41 replies to this topic

[Defender of the Vale]

I just finished reading this book and was wondering what other people thought of it. While I found some parts of it entertaining, I feel that it would have benefited from being edited down a great deal. I also find it hard to believe their is such a large amount of homocidal and sadistic 18-23 year olds in that small town. Any other impressions?

Edited by Defender of the Vale, 31 December 2009 - 05:29 PM.

[Foreverlad]

Defender of the Vale, on 31 December 2009 - 12:03 AM, said:

I just finished reading this book and was wondering what other people thought of it. While I found some parts of it entertaining, I feel that it would have benefited from being edited down a great deal. I also find it hard to believe their is such a large amount of homocidal and sadistic 18-23 year olds in that small town. Any other impressions?

Reading it right now. It's the first Stephen King novel I've read since... gosh, probably DT7. While I'm only 3-400 pages in, I'm astounded at how well I remember his writing style. He's extremely talented at pulling out detail and being well versed in...well, all sorts of things, but he does have a tendency to create situations and encounters that add nothing to the story.

I was surprised to see the book was over a thousand pages long. For a book like The Stand, I could see it, but Under the Dome appears to be a bit too big for my liking. The story isn't dull, and King's 'aww-shucks' Northeasternisms don't grate on me like they once did, but I'm worried the book is going to play out too much like a, pardon me, Stephen King novel. Posse of ridiculously evil cops/young adults, psychic/mental phenomena, tons of grizzly and/or absolute-worse-case-scenario situations, etc.

Compared to what I usually read, it's an interesting change of pace, but that's only because I don't read King anymore.

I'll try and post again once I'm through with the book.

[With Rye]

I liked the book overall, it was entertaining. I agree with you that it can be edited down. The story didn't need 1000+ pages to tell.

Regarding the characters, I LOVED to hate Big Jim and was sorely disappointed in how he ended up. I also cringe every time King attempts to describe modern teenagers. They DO NOT act and speak like real teenagers do. Valiant effort though.

Also, the ending sucked, but I guess that's not the point since it's a book about characters and how they react to bizarre and incredibly surreal situations. But still, the resolution was pretty lame.

Spoiler

Aliens?? SUPER LAME.

[Gormenghast]

My lengthy (no spoilers) review is here: http://www.cesspit.n...rupal/node/1933

I liked the book a lot and didn't think it was overlong, with the exception maybe of 20-30 pages in two different points of the book. But really not enough to be a concern.

The ending sucks because it is dissonant with the 1050 pages before. It's a valley after a peak and so invariably leaves a bitter taste.

For those who are not aware I point out that the symbol unexplained in the book is the same symbol that appears on the door to the nest of IT's monster.

[Arthmail]

Damn, beat me to it. I was going to go on a rant about authors phoning in their works with repeated phrases and or ideas.
I am a huge Stephen King fan, but Under the Dome was utterly fucking stupid. I only finished it because my dad bought it for me for christmas, and while i can defend the new Dark Tower novels, there is nothing here to defend. This is possibly one of the worst books ever written, and what praise it has recieved from critics is both wrong and troublesome. Critics that blasted him for his better works suddenly admire this one because he is now considered main stream.

The trouble lies partly in the fact that King has been regurgitating stock characters for fucking DECADES. The names change, but the archtypes tend to remain the same. There is a kid that is something of a super genius, special, touched by god with the brains of a young Einstein. The main hero is usually conflicted by some darkness in their past, wether it be alocohol abuse, drug abuse, or something that torments them deeply (in the real world, not everyone is afflicted by this, and while i can understand to some extent given King's own battles with addiction, it doesnt mean that everyone of note has the same problems). There are small town red necks that believe in god and jesus more than in the love they hold for their kids. Thats almost a given for him. He is, obviously, not a man of faith...which i have always respected him for, but not everyone that believes in god is a complete wingnut, nor even the majority. Perhaps he sees a side of America that i don't.
Then there are the gruesome list of deaths. People die in the most amazing ways, and he lists them all. Including people that have no real relevance to the story.

I could handle all of this, if it wasn't for the complete and utter bullshit that is the psychological narrative of Under the Dome. After only a few days under the dome, people are fucking murdering each other. The town selectman, actually the Second Selectman, goes from being a used car salesman to a tinpot dictator. King tries to write it away as some form of madness, but thats too easy. It also doesn't explain how the people of that town think that its OK for their leader to start imposing martial law and doing whatever the fuck he pleases. They don't mind that he ignores orders from the President, because hey, he's one of the good old boys and he's always cared about the town. They ignore the fact that his son is a raging lunatic, and that the cops he's hired after the dome came down are all raging lunactics. They just accept whatever the fuck he says...and King writes Big Jim as though the man has not a care in the world...even though if the dome were to come down, which it could have at any point because they had no idea what it was or what was causing it, Jim would find himself in the deepest hole in America. But King writes that off to insanity, and most of the town blindly follow. I'm all for people being stupid, but not that fucking stupid.

I am not going to spoiler anything, because this book is not worth the paper it was printed on.

King must hate small town people, and have a very low opinion of people in general, because most people in his books are racist retards. Only a few are good, or smart enough, to actually figure things out on their own.

I skipped entire lenghts of this book, my only intention to see it through so that when my dad asked if i was done it yet i could respond truthfully. Hopefully he doesn't ask how much i liked it, but knowing that i like King, he probably won't, assuming that i will like it.

I can handle the farsicle in King's books, because thats what makes them so interesting. But i want to see how people might really react given these extreme situations, and in no way does what he wrote represent people that are more than thin characatures for King to bash around and then murder. An initially neat idea completely shit on by a man that probably should have followed through with his intention to discontinue writing years ago, because whatever talent he once had has been lost. It might be that he has written too many books, and that i have read them and have seen the same things repeated ad naseum. I might even be able to forgive that, but not after this fucking thing.

[Memory Lane]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 01:01 AM, said:

*snip* Arthmail

That's depressing. I'd been hoping that I could enjoy one of the King books after DT7 - I've tried Cell, Lisey's Story, and Duma Key, but ended up putting all of them down about 40-50 pages in out of boredom. None of it drew me in like his older stuff.

Quote

There are small town red necks that believe in god and jesus more than in the love they hold for their kids. Thats almost a given for him. He is, obviously, not a man of faith...which i have always respected him for, but not everyone that believes in god is a complete wingnut, nor even the majority.

I think it's more organized religion than faith in general. King's books are chock full of supernatural stuff, and the whole thing is in your standard dualistic cosmology (light vs dark, order vs random, etc). Just look at the religiosity from Mother Abigail in The Stand.

Edited by Guardsman Bass, 31 December 2009 - 01:59 AM.

[Arthmail]

Guardsman Bass, on 31 December 2009 - 01:56 AM, said:

That's depressing. I'd been hoping that I could enjoy one of the King books after DT7 - I've tried Cell, Lisey's Story, and Duma Key, but ended up putting all of them down about 40-50 pages in out of boredom. None of it drew me in like his older stuff.



I think it's more organized religion than faith in general. King's books are chock full of supernatural stuff, and the whole thing is in your standard dualistic cosmology (light vs dark, order vs random, etc). Just look at the religiosity from Mother Abigail in The Stand.

Right, but as a defunct Roman Catholic who knows many RCs, i wouldn't label them all racist idiots like he does. Perhaps, as a Canadian, i cannot see some of the small town life that he does in rural USA. But really, organized religion can be OK. And he tends to accept the supernatural more than religion, which is fine, but he generally paints them with a broad brush. And, after however many dozens of books, it gets a little boring.

Edited by Arthmail, 31 December 2009 - 02:04 AM.

[awesome possum]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 02:04 AM, said:

Right, but as a defunct Roman Catholic who knows many RCs, i wouldn't label them all racist idiots like he does.

You're sadly mistaken if that's what you think he does.  Not all of the religious people he portrays are racist idiots.  Just the racist idiots are racist idiots.  There are two churches in Chester's Mill, and one of them is more fundamentalist.  I don't know if you've seen or met fundamentalists, but the vast majority of them are loopy, racist morons who would have fit better in the world had they been born in the Dark Ages.

King has displayed several characters so far who are religious but not "racist morons."  The sheriff's wife, for one.  The female pastor of the Congo church.  The pastor of the other church, while clearly insane, was going to do the right thing before Big Jim played baseball with him.  The sad fact is, when bad stuff happens people turn to their religion and tend to use it to justify anything they want.  Just because King tends to use it in his fiction doesn't mean it's make-believe.


I'm only about 300 pages into the book and am enjoying it, though dreading it as well because I can basically tell where it's going from here.  Hope he delivers a few twists, because while he always manages to make the human-reaction aspect interesting, I don't know if he can keep it interesting for several hundred more pages.  And frankly, the antagonists are annoying as hell.  The only reason I can continue reading Big Jim is because I picture him as John Goodman and John Goodman plays evil pretty damned well (it's almost like King specifically wrote the part thinking of Goodman).  But Junior and his friends are all just cheesy and grating.  I just don't see how being the privileged bullies of a town can lead to being murdering, raping, psychopaths without really missing a beat.  I know all or most of them will get their comeuppance, but I really am dreading having to watch them run rampant through the town while everyone but their victims turns a blind eye.

It's almost like King missed Ace Merrill so much he created five of them.

Edited by Ser Possum, 31 December 2009 - 11:32 AM.

[Tormund Midgetsbane]

I read it over my Christmas vacation,  I thought it started strong, with very good middle, but kind of a let-down ending.  Really, I expected it, because how do you resolve a problem like the dome satisfactorally?

I didn't find the actions of the characters to be at all unbelievable, even in the short space of time.  Try checking out the Stanford Prison Experiment to see how fast a situation like that can go to hell, and that was without something as panic-inducing as the dome in play.  I found the villians to be more real and better fleshed out than the protagonists, and maybe that was by design.

I also think it important to point out that I don't think King was bashing on religion or the religious in this book.  We only have 4 characters in the book who exhibit any kind of religious behavior, Big Jim, Pastor Lestor, Pastor whatsherface, and the Chef.  Only one of these used religion as an excuse for evil deeds and it clearly was a facade that was being put up.  No one else in town really seemed too passionate about religion and there were hundredds of people who we never even heard from.

[Defender of the Vale]

Quote

I also cringe every time King attempts to describe modern teenagers. They DO NOT act and speak like real teenagers do. Valiant effort though.

My thoughts exactly. King's dialogue for teenage characters is akin to using google language translators. You kind of get the same meaning, but in the end you just sound like a jackass.

Like I said above the book did entertain me, I certainly wasn't forcing myself to finish it or anything. However, can anyone tell me what-the-hell kind of purpose the Andrea Grinnel (sp?) storyline served the book? It had absolutely no payoff at all, and was just extremely anti-climatic.

Edited by Defender of the Vale, 31 December 2009 - 01:55 PM.

[Arthmail]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 31 December 2009 - 12:15 PM, said:

I read it over my Christmas vacation,  I thought it started strong, with very good middle, but kind of a let-down ending.  Really, I expected it, because how do you resolve a problem like the dome satisfactorally?

I didn't find the actions of the characters to be at all unbelievable, even in the short space of time.  Try checking out the Stanford Prison Experiment to see how fast a situation like that can go to hell, and that was without something as panic-inducing as the dome in play.  I found the villians to be more real and better fleshed out than the protagonists, and maybe that was by design.

I also think it important to point out that I don't think King was bashing on religion or the religious in this book.  We only have 4 characters in the book who exhibit any kind of religious behavior, Big Jim, Pastor Lestor, Pastor whatsherface, and the Chef.  Only one of these used religion as an excuse for evil deeds and it clearly was a facade that was being put up.  No one else in town really seemed too passionate about religion and there were hundredds of people who we never even heard from.

People need to stop bringing up the Stanford Prison Experiment like it conclusive proof that when people are left on their own they will turn into monsters. As i mentioned eslewhere, there is a discassociation involved with those experiments, same as in war. If you can't see a person die, you are unlikely to really care as much. Perhaps i'll write a rebuttal of it sometime later, or not.
Anyways, one experiment is not enough proof in any case. Besides which, going from small town thug to rapist and murderer (with females encouraging the rape of other females), is bullshit. It would simply take longer than five days.

And as for the hundreds of people you never from, they were a convenient mass from which King could give Big Jim a pulpit. It was utterly unbelievable. Societies tend to start breaking down when the power/water/food go out, not because they've been cut off for a few days.

[awesome possum]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 02:45 PM, said:

Besides which, going from small town thug to rapist and murderer (with females encouraging the rape of other females), is bullshit. It would simply take longer than five days.

I'm still at page 300 for now, but as far as I know only Junior has murdered anyone and he did it without even knowing the Dome was up.  So he was basically a homicidal lunatic before the crisis.  The others, though, I agree.  The bullying the others did at the cookout/prayer meeting/protest was convincing enough, but for the guys to then go gang rape a woman because she "embarrassed" one of them by saying she didn't want to have sex?  It was ridiculous and just King setting up that the rest of Junior's buddies were as bad as Junior, which he could have done much more subtly.

[Defender of the Vale]

Spoiler

I believe King wanted the reason for Junior to be so messed up was his brain tumor. He even suggested in one part that a symptom of those are a more violent temperment, but I have no idea if that is medically accurate or not.

[Gormenghast]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 01:01 AM, said:

He is, obviously, not a man of faith...which i have always respected him for, but not everyone that believes in god is a complete wingnut, nor even the majority. Perhaps he sees a side of America that i don't.

I don't think King had in mind to use Chester's Mill as REPRESENTATIVE of towns in America. I think this is a wrong way to criticize the book.

It's even possible that the dome came down on THAT particular town because the people in there were quite unique and interesting. It's an unique situation, the dome comes down and lights up situations there were all already there in potential.

King himself said that the Andy - Rennie relationship is inspired by Cheney - Bush (and it surely doesn't mean that in every town there's the same power struggle going on). King puts in the town characters and themes he wants to write about. But I don't think he wants to make them representative of reality. They are archetypal, but not representative. Real are the reactions accordingly to what the characters are, but you can't really believe that King wanted to describe what would happen if the dome came down on whatever town out there. Chester's Mill was handpicked. It's a case of extraordinariety.

You can criticize the characters and their stories, whether they behave realistically or not accordingly to who they are. But you can't criticize King because those characters he chose aren't truly representative and realistic because I doubt that's what King was trying to do in the first place.

Edited by Gormenghast, 31 December 2009 - 11:31 PM.

[Gormenghast]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 01:01 AM, said:

It also doesn't explain how the people of that town think that its OK for their leader to start imposing martial law and doing whatever the fuck he pleases.

This being plain wrong. You can say that his reasons don't convince you, but the book definitely describes the process. It's actually what the WHOLE book is about.

Quote

Jim would find himself in the deepest hole in America. But King writes that off to insanity, and most of the town blindly follow.

I don't think Rennie is or is described as insane. Junior is quite insane (and the book explains the reason), Rennie is instead very, very lucid.

Quote

I skipped entire lenghts of this book

Maybe that's why things don't make sense for you.

[Arthmail]

Gormenghast, on 31 December 2009 - 11:36 PM, said:

This being plain wrong. You can say that his reasons don't convince you, but the book definitely describes the process. It's actually what the WHOLE book is about.


I don't think Rennie is or is described as insane. Junior is quite insane (and the book explains the reason), Rennie is instead very, very lucid.


Maybe that's why things don't make sense for you.

Yea, sure. Most people in a small town, especially middle america, are willing to accept totalitarian rule, confiscation of weapons, administration of food, and eventualy murder, after five days? I don't fucking think so. Give me a break. Perhaps after a month in the dome, but less than a week. You are wrong on so many counts here. And if by him explaining you mean rushing through and muddling most of it up so that he can get on with the good parts, like murders and rapes and other such scenes that have become somewhat tiresome coming from him, then you are right. He explained it. But coming from the man who wrote The Stand, with nauanced and interesting characters, who progressed in believable ways (Larry Underwood), this books seems a quick hack job.

No, Rennie wasn't described as insane, Junior was. (Using a method he has used before...headaches). But he clearly wasn't lucid. For him to think that he can just up and do whatever he pleases, with no real forknowledge of how or when the dome is going to falll, strikes me as false. At the beginning Big Jim seemed like he had some brains in his head. He was a successful business man after all, and i sersiouly doubt he would start throwing all of that away after five peasly days without looking to at least see which way the political wind is blowing. King reiterates several times that Big Jim is the consumate politician, but in no way does he act like one.

Skipping parts didn't mess up the story. It was a way to get past King's mistakes.

And in regards to your first response, how much King have you read? Because these themes of small town racist hicks are heavy throughout most of his works. Most of the people in most of his small towns are fairly pleasant, but all seem borderline racist idiots at the best of times.

Sure, he wasn't looking for realistic people to inhabit his town. He simply wanted cut out characters painted with a very broad brush so he could manipulate the story with a heavy fist.

[Tormund Midgetsbane]

Quote

Yea, sure. Most people in a small town, especially middle america, are willing to accept totalitarian rule, confiscation of weapons, administration of food, and eventualy murder, after five days? I don't fucking think so. Give me a break.

I submit to you the aftermath of hurricane katrina, in which all of those things did happen in that period of time.  And the people in The Mill did not accept murder,  the murderers sought to frame someone else and thus channel the rage of the populace.

Quote

Because these themes of small town racist hicks are heavy throughout most of his works. Most of the people in most of his small towns are fairly pleasant, but all seem borderline racist idiots at the best of times.

I've lived in small towns in several states in this country, and they are full of borderline racist idiots.  Sad but true,

Edited by Tormund Midgetsbane, 02 January 2010 - 01:53 PM.

[Uruk-hai]

Arthmail, on 31 December 2009 - 02:45 PM, said:

Anyways, one experiment is not enough proof in any case. Besides which, going from small town thug to rapist and murderer (with females encouraging the rape of other females), is bullshit. It would simply take longer than five days.

No, but one experiment is anough to allow the possibility of it happening. And you're incredibly naive if you think that a gang-mentality can't happen quickly. I've been on both sides of it. I'll submit that the female egging on the guys to rape another female is something that's out of my experience, but I have seen instances close to it.

[YellowDogJen]

YAY! An Under the Dome thread!

(*disclaimer* I'm a huge King fan , and have been for years. I own most of his books, and many of them are worn to tatters - and some have been replaced.)

I got Under the Dome for Christmas, and read it in a couple of days. I enjoyed it a lot - I always say he reads like a freight train. Once you get on board with Uncle Steve, he just rolls on. His books are easy reads, and his imagery/description is great. And UtD was no exception to that.

In this book, King is heavy handed with his themes and symbolism. Even to a "casual reader" like myself they were obvious - global warming and pollution, religious hypocrisy, misguided trust in leaders, and the idea that many people quickly lose their civilized veneer when faced with disaster/fear/life-threatening scenarios. So in many ways, UtD seems like a morality play, if that's the right expression.

I have to laugh about The Simpsons Movie, as it explored some of the same territory in a similar circumstance (and how!), coincidentally or not.

Under the Dome was an enjoyable read and I'll probably read it again, and maybe take it slower the second time. I got a big kick out of the Andy/Big Jim partnership that is so obviously a riff on Bush/Cheney.

I will say that I didn't get invested in any of the characters, and didn't really care if any of them made it to the end or not. So for me, the characterization was 'fail'.

I loved the action, and the ending didn't bother me either. I would have liked to have more scares and supernatural creepiness, but I would recommend the book overall.

[Arthmail]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 02 January 2010 - 01:52 PM, said:

I submit to you the aftermath of hurricane katrina, in which all of those things did happen in that period of time.  And the people in The Mill did not accept murder,  the murderers sought to frame someone else and thus channel the rage of the populace.



I've lived in small towns in several states in this country, and they are full of borderline racist idiots.  Sad but true,

Katrina, in which people were in immediate danger of dying. The waters were rising, they had no food or power, and the only simularity was that they didn't know when help was coming. That being said, the people of Chester's Mill had absolutely no idea if the dome was going to go down in a month, or the next five minutes. They had plenty of food, water, and they even had power that might last the month if they could budget properly. Also consider that they were a tight knit community, and having come from a small community, i know that there is a certain amount of expectation and social stigma involved - it would take awhile for the values of the townspeople, who are just regular, everyday people, to be ground down to the point that they accept this sort of thing.
And they did accept murder, because King simply waved his creative hand and had everyone just up and believe the Second Selectmen, even though there was, you know, no proof. Perhaps the next response will be that Barbie, as the new guy, was easy to signal out because he was new. That the townspeople stick to their own and never accept newcomers. But this is such a sad trope, seen in almost every movie and book involving a small town. Most of my family lives in one small town or another, and while its true of some people, others don't really give a shit. In the case of this book, it was just an easy way to progress a plot riddled with holes.

But, like i said, i don't know American small towns. Perhaps they are as bad as King depicts in every book. I think its just a tiresome generalization, and i fail to understand how everyone in everyone town can be like that save for a select few.

Edited by Arthmail, 03 January 2010 - 01:42 AM.