117 replies to this topic

[Yagathai]

Ser Renasko, on Nov 5 2009, 11.09, said:

There's a lot of love for both Kemp and Salvatore. I think your comments are off the mark, Stego. Kemp should be quite proud already.

Plenty of people eat at McDonald's and enjoy it, but that doesn't mean that a fry cook goes home with a spring in his step.

[Stego]

Shut up, Yags! You don't know shit about the Hugos or Worldcon!

[pat5150]

K. J. Parker is a woman. . .

Patrick

[Myrddin]

pat5150, on Nov 5 2009, 12.27, said:

K. J. Parker is a woman. . .

Patrick

R.A. Saltavore = Ruth Anne Salavatore???  :stunned:

Boggles the mind...

[kcf]

pat5150, on Nov 5 2009, 12.27, said:

K. J. Parker is a woman. . .

Patrick

Do you know this for certain? Are you one of the few who know the identity behind the pen name?

This is a very debated topic and most seem to believe that KJ Parker is most likely male. But I've not seen anyone who's confirmed the true identity, and I've seen people say they are contractually obligated not to reveal the name.

Here's one quote from someone who knows the actual name:

Quote

There is a friend of ours (through a very long story) who is currently publishing books under the pseudonym K.J. Parker. I've heard rumors of a publisher dispute but can't speak to that. However, the K.J. Parker books are so substantially different from the books published under this author's real name that I can see somebody getting outright angry if they'd picked it up and expected what they get with one of the RL books. Two different genres, even— with the Parker books being substantially nastier. (I rather like them, myself.)

[Relic]

Stego, on Nov 5 2009, 12.58, said:

Sorry, I can't say. But it's fascinating.

wtf? why? why even bring it up?

i know the meaning of life but im NOT telling YOU stego. so fuckin there.

Edited by Relic, 05 November 2009 - 02:51 PM.

[Werthead]

kcf, on Nov 5 2009, 19.47, said:

Do you know this for certain? Are you one of the few who know the identity behind the pen name?

This is a very debated topic and most seem to believe that KJ Parker is most likely male. But I've not seen anyone who's confirmed the true identity, and I've seen people say they are contractually obligated not to reveal the name.

Here's one quote from someone who knows the actual name:

One of the theories I'd heard is that KJ Parker is indeed a male and if they'd chosen a male pen-name it would probably have come out by now. However, given that Parker is a name oft-mentioned in 'good female fantasy author' threads, it may well be that it coming out that Parker is actually a man would be rather annoying and offensive to some people, an example of real-life sock-puppeting.

I suspect she is a she, however, just from that interview where Parker talked about not playing with dolls and going against her peers by being a tomboy. Seems a bit of trouble for a writer to go through.

The different genre thing is interesting. If she is also, say, a romance novelist or something down those lines I can see why they might want to keep the connection totally separate.

[RaceBannon42]

Relic, on Nov 5 2009, 13.51, said:

wtf? why? why even bring it up?

i know the meaning of life but im NOT telling YOU stego. so fuckin there.

Its 42.

[Nearly Headless Ned]

This KJ Parker identity thingymebobs is rather good fun. I love a good mystery!

As a matter of interest dose anyone know how long it took before Richard Bachman's true identity was known? Or was that a farce from the get go?

[Myshkin]

Krafus, on Nov 5 2009, 06.51, said:

Are you implying that shared-world fiction is inferior to original fiction? I'll be the first to admit that a lot of shared-world fantasy novels, especially in the Dragonlance line, are crap, but the same applies to a lot of original fantasy fiction. And I know I'd rather read R.A. Salvatore's latest Drizzt book than Terry Goodkind's latest novel.

Are you implying that authors who write strictly in shared-world settings get as much respect in general as authors who create their own worlds?  Because they don't.  It has nothing to do with talent or quality; it is a matter of perception.  Furthermore I imagine you'd feel much more pride in a work of your own creation then you would in a work that is simply an installment in someone else's creation.

[Zach H]

Salvatore should just come clean with the pseudonym.  Even though I no longer read his stuff, I still have a ton of respect for the man and would definitely give one of these so called "respectable" works of his a shot.  I imagine I'm not the only one.

[Krafus]

Myshkin, on Nov 6 2009, 19.50, said:

Are you implying that authors who write strictly in shared-world settings get as much respect in general as authors who create their own worlds?  Because they don't.  It has nothing to do with talent or quality; it is a matter of perception.

Quite true, but while I expect this sort of narrow-minded perception from people who know nothing or next to nothing about fantasy, I hope for better coming from fantasy readers. Considering how much fantasy is unfairly and haughtily looked down upon by the general public, one would think that it would make fantasy readers as a whole band up in its defence. Instead, it seems some fantasy readers prefer to ape fantasy's critics and haughtily look down upon specific subgenres of fantasy.

This doesn't mean that I believe fantasy readers should speak positively of and promote every work of fantasy, mind you. There's a lot of crap in the fantasy genre, as in every other genre, and I can't fault anyone for bashing Terry Goodkind. But while I tend to avoid young adult fantasy because I've had an overdose of teenage protagonists and coming-of-age stories, that doesn't mean I believe YA fantasy to be inherently inferior to a subgenre I like more, like epic fantasy. The "ghetto" of shared-world fantasy only exists because some people want it to exist.

Quote

Furthermore I imagine you'd feel much more pride in a work of your own creation then you would in a work that is simply an installment in someone else's creation.

This is also true, but as I paraphrased Littlefinger earlier, one cannot eat pride. I'm sure all writers would prefer their original works to be hugely popular bestsellers and critical darlings. But if it turns out that it's their shared-world books that pay the bills and then some while their own books have dismal sales, however critically acclaimed they might be, I bet most writers will be willing to swallow their pride and keep on writing shared-world novels.

Edited by Krafus, 07 November 2009 - 09:35 AM.

[WhiteHaven]

I read Salvatore, when I was younger, I thought that he had great ideas, concerning friendship. And yes, I would read his books again, if I had the time for it.

I never heard of Paul Kemp before, nevertheless I am curious what he is going to write next. I believe that it is not easy to write a novel in your own world, after writing so many in a shared-one.

[Werthead]

Krafus, on Nov 7 2009, 14.32, said:

This is also true, but as I paraphrased Littlefinger earlier, one cannot eat pride. I'm sure all writers would prefer their original works to be hugely popular bestsellers and critical darlings. But if it turns out that it's their shared-world books that pay the bills and then some while their own books have dismal sales, however critically acclaimed they might be, I bet most writers will be willing to swallow their pride and keep on writing shared-world novels.

Indeed. I note Tobias Buckell had no problem agreeing to write a Halo novel (which I have sitting right here, actually, thanks to Tor UK), Jeff VanderMeer a Predator one or Matt Stover several Star Wars novels. I'd never heard of Greg Keyes prior to him writing Babylon 5 and Star Wars books and he went on to write some good original books (and also some pretty crap ones, but there you go).

Much bigger names also have no problem doing it. Greg Bear recently wrote a Star Wars novel, whilst Andre Norton was convinced by Gary Gygax to write the first-ever D&D tie-in novel back in the 1970s.

Until recently Dan Abnett's novels were exclusively in the Warhammer multiverse and he was quite well-regarded, although there may be some crossover from his comics work. Lynn Abbey also seems quite well-regarded, although she co-created her setting (Thieves' World), which is maybe a different situation.

[Krafus]

Good list, Wert. And let's not forget Timothy Zahn, who I believe is better known for his Star Wars books, and especially the Thrawn Trilogy, than for the rest of his work, which includes a Hugo Award-winning novella called Cascade Point.

[Myshkin]

Werthead, on Nov 7 2009, 11.35, said:

Indeed. I note Tobias Buckell had no problem agreeing to write a Halo novel (which I have sitting right here, actually, thanks to Tor UK), Jeff VanderMeer a Predator one or Matt Stover several Star Wars novels. I'd never heard of Greg Keyes prior to him writing Babylon 5 and Star Wars books and he went on to write some good original books (and also some pretty crap ones, but there you go).

Much bigger names also have no problem doing it. Greg Bear recently wrote a Star Wars novel, whilst Andre Norton was convinced by Gary Gygax to write the first-ever D&D tie-in novel back in the 1970s.

Until recently Dan Abnett's novels were exclusively in the Warhammer multiverse and he was quite well-regarded, although there may be some crossover from his comics work.

I never said that writers should be ashamed of writing in a shared world; I said that I imagine an author would feel prouder of a completely original novel.  If you asked VanderMeer which of his novels he's proudest of do you think his answer would be City of Saints and Madmen, or Predator: South China Sea?  If you asked Matt Stover, how likely do you think it would be that his answer would be Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor instead of Hereos Die?

Werthead, on Nov 7 2009, 11.35, said:

Lynn Abbey also seems quite well-regarded, although she co-created her setting (Thieves' World), which is maybe a different situation.

I view shared world anthologies like Theives' World a little differently.

[Werthead]

Myshkin, on Nov 8 2009, 00.16, said:

If you asked Matt Stover, how likely do you think it would be that his answer would be Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor instead of Hereos Die?

If you substituted Traitor or the Episode III adaptation (which seems to be universally regarded as better than the movie, although this is not exactly hard) then he'd, erm, probably still say Heroes Die, but he might pause for a second or two beforehand.

An interesting point to this is that there is a difference between Star Wars, where you are using mostly other people's characters (with some exceptions like Karen Traviss' books or Michael Stackpole's X-Wing books, featuring mostly his own cast), whilst Dan Abnett's Warhammer books or Paul Kemp's Erevis Cale stories feature their own stories, characters and in some cases backgrounds, with just some references to the wider shared setting here and there. In those cases the setting may not be tangential to initially attracting people to pick up the books (although people now buy Abnett for his name first and Warhammer second, as the significant disparity between his sales and those of the other authors in the line shows), but it may as well be to the story itself.

Or to put it another way, there's not going to be a huge difference to an unsuspecting reader to reading a novel about Erevis Cale, master thief of the city of Selgaunt, servant of the dark god Mask in the Forgotten Realms, or about Erevis Cale, master thief of the town of Kerfibble, servant of the dark god Bewelzedop, in a setting of Kemp's own devising. In this case it barely even deserves the title 'tie-in' fiction, as there isn't anything for it to tie into. In fact, it was Kemp's books which fleshed out the country of Sembia anyway, which beforehand had been pretty much left blank on maps of the Realms for DMs to develop as they saw fit.

Edited by Werthead, 07 November 2009 - 07:40 PM.

[Zach H]

So, anybody crack the Salvatore pseudonym yet?

Send me a smoke signal if you do.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Werthead, on Nov 7 2009, 17.38, said:

Or to put it another way, there's not going to be a huge difference to an unsuspecting reader to reading a novel about Erevis Cale, master thief of the city of Selgaunt, servant of the dark god Mask in the Forgotten Realms, or about Erevis Cale, master thief of the town of Kerfibble, servant of the dark god Bewelzedop, in a setting of Kemp's own devising. In this case it barely even deserves the title 'tie-in' fiction, as there isn't anything for it to tie into. In fact, it was Kemp's books which fleshed out the country of Sembia anyway, which beforehand had been pretty much left blank on maps of the Realms for DMs to develop as they saw fit.

I'm not sure this is correct, as the Cale trilogy spun out of a series of seven novels set in Selgaunt, only one of which was penned by Kemp.

[Werthead]

Max the Mostly Mediocre, on Nov 8 2009, 01.34, said:

I'm not sure this is correct, as the Cale trilogy spun out of a series of seven novels set in Selgaunt, only one of which was penned by Kemp.

Oh yeah, that thing. Okay, but prior to that series, in which Kemp had a hand, virtually nothing was known about Sembia.

My point, that zero foreknowledge of the Forgotten Realms setting is required to read the Cale books and thus the setting being a shared world or something totally of the writer's devising is somewhat irrelevant, I think is still valid. The same with Abnett's Warhammer books. The same is less true of things like Star Wars books focusing on the movie characters, as in most cases you really need foreknowledge of events in the films and some of the other books to enjoy them properly.