[Dylanfanatic]

Although I am by nature a sarcastic person, I'm finding myself being rather bored by a few of the recently active threads here. After a while, there is only so much snark of the finally, nearly-moribund Goodkind threads nature that one can take. But rather than just criticize those who seem to enjoy in what may be a masochistic fashion the readings of authors they despise just to unload sarcastic, cynical commentaries on the perceived faults of such works and/or the authors, I wonder if something more productive than whining may be done.

Anyone ever been tempted to take the Goodkind (and I guess now Elric thread, even if it seems to be largely limited to one person posting her thoughts at length) "discussion" model and invert it? Instead of having copious "quotes of the day" or detailed chapter summaries showcasing "the suck," what about having a thread or threads devoted to highlighting at length the stories and prose that are beautiful, that are moving, that might somehow appeal to someone? Or is that too daunting of a challenge, that of sticking one's neck out there and discussing at length the merits of a book and its prose, characterization, plot, etc.?

At the very least, it might just create discussion of older and newer works that goes beyond cursory comments of praise. Anyone up for this challenge?

[murphy]

What about lines or passages from a book that affected you emotionally in some way; made you laugh, cry or whatever?

This post has been edited by murphy: 03 February 2010 - 08:14 PM

[The Evil Hat]

It's harder to agree on what's amazing rather than what sucks, but it'd be definitely worthwhile if someone was willing to put in the time to make such a thing work.

[Myshkin]

1) It's fun to bitch

2) I'd like your idea a lot more if your post was a little less condescending.

ETA: Apparently you can't type B ) without it automatically being converted to B)

This post has been edited by Myshkin: 03 February 2010 - 10:53 PM

[Ski the Swift]

I don't tend to whinge about books, so I'd be up for the challenge. Although I'm not the best person to convert my thoughts into words. But I'll try!

[Errant Bard]

Myshkin, on 04 February 2010 - 04:51 AM, said:

2) I'd like your idea a lot more if your post was a little less condescending.

Heh, but if you didn't like condescension, you wouldn't like the Goodkind threads.

[Lummel]

Dylanfanatic, on 04 February 2010 - 12:52 AM, said:

a thread or threads devoted to highlighting at length the stories and prose that are beautiful, that are moving, that might somehow appeal to someone

There's room for both types of thread on the board.

I don't think that a thread that just lists favourite passages is quite as interesting as a thread dedicated to a single book, rather like the Watership Down thread.

Anybody got any ideas for a book to start with?

[Vrana]

Something that a lot of people have read, so that any discussion could be as multifaceted as possible?

I'd love this sort of thread, if nothing else, than to see other people's analysis and insight on a book.

[Jon AS]

Vrana, on 04 February 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

Something that a lot of people have read, so that any discussion could be as multifaceted as possible?

I'd love this sort of thread, if nothing else, than to see other people's analysis and insight on a book.

Let's start with LOTR then. Get ready for some Tom Bombadil quotes.:P

More seriously, I agree that if this proposed thread is to be a success it will have to deal with a book that a lot of people know.

[firqorescu]

If you don't like the snarky threads, why don't you stop reading them?

If you want a thread that focuses on good writing, why don't you start one instead of a meta thread like this?

[Vrana]

firqorescu, on 04 February 2010 - 10:21 AM, said:

If you don't like the snarky threads, why don't you stop reading them?

If you want a thread that focuses on good writing, why don't you start one instead of a meta thread like this?

How about avoiding snarky comments in a thread that explicitly states being sick of them? :P (I should be one to talk, that was if not full on snarky at least a little snide)

I think the point of starting a thread like this is to read others reactions, and maybe get input on how to go about it before starting the actual thread.

I don't know. I'll be quiet now.

[kve]

I like the snark threads. They're always good for some quick non thought provoking fun (I'm talking about the new snark threads, the goodkind ones went a little overboard IMO).

As for a more positive aproach thread, well off course I'd love that too. I don't post that often but I might even participate in it. :)

There's two ways I can see this going:

As suggested above we could go with a book that most of us have read and is generally loved. Perhaps the gunslinger or Tigana/lions of Al-Rahsan or maybe prince of nothing. Those are the ones that come to mind first.

Or we could go with something most of us haven't read and approach this book with an open mind. I'm looking at the more widely read members of this board now for suggestions (the bloggers?).
Say for instance Dylanfanatic selects a book that we will then be discussing next month. This gives people time to acquire said book. Ideally this book should be available in most libraries or in stock online (and off course not too expensive).
Then we simultaneously read and comment on said book one chapter at a time.

Who knows? The result might still be snarking or discussion but at least we gave it a fair chance.

[mormont]

I have to admit I wonder if there is room for the snarky threads. I mean, snark is fine, but threads created specifically to mock books? Books being read just so they can be mocked? Personally, I'm not interested and I skip them as a result - but if you asked me whether we should have them at all, I'd be inclined to say 'no'. I'd be interested to hear other thoughts on this. It's something we have discussed among the moderators.

In the meantime, a thread or two devoted to favourite quotes or passages and why we enjoy them would be nice.

[Comrade MinDonner]

As one of the chief purveyors of snark, I can't pretend to be a disinterested party here, but I would be both sad and baffled to see them go. They honestly take up very little space in the Lit forum, compared to (for example) the innumerable recommendation threads - and it's not like there are no threads in GC and elsewhere set up specifically to snark at, say, Sarah Palin, or some Creationists, or Uwe Boll, or whatever. For a reason beyond mere entertainment, the Goodkind threads and others have also brought up some good discussions of politics and morality over the years, and it's been really helpful as a writer to see some genuinely bad writing and get a good idea of which pitfalls to avoid.

My $0.02.

[Imagica]

Quote

I mean, snark is fine, but threads created specifically to mock books? Books being read just so they can be mocked? Personally, I'm not interested and I skip them as a result

Yeah, me too. It gets old very quickly, imho.
And I never liked Goodkind, and I outright hate all this BDSM/rape crap his books seem to be full of, not to mention being vehicles for author tracts, but I often wonder what's the reason for mocking him year after year? While there are a lot of other books - good books - to be read and discussed (and critiqued). Is it bile fascination? Accentuating the negative?

[Nerdanel]

The problem with doing a thread based on reading a good book is that if it's done like a snark thread the readers of the thread would be better off just reading the book on their own (the only reason I didn't skip Brak once it turned out good was that I wasn't likely to get that book into my hands) and if it's done like a normal group read thread, there's nothing new and innovative about that. Group reads have been going on for a long time, but I have never been into them for several reasons, the most important of which is the necessity to read at a very particular pace. I prefer general discussion threads to that.

[Maithanet]

MinDonner, on 04 February 2010 - 07:48 AM, said:

As one of the chief purveyors of snark, I can't pretend to be a disinterested party here, but I would be both sad and baffled to see them go. They honestly take up very little space in the Lit forum, compared to (for example) the innumerable recommendation threads - and it's not like there are no threads in GC and elsewhere set up specifically to snark at, say, Sarah Palin, or some Creationists, or Uwe Boll, or whatever. For a reason beyond mere entertainment, the Goodkind threads and others have also brought up some good discussions of politics and morality over the years, and it's been really helpful as a writer to see some genuinely bad writing and get a good idea of which pitfalls to avoid.

My $0.02.

As a supporter of Min's barbarian-bashing thread, I must insist upon the value of such threads. They are fun, and interesting, because it shows how writing has changed and what sorts of pitfalls bad writers seem to run into again and again. It also shows people's tolerance for some types of poor writing, where other types of bad writing are insufferable.

I would happily do a re-read of a quality book if people were interested. I don't know if I would want to do a book I haven't read that way though, because those books I prefer to go at my own pace.

Have we ever done a Dune reread?

This post has been edited by Maithanet: 04 February 2010 - 09:34 AM

[Ser Renasko]

How about Magician by Raymond E. Feist? I've been considering doing a re-read of the entire series, or at least that one, and doing some analysis, etc. Oh hell, I'll probably do it, anyway.

This post has been edited by Ser Renasko: 04 February 2010 - 09:43 AM

[kcf]

mormont, on 04 February 2010 - 04:22 AM, said:

I have to admit I wonder if there is room for the snarky threads. I mean, snark is fine, but threads created specifically to mock books? Books being read just so they can be mocked? Personally, I'm not interested and I skip them as a result - but if you asked me whether we should have them at all, I'd be inclined to say 'no'. I'd be interested to hear other thoughts on this. It's something we have discussed among the moderators.

I'm the same way - while I can certaily appreciate snark and mocking (and am not immune to producing some myself from time to time), I think that overall those threads reflect very poorly on what I otherwise consider the best place online to discuss the books I love. I find it odd that threads that discuss rumors about why book are delayed get locked but a similar thread that outright mocks said book or author can get a green light with hundreds of replies. Personally, I just avoid those threads, but I think those posts really belong in a seperate subforum if they belong at all (and by their popularity, I'd say they belong someplace).

[firqorescu]

mormont, on 04 February 2010 - 12:22 PM, said:

I have to admit I wonder if there is room for the snarky threads.

Of course there is room for the snarky threads. They have been a popular part of the Literature board since the Westeros forum started and I see nothing that has changed regarding their place here recently.