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Recommend books to a hater


fall787

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I'm curious that you love Martin yet hate Hobb, since to me they seem very similar writers in style (Martin's a little shallower and funnier, with more traditional action and excitement; Hobb's more character-focused). It might be easier for us to recommend things if you told us what the important differences were that produced this sharp divergence in reactions?

Is Hobb: too serious; too character-focused; too slow-paced; too fantastic; too annoying in its choice of main character (in which case there's a chance you might like Liveships, as it's 3rd person, with a variety of characters) - what?

EDIT: incidentally, I'm a 'pre-hater'. Most of the series you mention I haven't even tried, because they sound either boring or annoying from their descriptions (although a few I do intend to get around to trying eventually).

Of your list, I've only read the Belgariad (loved it as a child, but I think it would be horrible to an adult), Wheel of Time (loved it briefly because it offered dimesnions not found in TSR - but ASOIAF does everything WoT does and better), Hobb (really like), Pratchett (I agree that the tone gets repetitive in the early and late books, but some of his middle books are masterpieces - my favourites would probably be Pyramids, Reaper Man, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Hogfather, Small Gods and Night Watch - the tone does differ between books and over time, but yes, they're not designed to be all read together), LOTR, and ASOIAF. And Covenant - I liked elements of it, particularly the second series, though I'm reluctant to try to re-read.

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You could be one of those people who like ASOIAF but don't like genre fiction (i.e. fantasy) in general. They exist. Even on this board. Some months I think I'm one of them :)

Um, that would be me. ASOIAF and LOTR are the only fantasy that I've ever enjoyed. After I don't even know how many "meh" reads, I gave up. Read something else, dude. Get a library card. Wonderful little buildings libraries are.

Edit: cause I got my letters mixed up

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I'm curious that you love Martin yet hate Hobb, since to me they seem very similar writers in style (Martin's a little shallower and funnier, with more traditional action and excitement; Hobb's more character-focused). It might be easier for us to recommend things if you told us what the important differences were that produced this sharp divergence in reactions?

Is Hobb: too serious; too character-focused; too slow-paced; too fantastic; too annoying in its choice of main character (in which case there's a chance you might like Liveships, as it's 3rd person, with a variety of characters) - what?

This is curious, because I often see recommendations of Hobbs as replies to the common "What's like ASOIAF?".

I honestly don't get it. Assassin's Apprentice is NOTHING like ASOIAF. There is none of the complexity in antagonists, none of the multi-faceted character views, no conflicts spanning nations and continents. AA is a simple coming of age story that drags on and on with no action or developments we've come to love in ASOIAF. Almost all the conflict is internal. Which isn't bad. Just not my cup of tea, and certainly nothing like ASOIAF (which has a good deal of internal conflict as well, but we don't have Jon being emo about how he shouldn't be with Ygritte - it's much more subtle and has no less impact). In AA you have the protagonist and some dumbass prince. That's all.

On another note, I rarely give authors a second choice. No, I won't read Malazan because it "gets better". I don't need to read Twilight to know I don't want to read it. You either hook me or you don't - and if you don't, I am not going to risk spending time/money on your book again - that's sort of my principle.

It does seem like the solution is to read anything but fantasy - and I am already doing that. Sorry - I was unclear in the title, meaning that I wanted fantasy recommendations.

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It does seem like the solution is to read anything but fantasy - and I am already doing that. Sorry - I was unclear in the title, meaning that I wanted fantasy recommendations.

You sure about that? Based on the books mentioned and what you've said in response, it seems you want epic fantasy recommendations. There's a whole slew of non-epic fantasies that I think are fascinating and wonderful, but if all you want is some sort of sweeping secondary-world fantasy, then your options are limited in the English language.

Or you could try some of Fritz Leiber's writing.

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You sure about that? Based on the books mentioned and what you've said in response, it seems you want epic fantasy recommendations. There's a whole slew of non-epic fantasies that I think are fascinating and wonderful, but if all you want is some sort of sweeping secondary-world fantasy, then your options are limited in the English language.

Or you could try some of Fritz Leiber's writing.

There is fantasy besides epic fantasy? Har har. As I said, I am open to reading widely, and just maybe non-epic fantasy is what I am looking for. Do feel free to leave any recommendations, I am checking them all out on amazon and going from there.

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Try Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Feels like it belongs somewhere under the banner of epic fantasy while also being a very "literary" narrative. Second the Mieville suggestion. His Bas-Lag books have a way of feeling familiar yet completely different. Or maybe really switch things up and try David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas for a taste of SF/F packaged as mainstream lit.

If none of those work out I'd honestly suggest you quit looking for stuff like Ice and Fire and simply reread Ice and Fire.

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I too had problems with everything I tried to read after ASOIAF, but unlike fall787 actually liked Abercombie (at least first half of first book) so much that I'm actually trying to read it as slowly as possible, even waiting for "right" moment to read it, and only chapter at a time :rolleyes: I like Abercombie as his characterization is very much like Martin's, and only difference between them is what shade of gray they are painted with.

Whoever said Bernard Cornwell might popped up with the right answer for you. Grab yourself Warlord Chronicles or Archer's Tale and see how you like those two.

I adored them :thumbsup:

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Go read Paul Kearney, now!

I too am a self proclaimed hater. I've never understood the idea of 'keep reading and it will get better'. If it's crap now it will probably be crap later.

I tried to test this theory Erikson. Everyone on Wotmania kept saying 'keep reading, it will get better' I got up to 'Midnight Tides' (which was alright) and had to give it up. Just seemed to me that that type of mindset is a time suck, waste of time.

Kearney however has been consistently great no matter what of his i've read. Just as gritty as GRRM, and written in a way that will totally wrap you up.

I understand the hate though. Anytime someone recommends something and refers to it as 'speculative fiction' i write it off. Anytime Darrel K Sweet is on the cover i don't read it. I refuse to read any vampire porn. Hell, now that i think about it i've got a lot of hate in my heart.

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Aside of LotR and ASOIAF, the "speculative fiction" books I like the best, and that have meant the most to me, are the ones that cannot be categorized very neatly as either fantasy or science fiction. Try:

George Orwell's 1984

Aldous Huxley's Brave New World

A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller,

or two fairly recent works,

The Road by Cormac McCarthy

The Gone-Away World by Nick Harkaway

All these books just really blew me away, just like LotR and ASOIAF did. Probably even more than ASOIAF did. I also second the China Mieville recommendations. He's a great writer. It might also be helpful if you wrote what exactly it is about ASOIAF that you like so much.

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If the only Gaiman you've ever read is Neverwhere, you might try something else like American Gods or Stardust or even Good Omens (with Terry Pratchet). Neverwhere can be a little dense at times. It started out as a teleplay I think for a TV show. They made a few episodes, not sure if they finished it, and then Gaiman novelized the story and published it to finish out the tale. That said I still enjoyed Neverwhere, it's just not on a level with American Gods.

I also agree with the poster that mentioned Bernard Cornwell. His Saxon Chronicles tell the story of Alfred the Great and Warlord Chronicles which reimagines the story of King Arthur. Both are excellent, but do not have multi-character POV's. Instead the focus in on one character, in each case a warrior in the Kings' warband, and tell the tale through his eyes.

You might also try Tad Williams Shadowmarch. That series as much more of the character hopping like a Martin book.

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There is fantasy besides epic fantasy? Har har. As I said, I am open to reading widely, and just maybe non-epic fantasy is what I am looking for. Do feel free to leave any recommendations, I am checking them all out on amazon and going from there.

OK, now that I think I understand you better, here are a few non-epics that might be of interest:

Steve Erickson, Arc d'X

Toby Barlow, Sharp Teeth (it's in verse, I ought to note)

Anything by Zoran Živković that you can find

Second the Wolfe suggestions, would add Latro in the Mist to that - combination of Mediterranean mythos, a man who's cursed to wake up forgetting the days before, and a few other mysteries.

Anything by Jeffrey Ford

Anything by Jeff VanderMeer, but start with City of Saints and Madmen

Thomas Glavinic, Night Work

Anything by Angela Carter

Anything by Edward Whittemore

And most anything by China Miéville as well

None of those, with the possible exception of Wolfe, are anywhere near what you listed as hating. Maybe a few you could enjoy.

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You know, I think I have more in common with the author of this thread than with most people on the board :D

Yeah, kinda the same. I thought Scott Lynch was entertaining but mediocre, and I haven't re-read it since the first time. I find The Name of the Wind impossible to get through - haven't managed to finish the book, and don't like it much. Same with Malazan, etc.

I personally wouldn't recommend Bernard Cornwell's Anglo-Saxon stuff, mainly because I read his Arthur trilogy and found all the characters flat as cardboard, and the dialogue really bad. (His non-Arthurian fiction might be better though, I haven't read it.) If you are in the mood for Arthurian fiction, try Mary Stewart's Merlin trilogy. She bases her story (told from Merlin's perspective) on the old Welsh legends instead of the later French ones, which is refreshing. The first book is The Crystal Cave, I believe. I think Mary Stewart's retelling is awesome because:

1) Beautiful, beautiful prose

2) Believable characterization - this isn't Marion Zimmer Bradley bullshit, but the real deal

3) Interesting original twists that give the old tale a certain freshness

4) Did I mention the mouthwatering prose?

I agree on the China Mieville recommendation. And if you do read Kay, don't read The Fionavar Tapestry - too derivative of Tolkien. But his other books are really good.

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Actually I pretty much agree with the OP. There's a lot of mediocre genre stuff that gets highly rated here but I've usually been disappointed. My only disagreement would be that Pratchett got a lot better after the first few and I really like him, but it is a tongue-in-cheek parody throughout.

I'd echo suggestions of Gaiman (American Gods is by far his best, followed by his short stories, his other novels are weaker but still ok: Anansi Boys, Neverwhere, Stardust).

It sounds like I should try Hobb and Kearney.

Scott Lynch was entertaining in the first book, but you have to struggle to ignore how annoyingly "just so" it all goes. The second one just wore me down further. Despite my user name, the Malazan series wasn't great and I stopped after four or five books. PoN was boring and predictable (abandoned after 200 pages), Guy Gavriel Kay has a nice prose style but is boring and overly romantic, DT was really only good in 1 and 4. LOTR was fine as kid, as were a few others, but too limited now. WoT tempted me in with the grand scope and world-building, but just wasted many hours of my life. Covenant was terrible in the First Chronicles and I couldn't even touch anything further.

The real problem is that ~90% of any randomly picked up work of fiction is bleh. Taste must be very subjective in books.

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This is curious, because I often see recommendations of Hobbs as replies to the common "What's like ASOIAF?".

I honestly don't get it. Assassin's Apprentice is NOTHING like ASOIAF. There is none of the complexity in antagonists,

I'd argue that Regal WAS quite complex, just more subtly so than ASOIAF characters - and one of the virtues of the series is that there's not just one Bad Guy responsible for everything - Regal is only the figurhead
none of the multi-faceted character views,
I think Fitz is at least as multi-faceted as any ASOIAF character
no conflicts spanning nations and continents.
Other than, you know, the main background conflict - Six Duchies vs Outislanders.
AA is a simple coming of age story that drags on and on with no action or developments we've come to love in ASOIAF.
I wouldn't say that at all. I suppose there are some development issues, in that it sets up the character for the next two novels, but it's hardly just about 'coming of age'. And there is action, and there are developments!
Almost all the conflict is internal. Which isn't bad. Just not my cup of tea, and certainly nothing like ASOIAF (which has a good deal of internal conflict as well, but we don't have Jon being emo about how he shouldn't be with Ygritte - it's much more subtle and has no less impact).
I wouldn't say the internal conflict in ASOIAF was 'subtle'. That said, I do agree with the general point.
In AA you have the protagonist and some dumbass prince. That's all.
And lots of other characters. But it is a smaller-scale story, I suppose.

Looking at those complaints, correct me if I'm wrong, but they boil down to: you want a bigger plot with more characters and higher stakes; you want lots of action scenes; you want complex antagonists.

On that ground, you might want to borrow Liveships and give Hobb another chance - it's multiple-POV, the main antagonist is very well-rendered (the antagonist is actually the main character, I think), it's more complicated, and there's a bit more happening. It's still slower, more introspective and smaller than ASOIAF, but it might be more to your tastes than Farseer was.

Off the top of my head, better suggestions might be:

- Feist? Depending on your tastes, there's Riftwar, Serpentwar, and Empire. None of them are near the level of ASOIAF in literary terms, but you might enjoy them. Riftwar and Serpentwar are both massively epic fantasy - Riftwar is more conventional, and not as well-written, and smaller, while Serpentwar is bigger, bloodier, grittier, and less cliche. The Empire Trilogy is usually given as his best work (in collaboration with Janny Wurts) - it's less cliche, has a more interesting (korean/japanese) setting, and is generally better written. However, it's smaller and more introspective - the first book is just about the survival of a single family. That said, the plot does get bigger, and it can't be accused of a lack of action - the second book has a frantic last two-thirds in particular. I'd repeat that none of Feist is at GRRM levels, but it can be better than Dragonlance et al. (It can also be worse - a lot worse! Some of the later and filler books are terrible). Technically, Riftwar should be read first, but if you don't mind starting mid-story (Serpentwar) or having lots of things happening off-screen that you don't understand (Empire) then it doesn't matter. I started with Serpentwar.

- Ash: A Secret History. I seem to pimp this in every thread, because nobody else does (well done person who did in this thread!). It starts out small and historical, but becomes larger and more fantastical as you go through. There's some character development, but it's not heavy on introspection really - the main character is pretty dynamic and no-nonsense. Lots of action scenes. [Other than in a lull in the final third before the climax]. The antagonists get a fair bit of complexity. There's a weird postmoderny secondary plot that at first is off-putting, but ends up working well.

- A Dream of Eagles. Historical fiction about the end of Rome, and apparently King Arthur, though I haven't got to that point yet (though it's clear it's headed that way). For some reason, I really liked the first two books but then didn't read on. [Mental note: move Skystone to top of re-reading pile!] Might be too small-stakes for you, but I think it has the "realistically dark/gritty without resorting to Hollywood" tone that I think you get from Martin or Gentle.

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first off, if dylan fanatic can't find you a book to read that you like, you need to stop reading....

surprised no one's mentioned zelazny. You'll probably hate it, but hey, read lord of light. worst comes to worst, you'll get to bask in the glory of tak of the archives for a little bit before you get pissed off.

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surprised no one's mentioned zelazny. You'll probably hate it, but hey, read lord of light. worst comes to worst, you'll get to bask in the glory of tak of the archives for a little bit before you get pissed off.

I liked the Amber Chronicles.

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