So I just read the first Malazan book
Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:33 PM
Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:31 AM
And really, the timeline is like the perfect example of Erikson's main problem: Lack of Discipline
He needs to learn the wonders of planning, editing, rewriting, etc.
His books, more and more, read like he had a good initial outline and idea and then while writing he suddenly had this "really cool idea" or he'd just read this "really interesting book" or whatever and he's decided to shove it straight down the story's throat and to hell with whether it fits or not. And then never rewrite anything to make the book more clear or coherent. Oh, and also never explain ANYTHING.
Toll The Hounds is like the perfect shit storm of the problems with his writing. A fucking turd of a book that fucks up established story left and right, all to shoe-horn in a poorly done theme of "family" and to showcase an annoying writing style he so loves. Oh, and "deep" philosophy to. Gotta cram that shit in there as well.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 08:21 AM
I mean, do a quick count on your fingers roughly how long Karsa Orlong has been away from Teblor lands, and then ask yourself how the spawn of his rapes back in Teblor lands have managed to age to about 15 years.
And Toll the Hounds is really the worst book in the series. 1200 pages of incoherent rambling.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 08:34 AM
Posted 22 October 2009 - 08:37 AM
No rebuttals on the timeline though. I think the only way to make it remotely coherent is to add Warren-related time anomalies (possibly caused by gods) here and there.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 08:55 AM
Posted 22 October 2009 - 09:01 AM
You're right I shouldn't have gone there, considering what board I'm on. I'm definitely not going to convince anyone here.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 09:21 AM
It's pretty clear that Erikson in the end works for himself, not unlike Martin. The timeline issues are simply elements that he doesn't think are important.
They are important for me, for you. He simply doesn't think that those few inconsistencies are worth all the added work that would be required to nail them down and that they ruin the book. He also has signed a contract and committed to deliver exactly what he thought he could deliver and wanted to deliver.
You decide if those details affect the quality of the series as a whole in a relevant way.
Imho, I think Erikson pace of writing and discipline is what maintained the quality. Keeping himself extremely focused on his destination and writing intent.
He is one of the most "deliberate" of writers I know. And I think this is quite a contrast on what most consider "ramblings". I think Erikson always have a point and strong control.
Edited by Gormenghast, 22 October 2009 - 09:24 AM.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:34 AM
I, for one, understand.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:53 AM
By Martin way of doing things the Malazan series would have taken 50 years. So it's really not an alternative to consider. It already took Erikson more than 10 years. That's as far you can push an ambitious project.
So what I say, again, is that Erikson's way of doing this was the only possible way to do it. Flaws and all.
This Martin's way versus Erikson's way is not "quality versus quantity".
It's: "things getting done versus things not getting done"
At the end of the day you have to decide if you want to bring things back to the ground and in the realm of what's plausible. Erikson knew what he wanted to write and did in the exact way he chose and planned to do it. The scope of his series is something that would have swallowed whole any kind of writer. He kept going on and delivered the goods.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:55 AM
Also yeah Karsa's
And another thing, someone dies, their soul goes to Hood's Warren, but their souls can escape Hood's Warren and re-enter the real world, like that one dragon.
WHERE IS THE CONSERVATION OF MASS IN THIS? That soul-body suddenly just became that dragon's real body, because afaik, that dragon died in Starvald or in the Real world, and his body is still rotting there, so, it's like, unlimited matter creation.
Also, what's with Mother Dark, why'd she leave the Andii?
Edited by Jurble, 22 October 2009 - 11:00 AM.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:07 AM
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:10 AM
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:35 AM
That's a very simplistic way of putting it, but you know that.
Edited by Relic, 22 October 2009 - 11:35 AM.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:38 AM
If it was, my statement is a fair description of the issue.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:39 AM
See: Mael, Osserc, Draconus.
I think Mael became free because of the new worship that came into being because he would become free. (Yes, it's a time paradox!)
I think RotG was the first book in which we saw humans using Elder Light and Dark (something that was supposed to be impossible) because the priesthood with those abilities was propagating backward in time from the de-swording of Osserc and the freeing of Draconus.
If you become a god, you come with a ready-made religion.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:40 AM
Anyways, I'm really digging Malazan. I've actually been reading a lot less fiction (all genres, including mainstream lit) lately, but despite that Erikson and Martin are two I'll know I'll continue to keep an eye on no matter how long my burnout lasts.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:43 AM
I, for one, have no issues with GRRM watching football. What i do find troubling is that he's too busy to write cuz he's focused on all the hundreds of little side projects(read, $$$$$) that sprung out of the popularity of aSoIaF. A popularity that we, his long time fans, in some ways helped create.
He can do whatever he wants. I simply don't care about his series anymore and i don't think he's all that disciplined of a writer. But who cares what i think....
Posted 22 October 2009 - 12:06 PM
At least someone agrees with my assessment of TTH. I got massacred for saying similar things on the Malazan forum. Plus it is realllllllllly boring.
Edit: Reading other posts some of you are discussing how Erikson gets more done, which is obvious, but he could have gotten a lot more done by not writing 600 worthless pages in TTH.
Edited by wolverine, 22 October 2009 - 12:30 PM.
Posted 22 October 2009 - 01:50 PM