189 replies to this topic

[oneeye]

They could have an Adama go into hibernation for 500 years and then ....

Bidi Bidi Bidi

[red snow]

Werthead, on 17 March 2010 - 03:53 PM, said:

This could have worked if they'd kept the original ending to the series, in which Galactica makes a controlled landing in South America and in the flash-forwards we see archaeologists digging out the remains of the ship. That could be a jumping-off point for a sequel series in which humans retro-engineer the FTL drive and go into space, encountering the Cylons along the way (maybe as allies against a different, greater threat?). HeadBaltar/Six could then appear to provide continuity with the original series. Somewhat corncheese, but not unviably so.

I think the reason they ditched the buried ship idea was because the site they picked was goign to be somewhere that exists and as they were fairly confident that there wasn't a Galactica under it that it would undermine their message. By removing all trace of the tech it was meant to leave us thinking it was our real history.
I don't know how delusional they think we all are.

Easy retcon, if they even required humans to have FTL, would be to say some of the survivors quickly said; "hang on a minute, that was really stupid throwing all our technolgy out the window" and rebuild the tech (over years/generations). Or decide theere was a lost ship from the convoy that found a beacon or some shit and turned up. This is a BSG spin-off so in reality the retcons/ideas don't even have to gel or be in continuity

Maybe some of the BSG survivors build a high tech atlantis and design a cylon that is made up of smoke and can take the shape of dead humans? The atlantis in question can move through time and space and the FTL drive is a weird electromagnet?

[Myrddin]

red snow, on 17 March 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

Or decide theere was a lost ship from the convoy that found a beacon or some shit and turned up.

This could work. A ship got lost in the mass jump to Earth and turns up years later (after the Cylons left and the tech incinerated). The ship, limping out of hyperspace, crashes into S. America to form the basis for Atlantis later.

And a group of humans not descended from Hera.

[Paddy]

Werthead, on 17 March 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

I rejected this explanation as being completely retarded and not making any sense at all. Showing the Head-Beings in modern day NYC does pretty much exactly the same thing.

I agree that Moore's reasoning is pretty weak, but I don't think I follow your last sentence.
How does showing the Head-Beings in modern day NYC establish that BSG is set in an alternate reality and not leave open the possibility that it is our present-day reality?

[Werthead]

Paddy, on 17 March 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

I agree that Moore's reasoning is pretty weak, but I don't think I follow your last sentence.
How does showing the Head-Beings in modern day NYC establish that BSG is set in an alternate reality and not leave open the possibility that it is our present-day reality?

Because showing anything from the BSG universe in our real-world setting confirms that it isn't 'the real world' in the series (because we know the show is pure fiction). Simply ending on the pull-back from Adama on his hill (or, possibly better, ending on the shot of Galactica entering orbit over Earth) would have made Moore's point more effectively and kept the series separate from our reality. In fact, that might have been a stronger ending, as we'd have been left with the heavy intimation that it was Earth in the past (cavemen, no signs of civilisation, everyone settling in Africa from where humanity sprung in real history) but not 100% confirmation, as we got in the NYC scene.

[WhiteHaven]

Wait. Isn't BSG the series which had an awesome first season, and a very good second season but then started talking about God Almighty all the time?

Ah. I'll pass this one. Though I must admit, I loved and love the first season.

[Shryke]

GenosseWH, on 17 March 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

Wait. Isn't BSG the series which had an awesome first season, and a very good second season but then started talking about God Almighty all the time?

Ah. I'll pass this one. Though I must admit, I loved and love the first season.

No, it was talking about God right from the start.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Werthead, on 17 March 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

I forgot that in that scenario, it was going to be 5,000 or so years ago, not 150,000, and they were going to tie the Galactica crew and survivors into the Greek myths.

This all got changed because - get this - Moore was concerned that by showing 21st Century humans digging out the Galactica, they were directly tying the Galactica universe into an alternate reality of our one, rather than saying our world as we know it now could be a direct result of events in the series.

I rejected this explanation as being completely retarded and not making any sense at all. Showing the Head-Beings in modern day NYC does pretty much exactly the same thing.

God forbid science fiction actually embrace the fiction from time to time. Next thing I know, you'll be telling me that I shouldn't actually expect first contact with the Vulcans in 2057.

[Harry the Heir]

Mack Kilimaro, on 17 March 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

God forbid science fiction actually embrace the fiction from time to time. Next thing I know, you'll be telling me that I shouldn't actually expect first contact with the Vulcans in 2057.

I find this comment disrespectful to the men and women who fought so bravely in the First Eugenics War of 1992 - 1996.

[Paddy]

Werthead, on 17 March 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

Because showing anything from the BSG universe in our real-world setting confirms that it isn't 'the real world' in the series (because we know the show is pure fiction). Simply ending on the pull-back from Adama on his hill (or, possibly better, ending on the shot of Galactica entering orbit over Earth) would have made Moore's point more effectively and kept the series separate from our reality. In fact, that might have been a stronger ending, as we'd have been left with the heavy intimation that it was Earth in the past (cavemen, no signs of civilisation, everyone settling in Africa from where humanity sprung in real history) but not 100% confirmation, as we got in the NYC scene.

Obviously, by definition, anything which is fiction is set in an alternate reality.
But surely the conceit can exist that some fiction is set in our reality?

Moore is right that if they had it that the Galactica was landed, lets say on Manhattan Island, and the city of New York grew up around it, then the viewer will think "that is inconsistent with my reality, so it's not my reality", but by not doing that the viewer can draw the connection between the survivors and what is known about our origins and go "the crew of galactica are our ancestors.... oooh." Of course, there are issues with the archaeological evidence and that reasoning, but only few viewers would have had the knowledge to be able to dismiss it (until, that is, they came on the Internet and found people giving them lots of reasons why it couldn't be the case ).

Anyway, even if we refuse the conceit that fiction can be set in our reality - as uninteresting as that is - I don't understand how showing us the Head-Beings in modern-day NYC changes anything. Do you contend that when the viewer sees that scene they cannot help but create a separation between our reality and the reality of the show?

[Ashara]

Quote

Firefly never got the chance to upset the fans and fail to deliver on storythreads (it did have loose ends but it was cancelled so not their fault). I'm sure if it had been given longer some of the fans would inevitably get pissed off or start claiming it all went downhill after season 3. The world of Firefly did have a whole load of spin-off potential though, whereas BSG is surprisingly limited. I guess that's what happens when you wipe-out all of civilization and reduce them to a convoy on the run though

Noddy-nod, though BSG did not piss me off yet any. There were weaker episodes throughout, but so far even season 4.5 offered the wild ride experiences that I came to expect from the series. Though yep, I have a feeling it is going downhill from here. We've just saw the last episode on disk 2, the one that followed the 2-parter, and despite seeing Six suffer (one of little joys of my life) it had leads that made me think the downhill thoughts.... but not pissed off yet, no.

[mcbigski]

denstorebog, on 16 March 2010 - 08:26 PM, said:

Any other ideas for premises?

If Ron Moore had just used my idea of ending the series by crashing Galactica into the Planet of the Apes, except overrun by simian looking Cylons, then we'd still have all sorts of potential for hijinks.

As it is, I'm having a hard time coming up with some sort of series idea, but the impression I got from the report on this was that it was likely to be a one-off anyway ("We're sitting down with (executive producer) Ron Moore and his team. It would not necessarily be a traditional series".)

[Mack Kilimaro]

Paddy, on 18 March 2010 - 04:56 AM, said:

Anyway, even if we refuse the conceit that fiction can be set in our reality - as uninteresting as that is - I don't understand how showing us the Head-Beings in modern-day NYC changes anything. Do you contend that when the viewer sees that scene they cannot help but create a separation between our reality and the reality of the show?

I don't even think we need to refuse the conceit that fiction can be set in our reality. That takes a certain suspension of disbelief, though, and the way that the show actually ended made it impossible to maintain that suspension. I realize that we're talking a matter of relativity here and that others may have a different opinion. For me, it's easier to continue to believe that there's a secret alien spaceship waiting to be unearthed than it is for me to believe that there are head-gods or whatever the hell walking through the world.

[Caligula_K]

Mack Kilimaro, on 18 March 2010 - 10:32 AM, said:

I don't even think we need to refuse the conceit that fiction can be set in our reality. That takes a certain suspension of disbelief, though, and the way that the show actually ended made it impossible to maintain that suspension. I realize that we're talking a matter of relativity here and that others may have a different opinion. For me, it's easier to continue to believe that there's a secret alien spaceship waiting to be unearthed than it is for me to believe that there are head-gods or whatever the hell walking through the world.

Not to mention that the exact same species managed to evolve on two different planets, and despite the fact that there were already humans around Hera managed to become mitochondrial Eve. My problem with the ending is just mainly how little thought they put into it, from everyone suddenly deciding to give up all technology to characters just randomly deciding to leave and everyone being okay with it.

[red snow]

Caligula_K, on 18 March 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

Not to mention that the exact same species managed to evolve on two different planets, and despite the fact that there were already humans around Hera managed to become mitochondrial Eve. My problem with the ending is just mainly how little thought they put into it, from everyone suddenly deciding to give up all technology to characters just randomly deciding to leave and everyone being okay with it.

And thanks to Caprica it seems that animals also manged to co-evolve on different planets too. It's one of those scenarios where I really wish they had just used time-travel - for a moment it looked like that's where they were going with the anomaly in the finale but alas no. I'm not sure when the caucasian sub-race turned up in human history but it's a little worrying how most of the BSG cast are of caucasian descent. That could be up for some dubious interpretations.

[Poobah]

red snow, on 18 March 2010 - 11:02 AM, said:

And thanks to Caprica it seems that animals also manged to co-evolve on different planets too. It's one of those scenarios where I really wish they had just used time-travel - for a moment it looked like that's where they were going with the anomaly in the finale but alas no. I'm not sure when the caucasian sub-race turned up in human history but it's a little worrying how most of the BSG cast are of caucasian descent. That could be up for some dubious interpretations.

In fairness Hera is the daughter of a woman (cylon) played by an actress who I believe is of Korean descent. I agree there are an large number of caucasians in the cast but I think any 'dubious interpretations' of that are sorely misguided.

[Grendalen]

The best idea I'm coming up with is to set it in Earth's far future and explore the question of whether or not it has to happen again. "It" referring to the Cylons and the splintering that led to the 13 colonies. So pretty much show us what happened to Kobol except with our Earth.

[red snow]

Poobah, on 18 March 2010 - 11:10 AM, said:

In fairness Hera is the daughter of a woman (cylon) played by an actress who I believe is of Korean descent. I agree there are an large number of caucasians in the cast but I think any 'dubious interpretations' of that are sorely misguided.

Yeah, it would be pretty stupid to reference the ending of BSG as evidence of superiority. The fact that the fleet would be a genetic bottleneck would ensure all the 12 tribe races were pretty mixed up again. In fact it's known that humanity did go through such a bottleneck so maybe the fleet brought caprican flu with them wiped out all of the indigenous humans and we are all descended from the BSG cast

Grendalen : I agree that setting it in the far flung future for another cycle will give the creators the greatest amount of freedom.

[Harry the Heir]

red snow, on 18 March 2010 - 12:16 PM, said:

I agree that setting it in the far flung future for another cycle will give the creators the greatest amount of freedom.

Freedom, sure, but to what purpose? What's the point of doing another BSG spin-off if the show is going to jettison almost all of the mythos to do so? They might as well get Ron Moore to write a series in an entirely new universe.

[Grendalen]

Peter Dyckman-Campbell, on 18 March 2010 - 12:26 PM, said:

Freedom, sure, but to what purpose? What's the point of doing another BSG spin-off if the show is going to jettison almost all of the mythos to do so? They might as well get Ron Moore to write a series in an entirely new universe.

I'm of the opinion that "All this has happened before..." makes it very easy for them to recreate the already established mythos. :shrug: