]

Quit bitching; more happened in this one chapter than CoT and half of KoD together. In that way it was better than anything Jordan could've written, you and I both know that it would have taken him about 10 times the word length to get to the same end, and thrown in a load of braid-tugging + crossing arms beneath breasts. It all worked and was readable, other than that, well, I stopped caring overly ages ago and at this point I just want to know what happens. If Sanderson is able to be more succinct than Jordan then more power to him.

I agree, too that the opening is really not for you. Only a very small percentage of the readership of WoT are fanatical enough that they either remember every single detail by now or are prepared to re-read 11 books or that fucking circus. Sanderson managed to recap pretty much the whole world situation in a couple of paragraphs.

Oh how nice of you to ignore that fact that many people actually liked the way RJ wrote! Thank you very much for labeling our discontent as bitching, while omitting to note that that's exactly what you were doing while RJ was the one writing the books. After all, only crazy fans could know that Egwene was the Rebel Amyrlin Seat, that Tarmon Gai'don was the Last Battle and that Cuendiallar was also called Heartstone.

We humbly apologize for thinking that we also have a right to not like someone's writing. Only RJ's writing can be criticized! Bah!

[MaesterLuwin]

There's always been a number of people who claim not to care about the series anymore, but nevertheless carry awfully strong opinions about it...

:)

[Daena the Defiant]

[...] by this point... after books 8-11, I just want to know what happens/what would have happened, with a minimum of braid tugging and sniffing.

Hear, hear :)

[Larry.]

Dylan,

Linda says she'll sign off on that. :P

Ha! :P My S.O. would say much the same thing. Funny how women are so alike in that one regard, huh? ;) Maybe RJ was onto something after all?

[Poobah]

Oh how nice of you to ignore that fact that many people actually liked the way RJ wrote! Thank you very much for labeling our discontent as bitching, while omitting to note that that's exactly what you were doing while RJ was the one writing the books. After all, only crazy fans could know that Egwene was the Rebel Amyrlin Seat, that Tarmon Gai'don was the Last Battle and that Cuendiallar was also called Heartstone.

We humbly apologize for thinking that we also have a right to not like someone's writing. Only RJ's writing can be criticized! Bah!

Thank you very much, a pleasure and accepted :P

[fionwe1987]

Thank you very much, a pleasure and accepted :P

But I said Bah! BAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! :smileysex:

[Humble Asskicker]

It started out rough, with some *very* awkward prose, but it did improve when Rand came on scene.

Overall, it was more or less what I expected. More focused, more succinct, and all those annoying Jordanisms downplayed. It was too over-indulgent with the descriptions, but I think people are right in calling that Sanderson channeling Jordan.

Sometimes the characters feel a little off, but I'm not sure if that's my awareness that this is penned by a different author, or if it is a matter of disparate phrasing and such between Sanderson and Jordan. No matter; it's close enough that I would raise that question, and it's not far enough to bother me.

In fact, just noting that there was a whole dialog in which people actually behaved as adults makes it a fair trade off in my mind.

But we'll have to see. I'm encouraged enough that I don't feel reservation at buying the book when it comes out.

My guess is that LTT's anger at Latra Pose Decume has entered Rand, and just like he found himself suddenly being able to paint, he is now finding himself mistrusting the woman who he sees as the leader of the female Aes Sedai. Maybe that mistrust has made him regret his previous choice of giving her 47 Asha'man.

This would have to be it. His grumbling seemed too much a call back to The Great Hunt Rand rather than latter day Rand. Egwene knows Rand is the Dragon Reborn, and knows that he needs to fulfill his purpose to save the world. Rand knows Egwene knows this. As Amyrlin, if Egwene was going to gentle Rand, it would be after he defeated the Dark One. Since latter day Rand is convinced he'll die at Shayol Ghul anyway, he never muses about being gentled anymore.

But I suppose madness can account for this unreasoned accusation.

Edit: Although I think part it had to do with his arrogance and supreme self-confidence. After all, who can touch him? He has his legion of Asha'man and Aes Sedai pets.

But maybe nearly coming undone by Semirhage, despite all of that power, has roused his cautions anew.

more happened in this one chapter than CoT and half of KoD together.

I don't think I've seen hyperbole of such magnitude since a certain Mission Accomplished speech.

SPOILER: TGS

This was a recap chapter. What happened? We are told that Semirhage won't cooperate. Yes, what a surprise. I think most people could have guessed at that from her dialog when she was captured.

We aren't actually shown a scene with Semirhage, which I would call something happening (something really cool and long awaited, too). What we get is a setup.

The biggest thing that happens is that Lews Therin hints at the failure to seal Shayol Ghul. Just a hint, too.

The rest was recap.

I'll grant you, that's about as much as we get in the whole of CoT, but let's not take our bitching too far; let's try to be a little honest here. Things did happen in KoD. Quite a bit happened, for a WoT book.

This book will be a little shorter than KoD, and it will have to have a lot more happen if Sanderson wants to do this in three books. But it won't be because of this chapter, which spent its time almost exclusively on descriptions and recapping.