[serMountainGoat]

This thread is for the discussion of an idea proposed in my Ireland 2009 BWB meet up report which is now available on my Worldcon and BWB meet up Reports site.

There is also a Google Wave discussion thread for this subject which can be reached from the above linked site.

Quoting directly from the report, here is the idea:


I am convinced that HBO are going to greenlight the show and put it into full production in 2010. The amount of effort that’s gone into it, the acting and production talent they’ve assembled and the good reports we are hearing just all add up to something positive that is going to happen in my opinion. In which case George will be back in Ireland next year for the episode he will be writing and who knows he might visit the set a couple of times as well to keep an eye on things – and that means there will almost certainly be another BWB meet up in Belfast next year, and who knows perhaps even on an annual basis.

There has already been discussion about the possibility of meeting up again next year, maybe getting the chance to meet more of the cast. Perhaps we could time this for the end of their filming schedule so it doubles as a wrap party of sorts? Lots of ideas, lots of possibilities. But let me throw out another proposal for discussion, something that could be huge, something that was kicked around a little at Worldcon earlier this year. What if the Brotherhood Without Banners were to organise our very own fan convention for ‘Game of Thrones’ and we could call it *drum roll and fanfare please* – gotcon?

gotcon?

Just try to imagine how awesome it would be to run our own fan convention. George would of course be our ‘Guest of Honour in Perpetuity’ with the cast and crew of the show as Special Guests with perhaps a different one as ‘Master of Ceremonies’ each year. Just think of the kind of panels and events we could put together. It would be like the awesomeness of the legendary BWB parties multiplied up to the size of an entire Convention.

At Worldcon earlier this year a few boarders including Lugajetboygirl, Ser Scot E. Ellison and Ghost of Nymeria spoke about the potential of getting involved with the organising and running of Worldcon and how with a bit of organisation and effort the BWB could really be a force to be reckoned with in fan conventions. See my forthcoming Worldcon report for more details on this subject. Something we heard is that the best way to organise and run your own Worldcon is to start up your own fan convention and then make a bid to host a Worldcon.

So what could be a better way to take our first steps towards that than to start a convention for the HBO produced ‘Game of Thrones’ which would celebrate all things GRRM and ASOIAF related at the same time?

Belfast would be the natural home for such a convention since this is where the majority of the filming for the show would be done meaning and that we can keep down the costs of getting our guests to the event since most of them will already be there. There are a few potential venues in the Belfast Waterfront, Spires Conference Centre or The Kings Hall.

Of course such an event would need the backing of HBO, the directors David and Dan, George and Parris, and we would need the goodwill of the cast members we ask to attend as guests – but I would like to think the way we conducted ourselves at the signing and Moot in Belfast this year will help in that regard. I think we would also need the blessing of the other Irish science fiction conventions, Octocon and especially Mecon which is held in Belfast, and avoid clashing with their events since we would technically be moving in on their turf.

The date and timing of the event would be critical. I think it is probably too late to get anything organised for 2010 but perhaps 2011 could be a real possibility in which case we would need to liaise with the people involved with the show to book a date which is acceptable to them, that they can fit into their work schedule. I would hope that the producers would look upon a fan convention as a good thing for the show and set that weekend aside in their plans so that everyone who wanted to could attend (but I understand that might be an unrealistic dream). Perhaps HBO themselves would lend us some assistance in organising the con? That would certainly be a big plus.

But before we can do that we need to organise ourselves, find out how many people want to do it and how many would be willing to volunteer their time and effort to work on this.

It is a big dream, I know. But the question is – do you think we could do it?
Is the Brotherhood Without Banners ready to take this next big step?
What do you think?

This post has been edited by serMountainGoat: 29 November 2009 - 06:10 PM

[Werthead]

It's a good idea, although one thing to be borne in mind is that the TV cast and crew will likely be more fired up and enthusiastic at the start of the shoot than at the end. A 30-week shoot is a long time and towards the end they may be more looking towards completing the project and getting home to see friends and family again. A big fan even may therefore go down better earlier than later (so maybe summer rather than winter, for example).

OTOH, if the show is going to be toing and froing from Ireland to Morocco and back again, maybe most of the cast will have lots of time off and be back and forth and that won't really be an issue. I think it's a good idea to get some idea on board for it though, even if we can't make concrete plans until/unless the show gets the go order.

[Silverstar]

Sounds like fun :)

If it goes ahead, I'll help out in whatever capacity needed, except for official photographer because, as we all know, I cannot take non-blurry photos to save my life.

[mormont]

History goes in circles. ;) There was talk of an ASOIAF convention long before there was a series: before, in fact, there were BwB parties at WorldCon. As I recall, GRRM and Parris made the point that running even a small con is a very big undertaking. They suggested that the BwB should come along to Worldcon, run a party, get involved in volunteering and so on not only to have a good time, but also to get an idea of how much work these things actually take to do properly and what can go wrong. (And there are many, many things that can go wrong, even just in organising a party, we have learned.)

Now, clearly the TV series, if it goes ahead - and that's still far from a sure thing IMO - adds a hell of a lot of impetus and makes a specific ASOIAF convention a more attractive proposition. I'm not wanting to rain on the idea at all. But I do want to point out that the amount of work shouldn't be underestimated. Nor will having a large number of willing volunteers necessarily make that more manageable: having a large number of volunteers creates different challenges. You need to have ways of organising that workforce, of drawing in their ideas and enthusiasm while still having a clear overall plan and clear responsibilities, and of giving legitimacy to those running the show.

What I'm saying is that this is a big challenge, and one in which very few of the BwB have relevant experience. Doing it by 2011 is a very ambitious target. You would need to get moving now to get that off the ground. And right now, it seems like this hasn't even been discussed with the people in charge of the BwB, let alone anyone else...

[Filippa Eilhart]

gothcon? :stunned: :wideeyed:

[Ran]

If Stego and X-ray were to grab on to the idea (they have more experience than most of us in this sort of fan org stuff), I think I would instead suggest looking at is getting in touch with the Octocon people and seeing what the odds are of a Game of Thrones track at their convention -- a sort of con within the con -- and so on, instead of doing the heavy-lifting of arranging all the stuff like location, accommodations, etc. I know they're a modestly sized convention compared to Worldcon, but they have the requisite experience, and if the show's a hit, it could mean a big boost in attendance. And they're located in the right area for the actors (if they're still working on the show) to pay a visit.

[Mentat]

If this were to be done, wouldn't it make more sense to do it after the series has aired in Europe?

[serMountainGoat]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes I think you are right that going from organising a party to running a full convention is a big step and maybe this does need to be thought about for a few years away so that those that are interested in taking on that responsibility can get some experience in doing that. Perhaps a three or four year plan to get from where we are now to that goal - provided this is a goal that enough people are seriously interested in reaching of course.

I think Ran's suggestion of getting more involved with Octocon is a good idea, perhaps the next stepping stone in the process. What we don't know is whether George or the organisers of Octocon have already got plans to invite members of the cast for panels and events there and they cannot announce this until HBO confirm if the show will be made or not.

Of course if the show does not get made or if George or the producers say no to this idea then we will not be going ahead with any of this anyway, but if we at least have some ideas, a plan of action to present to everyone when the time comes then I would think we stand a better chance of getting serious consideration.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I would second the suggestion of speaking to the Octocon people and organizing a dedicated ASOIAF track.

Running a con -- even a small one -- is a massive and potentially financially ruinous endeavor. I am not shitting you when I say that people have burned through their life-savings trying to get a con off the ground. Stego, Yagathai and I (and other long-time BwB members like GoN) have been actively discussing a GRRM-con for years now, we've all started becoming involved with con comms (not just WorldCon, mind, but ReaderCon, New York Comicon, Philcon, etc) to understand how to run them smoothly and without going bankrupt, and I dare say that we've more experience with the endeavor than most people on this board (there are a few notable exceptions, like Parris, Arlington Bill, makotohanabi and DaveAx). So before anyone starts booking hotels or even getting past the "huh, that might be fun" stage, please drop Stego and Yagathai a note.

[Yerman]

I'm definitely up for this.

I was planning on Octocon being my first convention anyway, so if those of you who actually know what they're doing were happy to approach Octocon about an ASOIAF themed event, I'd be more than willing to help out in whatever capacity I could.

[serMountainGoat]

Just to make it clear to everyone before you get too excited we are only discussing the possibility of doing this, it is going to take a lot of work and commitment from a lot of people to make it work and the odds are very much against it happening as it stands right now.

Hopefully Stego and Yagathai will find the thread and add their opinion before too long and I definitely want to hear what they have to say on the subject, but I can drop them a PM.


In addition I have received a message via the Google Wave discussion about the idea for a BWB party at Octocon from Danielle who is one of the organisers of that very convention who passes on this message:

Danielle said:

Hi, my name's Danielle and I'm from the Octocon committee.

Just wanted to let you know that if you want to sign up before online tickets go onsale, you can send us your details with the appropriate amount to

Octocon 2010
c/o Apt 56
Shalimar,
Monastery Road
Clondlakin
Dublin 22.
Ireland

Looking forward to seeing lots of you there!

Oh, and if you have any questions, feel free to post here, tweet us or email us. info@octocon.com

We normally run events on the Saturday night, which are party-esque, but do get in touch with us if you have better ideas. We'll be meeting up soon so we can discuss anything of the sort.

So Octocon are aware of our discussions but I think it is clear its just an idea at this stage, only the germ of an idea of a maybe possibility. On no accounts should anybody think this is concrete or start booking hotel rooms. Don't do that.

[Arlington Bill]

Remember that media guests tend to want $$$$ to appear. Authors are a bit more generous as fandom doesn't make direct payments.

[Ran]

That is a fair point. In fact, I know Jamie Campbell Bower is already on the media circuit (he had been schedule for NYCC or Big Apple con, IIRC), and Jason Momoa of course. I expect that while the actors may be very happy to meet fans in general, that if the show is greenlit and then it takes off they're going to have to be selective ... and, well, money may be a part of that selection process.

[Silverstar]

Ran, on Nov 30 2009, 14.30, said:

That is a fair point. In fact, I know Jamie Campbell Bower is already on the media circuit (he had been schedule for NYCC or Big Apple con, IIRC), and Jason Momoa of course. I expect that while the actors may be very happy to meet fans in general, that if the show is greenlit and then it takes off they're going to have to be selective ... and, well, money may be a part of that selection process.

We'll just have to get them used to hanging out with us at parties, and then surreptitously involve them in a con two or three years down the line before they realise what we're doing ;)

(If we get that far, of course)

[Arlington Bill]

After a little, and I mean really little, thought, here are a few things you will need to consider:
What is the purpose of the convention?
How much money do you intend to spend?
How are you going to recover the money spent?
Who do you want to attend?
What location will make it easy for them to attend?
What will the facilities cost?
Do you want to do anything besides ASOIAF?
Membership Fees?
Will you try to have a Dealers Room or an Art Show?
Who is going to be in charge?
One time insurance or ongoing?
Do you need to incorporate?
Can your goals be met by working with another convention?
When is the best time of the year to host for your members and guests?
How will we get the news out to other people?

I don't have answers for these questions, but you need to if you want to run a convention.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Great list, AB.

Additionally:
Who (generally) do you want as guests?
How much will they cost?
How will you entice them to participate?
How many congoers do you expect to attend?
Will there be significant mobility issues for congoers or guests?
Does anyone know how to negotiate with facilities/hotels for the best rates?
How long will the convention be?
How much money will the organizers be willing to lose/put up front?

[serMountainGoat]

Xray the Enforcer, on Nov 30 2009, 17.03, said:

Does anyone know how to negotiate with facilities/hotels for the best rates?

If dealing with the hotel in Denver had not given you aneurysm I would recommend you for this job Xray ;)


These are great lists and there is definitely a lot to think about and consider, but before we get too bogged down in the details I think we still need to answer the big question - do we really want to do this?

But perhaps we do need to know the full extent of what we would be getting into before we can adequately answer that question so if anyone has more in-depth knowledge about these things please do speak up.

[Aoifstrifiammante]

serMountainGoat, on Nov 30 2009, 19.24, said:

If dealing with the hotel in Denver had not given you aneurysm I would recommend you for this job Xray ;)


These are great lists and there is definitely a lot to think about and consider, but before we get too bogged down in the details I think we still need to answer the big question - do we really want to do this?

But perhaps we do need to know the full extent of what we would be getting into before we can adequately answer that question so if anyone has more in-depth knowledge about these things please do speak up.

I don't think you necessarily need to know the specific answers before deciding to go ahead or not, but you really do need to be aware of just how much work has to go into a con. Even just a GoT track at Octocon and/or Dublin party, for that matter.

Otherwise you'll get a lot of people (mostly based outside of Dublin/Ireland, it seems) saying "yes, that'll be great.... now someone else sort it out."

[Parris]

while I'm all for more conventions that would bring more ASoI&F fans together, several people have already written wise words about the massive amounts of money, time, and planning that goes into creating from scratch even a small (less than 200 attendees) convention.

If there's folks who are interested in creating a new convention, the best way to learn how to do that is by volunteering and working at already established conventions, and using the experience they gain to move forward in management and planning.

If you aren't doing anything important next weekend, go on down to SMOFCon in Austin and get a crash course in 'budgeting 101' which is a prime focus of this year's SMOFcon.

When you consider doing a cross-over convention, with literary/fannish/media guests and attendees, your workload triples, and your costs can as well.

Most writers/artists in the SF community are willing to attend a convention as a GoH for little more than transportation, a good hotel room, and a modest per diem to cover food etc., but when you want actors to attend, you're more likely to need to pay them an appearance fee as well as expenses.

It's a treacherous undertaking, not without great rewards, but it can bankrupt a committee, not just financially, but can cause loss of community and friendships as well.

Start small, learn from those who have been doing this kind of thing for decades, volunteer at conventions, not just as a door-watcher or art show gopher, but for months before the convention date. Tell the people running departments you want to learn more, ask to help do the dirty work and the boring work that has to be done. You'll be doing prep work on weekends and at night for months before the convention, no matter what area of con-running you decide to focus on.

Then explain to your family and friends that you'll be working on conventions every major holiday for the next couple of years. On your own dime.

All of the above just scratches the surface of what becoming a good con-runner entails.

Which is why I am very thankful and appreciative of those who make running conventions their main "hobby", even though I may have gripes with specific SMOFs and concoms, the work and sacrifice that goes into creating a good convention is a gift to our communities that is priceless.

Parris
PS: The proper naming of the Convention should be: GoTCon.

This post has been edited by Parris: 30 November 2009 - 02:19 PM

[Parris]

serMountainGoat, on Nov 30 2009, 07.07, said:

So Octocon are aware of our discussions but I think it is clear its just an idea at this stage, only the germ of an idea of a maybe possibility. On no accounts should anybody think this is concrete or start booking hotel rooms. Don't do that.

Re OctoCon:

If you want to ensure that the OctoCon committee can budget and plan for a great convention next year, now is the time to buy your memberships and tell them if you plan to volunteer in any capacity.

Most conventions operate on very limited budgets, and if they don't have money upfront, they won't spend money they don't have. So even if you're only 50% sure you will attend, paying your membership fee now will help the concom pay for the expenses they have months before the convention starts. Consider it an investment in making the convention the best it can be. Buying a membership also helps with planning on how much function space and they need and can afford. While it can be devastating to plan for a convention of 200 and only have 100 people attend, it can also be a wreck if they plan for 200 people and 400 people turn up on Friday to find there's inadequate function rooms and the restaurant and bar are closed at 10pm because the hotel didn't expect such large crowds.

Do the right thing, and buy your membership early, reserve your hotel room as soon as possible through the convention - they don't get 'credit' if you book separately - and plan to help with the operations of the convention long before the convention takes place and/or during the days of the convention.