71 replies to this topic

[Azmure]

So Paul Kearney is one of the authors I've been meaning to read for years but never quite got around to. Anyway, after something of a hiatus from reading fantasy, I recently found second-hand copies of all five books in the Monarchies of God series and decided to give them a go. And after ripping through the first four books all I can say is...

Wow.

Kearney rocks. IMHO, the Monarchies of God kicks the crap out of Malazan, WoT and Prince of Nothing, and does so in a fraction of the pages. I've heard that Ships from the West isn't quite as strong as the other four (and I was a bit surprised at how much plot seemed to get wrapped up at the end of The Second Empire) but I can honestly say that barring a catastrophic dip in quality, the Monarchies of God has cemented a place on my favourite epic fantasy list, somewhere not a hundred miles behind ASOIAF and the best of Guy Gavriel Kay.

How did this series go out of print? How didn't it sell squillions? Kearney's prose is more readable and evocative than most, and his characters are top-notch. What was it about the Monarchies of God that didn't click with a broader range of readers, when something like Malazan did? I admit myself puzzled, but I'm just really glad that I finally got around to reading this excellent series. However, I would be interested to hear other opinions, both on the series and on why it didn't become more commercially successful.

Next up, finishing Ships from the West, and then on to the Sea Beggars and the Ten Thousand...

Edited by Azmure, 27 May 2010 - 04:59 AM.

[Astra]

I think he is going to re-write the last book and publish it...sometimes in future.

[Samalander]

Amazon has the 2 omnibus editions of the series (with new covers) as coming out this summer.

[Serious Callers Only]

The power of publicity (or lack thereof)

[Azmure]

Serious Callers Only, on 27 May 2010 - 06:29 AM, said:

The power of publicity (or lack thereof)

I'm guessing this is right. I know the series has a pretty strong reputation in fantasy/SF circles. Hopefully the re-release will reach a wider audience (I just wish the covers were a bit more inspiring).

If anyone here has read the Sea Beggars books, how do they compare to the Monarchies of God? I take it that they don't draw as strongly on real history, but I'm curious as to whether they're set in an equivalent time period (firearms etc. mixed in with the more generic 'medieval' feel of most fantasy). One thing I love about Kearney is how well he writes about ships and the sea, so the Sea Beggars seems like it's something I would enjoy.

[Serious Callers Only]

You might be surprised how much of the Sea Beggars series is on land.

And it's not completed.

I personally liked it better than MoG, but i disliked the pov jumping around there.

[Werthead]

Astra, on 27 May 2010 - 05:05 AM, said:

I think he is going to re-write the last book and publish it...sometimes in future.

'Sometime in the future' being August and September this year. On Kearney's forum you can see the cover art and the new maps that have been completed for it. In fact, Hawkwood and the Kings went off to the printers today.

[Migey]

I must admmit that i have never heared of Paul Kearney, what are the monarchies of god about?

Edit : Wikipedia'd a bit of it and it looks decent.. but can it actually be that good? even for a five book series, the page and word counts are terribly small.

Even if every book ha dan extra 150 pages added to it, and it was turned into a trilogy, it would still be a bit tight... Im going to buy the first one, but how can a book so short really be that good?

Edited by Migey, 27 May 2010 - 09:53 AM.

[Astra]

Werthead, on 27 May 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:

'Sometime in the future' being August and September this year. On Kearney's forum you can see the cover art and the new maps that have been completed for it. In fact, Hawkwood and the Kings went off to the printers today.

I hoped you would bite it and reply with the exact dates
Ta!

[Werthead]

Migey, on 27 May 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

I must admmit that i have never heared of Paul Kearney, what are the monarchies of god about?

Edit : Wikipedia'd a bit of it and it looks decent.. but can it actually be that good? even for a five book series, the page and word counts are terribly small.

Even if every book ha dan extra 150 pages added to it, and it was turned into a trilogy, it would still be a bit tight... Im going to buy the first one, but how can a book so short really be that good?

The combined page count of the five books comes to somewhat longer than The Lord of the Rings, so whilst the individual books are 'short' (although at 250-350 pages they're still the size of normal books, just short by epic fantasy standards) the length of the overall thing is substantial.

As for what it's about, it's about war, power, religion, persecution and the power of myth. Plus several of the most impressively-described and vivid battles ever depicted in epic fantasy.

Spoiler

Also, werewolves!

[Migey]

Well if it has Werthead's stamp of approval, then im definately giving it a shot.

[wolverine]

Migey, on 27 May 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

Edit : Wikipedia'd a bit of it and it looks decent.. but can it actually be that good? even for a five book series, the page and word counts are terribly small.

Even if every book ha dan extra 150 pages added to it, and it was turned into a trilogy, it would still be a bit tight... Im going to buy the first one, but how can a book so short really be that good?

Are you serious? Have you ever heard of The Old Man and the Sea? Of Mice and Men?

Since when is length THE indication of quality?


Anyhow, I really liked the series but would put it behind WoT, PoN, ASOIF and many other stand alone books. The series is interesting, but the characters lack a little development. It draws many parallels to events in actual history that are fun to explore.

I would give it about a 4.5/5

[werewolfv2]

Migey, on 27 May 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

Edit : Wikipedia'd a bit of it and it looks decent.. but can it actually be that good?

yes, yes it can

[Old Nan]

Quote

Since when is length THE indication of quality?

It's not, but it's often a good proxy for enjoyability in storytelling. The alternatives are limitation in scope; a sort of distortion of characterization by tampering with pace (my absolute least favorite aspect of GRRM's writing is this soap-operatic tempo); and sandblasting the story into a austere modern/postmodern intellectual exercise. The latter may be "great literature," but the only one of the three that doesn't make the story less enjoyable is the first, which is a diminution of another sort.

wolverine, on 27 May 2010 - 11:37 AM, said:

Are you serious? Have you ever heard of The Old Man and the Sea?

Give me Moby-Dick any day over this. Hemingway always gives me a distinctive feeling that I've been masturbated upon.

[Horiötha]

I read them, I liked them, but I don't think they were the greatest thing EVER. But they were definitely better than most. My main problem is, I have no idea what's going on in the last book, everyone has switched sides! EVERYONE! Even the dialogue only barely explains how the hell this all happened.

Oh and Fimbria is badass.

Edited by Jurble, 27 May 2010 - 04:50 PM.

[Werthead]

Jurble, on 27 May 2010 - 04:47 PM, said:

I read them, I liked them, but I don't think they were the greatest thing EVER. But they were definitely better than most. My main problem is, I have no idea what's going on in the last book, everyone has switched sides! EVERYONE! Even the dialogue only barely explains how the hell this all happened.

Oh and Fimbria is badass.

Everyone?

Spoiler

Hebrion, Astarac and Torunna remain allied, as in the first four books, and the other Normannian kingdoms are under the thumb of the Church (allied to the Western Continent folk), as before. The only side-switching is that the Merduks have signed a peace treaty and established a new capital at Aekir, but that happened in Book 4 IIRC.

But agreed that more clarification was needed on this point. Hopefully the new edition will do this.

[Horiötha]

I mean

Spoiler

Bardolin, I never got why he went evil. And I know that Aruan's plans to make all the magic people join the Church were explained, but I still don't get it. The Church kills all of you, and then offers you to join its armies later! Of course you'll do it!

[Juba]

I've always been puzzled by the lack of success of the Monarchies of God as well. And yeah, Mazatlan and the Prince of Nothing are both series whose high praise on this board has always amazed me, especially as they are often recommended as being similar in style to Martin's work.

That said, I put off reading the final book in Monarchies after hearing it wasn't completed and edited to Kearney's liking and that this would be rectified in the future omnibus.

The Sea Beggars, however, strikes me as a much more mainstream fantasy, and I abandoned it after beginning the second book. But Monarchies is great stuff and a must for anyone who is a fan of Martin's prose style, themes, and characterization, which are quite similar in my opinion.

[Gigei]

I have read Sea Beggars and it is topnotch. I thought Ran's boardname was from the series?

I was totally devastated when I found out it was unfinished and would remain so for a loooong time.

Quote

That said, I put off reading the final book in Monarchies after hearing it wasn't completed and edited to Kearney's liking and that this would be rectified in the future omnibus.

Not reading Monarchies until it is done. I just couldn't bear it again...

[Werthead]

I've said in the past that Monarchies is ASoIaF with guns, a much narrower focus (arguably only 3 major POVs and a few smaller ones) and a much faster pace. The faster pace definitely effects some things, and characterisation is not as good as Martin's simply because Kearney hasn't got the page count and time to really flesh out the characters (although Corfe in particular is a very interesteing protagonist). It is much better than most epic fantasy, however.

Ran's had his boardname since long before The Mark of Ran was published, which was only in 2004 IIRC.

Work on getting the Sea Beggars publication rights back from Bantam UK is ongoing, I believe.