The Long Price Quartet

[Foreverlad]

It's funny, but that's not really what the numbers show. People (apparently) become fans of projects more than of authors. In my circles, it's called the Donaldson Problem after something Stephen R. Donaldson is alleged to have said after The Mirror of Her Dreams / A Man Rides Through sold massively less than Thomas Covenant, and The Gap Into sold a whole bunch less than *that*. It went something like "I thought I had a hundred thousand Stephen R. Donaldson fans. It turned out I had a hundred thousand Thomas Covenant fans." (caveat: I don't know that he ever actually said that.)

I guess that's understandable. Outside of literature, I can see Joss Whedon having suffered the same thing with Firefly and Dollhouse. The cult could have followed him from Buffy onward, but ultimately, his latter Fox shows had to survive based on their own merits, name just wasn't enough. Of course, there are always other factors at play, advertising, time slots, etc. but what you say does make sense for novels and stories that require much more of a person's time. Readers may feel beholden to a series (Wheel of Time post Jordan, for example), but it doesn't mean they'll automatically follow the author out (Sanderson's own projects).

If it's any consolation, you're stuck with me!

[Eponine]

It's been my experience that liking one book/series by an author doesn't mean that I'll like their other works. I'm not a big fan of Wild Cards. I like Donaldson's short stories, but think Mirror of Her Dreams is the worst book ever written. I think that Sandman is superior to anything else by Gaiman. I don't even follow GRRM's short stories when they come out, although I do like most of the ones he's written, in fact I wish they didn't all seem to be in anthologies. So I've learned not to pick up a novel just because a certain person wrote it. I wait until I can read a review and hear what boarders say about it.

However, that extract sold me on reading Dragon's Path when it comes out. I'm not usually a fan of epic fantasy, so something about it would have had to catch my attention in a positive way. I read Name of the Wind because of what Rothfuss wrote for the cage match thing. And I read Neuromancer because the author was in Denver. So a bit of extra author effort or appearance will influence me a good deal.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

It's funny, but that's not really what the numbers show. People (apparently) become fans of projects more than of authors. In my circles, it's called the Donaldson Problem after something Stephen R. Donaldson is alleged to have said after The Mirror of Her Dreams / A Man Rides Through sold massively less than Thomas Covenant, and The Gap Into sold a whole bunch less than *that*. It went something like "I thought I had a hundred thousand Stephen R. Donaldson fans. It turned out I had a hundred thousand Thomas Covenant fans." (caveat: I don't know that he ever actually said that.)

Thank for this exceptionally insightful look into the world of fiction experienced by authors. :stunned:

I cannot help but wonder then if it is the EPIC MULTIVOLUME SAGA common in sci-fi/fantasy writing contributes to this phenomenon. If there were indeed more speculative fiction authors writing standalone novels, do you think people would be more invested in authors as opposed to projects?

[red snow]

I can understand how different series by the same author can sell less than their "title series" but I still wonder whether they sell more/less by adding a different name to them? eg would Donaldson have sold even less if people hadn't thought "it's by that Thomas Covenant guy"? I'd argue that the only risk is that in the long term it may damage the sales of the "title series" if the other one is universally hated.

This kind of thing happens all the time in comics. You can have your "A-list" writers on X-men, Batman, Avengers etc and then they try a creator owned title or even a less well known superhero and the sales are only 10% (or less) of the well known title. So I can see how the same thing could happen in SFF too.

I think Dollhouse probably made it to season 2 thanks mainly to the buffy/firefly fans but I agree that there was still probably a large drop-off from either fanbase into Dollhouse. Using comics again, Whedon had massive success with "X-men" only to follow it up with a largely ignored "runaways" 6 parter (delay issues should have cancelled out as X-men had them too) - then he went on to write a Buffy season 8 comic and it was mega-successful (especially for Dark Horse comics).

[mormont]

By comparison, I've heard some analysis of Walter Jon Williams -- who is for my money one of the most consistently solid authors in the field -- and why he doesn't own the world outright. That one went like this: You don't know what a Walter Jon Williams novels is going to be like. It could be post-singularity, it could be high space opera, if could be near-future techno-thriller, it could be old school cyberpunk, it could be military space opera, it could be regionalist New Mexican literary SF, it could be New Weird. The man's done it all. And so, if you're in the mood for military space opera, you reach for someone who does that -- Bujold or Weber come to mind -- instead of Williams, even though Dread Empire's Fall is a freaking brilliant set of books.

Damn right on both counts. :)

Ironically I love everything Donaldson's written except Thomas Covenant.

[RaceBannon42]

Well even here at Westeros where we tend to pride ourselves on our collective openmindedness, had a decent size thread about the fact that Richard Morgan needs to go back to writing Sci-Fi. Would the Steel Remains have been better recieved if written under a pseudonym? Would it have sold less? Interesting questions to argue.

Also I really need to make some time to read Leviathan Wept. Its sitting in my car at the moment. Maybe I'll start it during lunch.

[Inigima]

To continue the Donaldson tangent, I thought the Covenant series was exceptional, but only for the concepts, not the story. The story felt shockingly generic and cliché, but it's not every day your protagonist is an

asshole leper rapist with deep-seated psychological issues whose entire story arc may or may not actually exist and whom you sometimes feel you should be rooting against.

[red snow]

Well even here at Westeros where we tend to pride ourselves on our collective openmindedness, had a decent size thread about the fact that Richard Morgan needs to go back to writing Sci-Fi. Would the Steel Remains have been better recieved if written under a pseudonym? Would it have sold less? Interesting questions to argue.

I'd hazard a guess that it may have been better received (by Morgan fans) if under a pseudoym but it would have sold a shit-load less. I'd rather it gets a harsh review and we get to see the second book than not at all. Which was my earlier point of once you have a big hit (which I think the Kovacs series are) then you may as well cash in on your name.

Even if he had used a Pseudonym most people would have recognised his style, or accused him of being a Morgan rip-off. I haven't read Daniel's other works (other than the shared Hunter's run) so I don't know how recognisable his writing is across pseudonyms.

[Jebus]

Going back to the original premise of the thread, I'm constantly trying to tell people just how brilliantly soulful and beautiful this series is, it is easily one of my favourite series I've read. I loved the complexity, the andat, the gestures to highten meaning, the whole freakin' lot and the end of book three! Ah! I don't think I've ever been so gutted by a fantasy novel before, such a tragic event!

I told Parris a few weeks ago when she was at Worldcon how much I loved this series, Daniel, and she made me promise to also buy Leviathan Wept, speaking of which I guess a trip to the SubPress web site is in order...

EDIT: *Sigh* There goes $42, they better be good stories!!! ;-P

[brook]

*Sigh* There goes $42, they better be good stories!!! ;-P

They are, Flat Diane was haunting but I enjoyed every one which is rare in a collection.

[Rex Tyrannus]

I started an account just to say that I have read The Dragon's Path in pretty much the form it was sent to the publisher, and it was brilliant. I can only imagine the edited version that will see print is that much better.

It's a very different project from the LPQ in tone, but all of Daniel's unique personal hobby horses still show up. I mean, it is epic fantasy with dragons and trolls and sword fights and magic and dread elder gods and, damn, the whole enchilada. But it also concerns itself deeply with things like how banks form, and how control of money controls the actions of princes. I don't know anyone else who's that comfortable doing that sort of genre mixing.

Definitely buy this one when it comes out. Also, grab a copy of Leviathan Wakes while you're there. It is hypoallergenic, and your local dinosaur thanks you.

[jbpark]

Sounds amazing.

[Merrett Frey's Sponsor]

It's a very different project from the LPQ in tone, but all of Daniel's unique personal hobby horses still show up.

Are there references to the soft spot of a baby's head prior to bone fusion?

I am VERY excited for both The Dragon's Path and Leviathan Wakes. I've only been reading Daniel Abraham for two months now, but I can not get enough!

[Brandon Stark]

Finally received and finished the final book. Absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking from beginning to end. It easily rank with Bakker and this forum's namesake as one of my favorites.

[Sci-2]

I just read the prologue to this today. Damn I need more money to buy books. I can't think of the last time the opening of a book impressed me more.

[red snow]

Finally received and finished the final book. Absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking from beginning to end. It easily rank with Bakker and this forum's namesake as one of my favorites.

Funny you should mention Bakker. I think Abraham and Bakker are at opposite ends of the spectrum of how to approach "mature" fantasy but are possibly the best at their chosen extremes. I suspect the two may be mutually exclusive for many readers but I guess we can count ourselves lucky in that we enjoy them both :)

I keep trying to push the series on friends but it's often tricky to sell. Does anyone have any good sales-pitches? I find the ones that work best for me is to explain the idea of the Andat along with the fact that the story is over within 4 books and covers 40 years. The tricky thing for me is the fact I personally found the first book good but not amazing and it's hard to sell in that sense.

[Sci-2]

If nothing else, the man deserves his prologues to be read. Especially the for A Shadow in Summer. YMMV, but I was stunned at how good it was without having any crash-bang magic battles and such.

ETA: Red Snow, could you elaborate on Bakker vs. Abarham writing styles? Thanks.

ETA II: Link to prologue added. Best way I can describe it at the moment is poetic minimalism.

[End of Disc One]

I keep trying to push the series on friends but it's often tricky to sell. Does anyone have any good sales-pitches? I find the ones that work best for me is to explain the idea of the Andat along with the fact that the story is over within 4 books and covers 40 years. The tricky thing for me is the fact I personally found the first book good but not amazing and it's hard to sell in that sense.

I don't know, I haven't had any success pushing these on friends. The one friend I tried, gave up after the prologue.

But I've pretty much given up recommending books after the frustration from the HBO show. I tried to get so many people to read ASoIaF but they wouldn't listen until they saw the show.

[Galactus]

To continue the Donaldson tangent, I thought the Covenant series was exceptional, but only for the concepts, not the story. The story felt shockingly generic and cliché, but it's not every day your protagonist is an

asshole leper rapist with deep-seated psychological issues whose entire story arc may or may not actually exist and whom you sometimes feel you should be rooting against.

I always get shocked by how OLD the Covenant books are. As in, they were written in the 70's.

[Iskaral Pust]

I've posted about this series in another thread (probably the Daniel Abraham thread). I have really enjoyed it so far, but I am having difficulty getting the final book. Amazon finally cancelled my order because they cannot fulfill it.

Any suggestions on how to get a copy? Thanks.