The Judging Eye VII

[Borque]

These would all be contrary to real-world genetics anyway, as in the real world all of those things are recessive since they imply a lack of pigment instead of the presence of white/blue pigment. Pigment + pigment = pigment. Pigment + no pigment = pigment.

Not at all.

An allele that affects the pigment production would do it. Say, for example, it changes the pigment production process so that it produces midochlorians instead of pigment. It's recessive counterpart does nothing. The result would be the same.

Also - Mimara's father is obviously Shaeönanra. He's Norsirai.

[Amun]

So, last night I statrted reading a fictional (non-biblical) account of the life and death of Jesus, and I read the hill on which he was crucified was called Golgotha. I knew this before, but it was one of those things I had forgotten until I read it.

Bakker seems to like to play with words, for example Inri Sejenus. Inri is the Latin abbreviation supposedly nailed above Jesus' head and Sejenus is basically Jesus' name scrambled with an extra e and n. He likes to play with historical events and stories as well. Kellhus being about the same age Jesus is supposed to be when he began his teachings. The prophet Angeshrael sacrificing his son, similar to Abraham almost sacrificing his son (sacrificing the son is found in the TTT glossary under Mount Kinsureah).

Back to my point. I couldn't help but notice there was a similarity between Golgotha and Golgotterath. Take out the "tter" and flip the r and a and you have Golgotha. Normally I'm not the kind of person to focus lettering like this since it kind of comes off as crackpot-ish, but there is precedent in the text with Sejenus.

I know Kellhus already went through the dying (almost) and the "resurrection" in the Warrior Prophet, but maybe at the end of the Aspect-Emperor trilogy, once the Great Ordeal reaches Golgotterath, Kellhus is killed and resurrected. You know, either as the God or as the No-God, whichever theory is correct about Kellhus' true nature. Or, for those who believe that Kellhus will become the No-God or at least join the Consult, where Golgotha was the place where Jesus was sacrificed to save the souls of the world, Golgotterath will be where Kellhus sacrifices the world to save his soul.

Or it may mean nothing and Bakker just came up with Golgotterath as an awesome "evil fortress" name and means nothing to the overall events of the story.

[Maithanet]

So, last night I statrted reading a fictional (non-biblical) account of the life and death of Jesus, and I read the hill on which he was crucified was called Golgotha. I knew this before, but it was one of those things I had forgotten until I read it.

Back to my point. I couldn't help but notice there was a similarity between Golgotha and Golgotterath. Take out the "tter" and flip the r and a and you have Golgotha. Normally I'm not the kind of person to focus lettering like this since it kind of comes off as crackpot-ish, but there is precedent in the text with Sejenus.

I know Kellhus already went through the dying (almost) and the "resurrection" in the Warrior Prophet, but maybe at the end of the Aspect-Emperor trilogy, once the Great Ordeal reaches Golgotterath, Kellhus is killed and resurrected. You know, either as the God or as the No-God, whichever theory is correct about Kellhus' true nature. Or, for those who believe that Kellhus will become the No-God or at least join the Consult, where Golgotha was the place where Jesus was sacrificed to save the souls of the world, Golgotterath will be where Kellhus sacrifices the world to save his soul.

Or it may mean nothing and Bakker just came up with Golgotterath as an awesome "evil fortress" name and means nothing to the overall events of the story.

Interesting food for thought, good post.

I'm not really too knowledgeable about the Resurrection story, but I know that Jesus went to hell for (six?) days before his resurrection. I could see some sort of parallel between that and the No-God's return (which I expect will be a much shorter stay than the first go-round).

[jurble]

Kellhus has been to hell for real, and he came back with demon heads, which he has tied to his belt. He kicked hell's ass.

[Amun]

Interesting food for thought, good post.

I'm not really too knowledgeable about the Resurrection story, but I know that Jesus went to hell for (six?) days before his resurrection. I could see some sort of parallel between that and the No-God's return (which I expect will be a much shorter stay than the first go-round).

I think it was three days between Jesus' death and the resurrection, and I think the story of Jesus going to hell is a later story, I don't know if there is direct biblical references to it or not. Doesn't mean Bakker wouldn't use it though.

Except what Jurble said is right about hell, I guess. That was one of the most puzzling parts of the Judging Eye for me. Is Kellhus using some sort of daimotic sorcery? We just get these description of demon heads and the stories from Kellhus' followers about how he ha entered the outside, but no conformation about how he did any of this. God powers? Sorcery? I would personally lean toward sorcery right now, but with all of the Yatwer stuff, we know the gods can be pretty insistent on influencing worldy events.

[Nerdanel]

Not at all.

An allele that affects the pigment production would do it. Say, for example, it changes the pigment production process so that it produces midochlorians instead of pigment. It's recessive counterpart does nothing. The result would be the same.

Also - Mimara's father is obviously Shaeönanra. He's Norsirai.

Hmmm... so you are saying Kellhus has oculocutaneous albinism? Most albinism variants are recessive, but the main albinism page says that rare dominant ones do exist. Kellhus's albinism also would have to be a variety that doesn't lead to eye problems since bad eyesight would greatly hinder one's chances of getting to reproduce in Ishuäl. There doesn't appear to be any suitable known type though, or at least a type widespread enough to get on the list.

Still, it... could work, I suppose. The founder effect would be strong in such a small population as the Dûnyain. I'm not sure if that explanation is superior to the more mystical metaphysics of inheritance in this case, though.

[Tears of Lys]

Kellhus has been to hell for real, and he came back with demon heads, which he has tied to his belt. He kicked hell's ass.

Do we know this for sure? Demon head accessories really prove nothing. We've seen how they can be summoned. Couldn't he have picked up a few that way and is now trading on the bad-assedness of having them on his tool belt?

[lokisnow]

yeah I noticed the Golgotha/Golgotteranth connection right away, but interesting thought about Kell sacrificing the world to save his soul. Sounds very bakkerish.

[Maithanet]

yeah I noticed the Golgotha/Golgotteranth connection right away, but interesting thought about Kell sacrificing the world to save his soul. Sounds very bakkerish.

It's certainly an interesting possibility in the stew of "what the hell is Kellhus going to do?" However, if he actually is planning to join up with the Consult to shut the outside, then why did he kill Moenghus? What was that entire internal monologue about the string of planned disasters, etc? Surely he could have incorporated Moe into his schemes and used him to more completely control the Fanim?

I feel like it doesn't really add up. I'm holding out hope that this most-depressing of endings isn't where Bakker is going.

On the Hell and Back issue - We really don't know enough about Hell to say much of anything. It is possible he took some of his most loyal men on an expedition there for some reason. However, even if that happens, it is unclear if the rules are the same wrt when you die an go to hell (I suspect they would not be, or the powerful sorcerers dying in droves during the first apocolypse coudl have taken over the place). It is also possible that nothing of the sort has happened, and Kellhus has only encountered a few Diamotic sorcerers at this point, and he kept their demons as trophies.

[lokisnow]

well Kell may not sacrifice the world to save his soul, but he may need to sacrifice the world in order to kill The God and become the God.

[Rhadamanth]

No, no. Kellhus just needs to find the perfect song and sing it at the perfect pitch, that's why he sent out all those Tinkers to find it. Once they find the song, they tell him, he sings it and becomes God and the Dragon is reborn. Oh wait, got the stories mixed up again, never mind.

[Darzin]

Well the title of the third trilogy is supposed to be a spioler and since all the prior titles have been based on Kellhus' status, Prince of Nothing and now Aspect Emperor, I wonder if the third will be "the God" or maybe "A God" or maybe even the "No-God" and yes Kellhus sacrificing the World to save his soul does sound tempting but seems a little to obvious and like Maithanet said if he planned on doing this he would'nt have killed Moenghus as the reason he did was so Moenghus did'nt execute such a plan once he relized he was dammned.

This means he thinks he can aviod damnation some other way and as I don't think he can simply decree it by being a Prophet he has to do something else when he gets to Golgotteranth and I think alot of it will depend on what the No-God is which wer're no entirely sure I do think he may try to exercise Gods will in truth by somehow combing the Pushke and the Gnosis but other then that I dunno I do think he might end up as the God in truth and create and objective rational realty from the objectivley irrational reality that currently exists.

[lokisnow]

I dunno I do think he might end up as the God in truth and create and objective rational realty from the objectivley irrational reality that currently exists.

That would explain why we have this inconveniently rational and objective world we have to live in! It's all Kellhus' fault we don't have parabolas of magic and demons, damnation and gods.

dammit, Kellhus.

[jurble]

That would explain why we have this inconveniently rational and objective world we have to live in! It's all Kellhus' fault we don't have parabolas of magic and demons, damnation and gods.

dammit, Kellhus.

Bah, as soon as I figure out how to mix and match parts of different 'worlds' with our own, I shall become as a God. Certainly, there is an alternate world where the series of events leading to the formation of Earth produced a mostly volcanic hell-planet. I will be able to switch the air in front of me, with lava from that realm!

[Darzin]

That would explain why we have this inconveniently rational and objective world we have to live in! It's all Kellhus' fault we don't have parabolas of magic and demons, damnation and gods.

dammit, Kellhus.

Or Hovercars we don't have any of those either :(

[red snow]

Certainly, there is an alternate world where the series of events leading to the formation of Earth produced a mostly volcanic hell-planet.

Waiting to get a flight home a week later than scheduled has me thinking I may have already found that world :)

Kellhus creating the "rational" reality of our world would definitely be a more interesting spin than the old, "It was all in our ancient past" trope.

[Spastic Plastic]

When I'm reading the PON books, there are so few descriptions of things.

Can someone help me visualize what the locations look like? For example, all we know about the Andiamine Heights its that they're...high. And we know pretty much nothing of how places like Sakarpus and Kuniuri look like.

[Rhadamanth]

The only thing I remember is the descriptions when Kelmomas is running around in TJE and the parts when Xerius has to meet with Maithanet. Don't have my copies here though so I can't elaborate.

[Old Nan]

Bakker seems to prefer fragmented descriptions that have to be pieced together to form a coherent whole to a segregated omniscient-description/social-interaction approach. But that isn't to say there is no information given. The Andiamine Heights, TDtCB tells us, is a palace complex in the "seaward quarter" of Momemn, divided into terraced levels corresponding to the status of the people within; at the summit is the imperial audience hall, an open-backed chamber, and the Privy Garden, where an ivory-paneled hall leads onto paved lanes and lawns and plots of hibiscus, lotus, and aromatic shrubs; at the center is a circular pool, from which radiate lines of cypress and tamarisk trees. The higher levels give a panoramic view of every other district of the city and the other quarters of the imperial precincts directly below, and the levels themselves are divided into "gardens, compounds, and colonnades," hundreds of grottoes situated among marble columns. Choirs and incense and attractive slaves are present to awe visitors.

There are various descriptions interspersed in the Xerius/Conphas/Achamian/Kellhus POVs of The Prince of Nothing, and somewhat more in the more numerous Momemn POVs of TJE, but these tend to be sparse. Oh, a lacquered table, you don't say! He's certainly nothing like Jordan with fashion or Martin with food.

[jurble]

Well, I imagine the Andiamine Heights as looking extremely Byzantine with dome and shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_architecture In my mind I think : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Osiosloukas.JPG just bigger and made of marble and expensive shit and like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

And Sakarpus, Atyersus, Kuniuri and anything ancient North related I imagine Ancient Egyptian style architecture, basic geometric forms, held up by really thick columns. No arches, no domes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_egyptian_architecture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hypostyle_hall,_Karnak_temple.jpg - the interiors look like that, except you know, with a roof. Lots of ancient Egyptian shit no longer has a roof cuz that's the first thing to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Courtyard_Amenhotep_III.JPG

Also maybe some http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ancient_ziggurat_at_Ali_Air_Base_Iraq_2005.jpg thrown in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Choghazanbil2.jpg

I imagine Atyersus as looking like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Choghazanbil2.jpg on the outside, and like the ancient Egyptian style on the inside.