Towers of Midnight SPOILER THREAD

[Werthead]

This is the Towers of Midnight spoiler thread. Herein, there will be SPOILERS, spoilers of such magnitude they will erode your soul. Or something.

Have fun!

[Slick Mongoose]

Bela killed Asmodean.

[Poobah]

Bela killed Asmodean.

All these years, I KNEW IT!

[macaroni]

Graendel did it. A bit dull that.

But the only dull thing from the book. It's a great read.

[fionwe1987]

Graendel did it. A bit dull that.

But the only dull thing from the book. It's a great read.

It was always going to be dull. RJ even said so. I'm happy they only used the Glossary to confirm.

[kuenjato]

To any who wish to spoil: How involved is it to get to the tower of Ghenjei? I was always under the assumption that it was pretty remote and might take a while. And how is Finnland depicted? Dangerous? Mysterious, as in TSR? And how much concerning the Black Tower (Taim's identity, for example) is revealed? How is the opening of the Last Battle depicted?

[kcf]

My review of Towers of Midnight is live. It has some mild spoilers, but I mark them clearly.

An excerpt:

In summary, I really enjoyed Towers of Midnight as I imagine most fans will. A lot happens, many theories die an agonizing death and many play out pretty well as anticipated. What may be a bit more unexpected are the new things we see – the end is nigh, but there is a lot left to happen. Some characters people want to see aren’t to be found, some resolutions we are begging for still remain, but this is a book of action. There are issues, and it certainly isn’t the thematically coherent volume that The Gathering Storm was. However, it is a book to bring laughter and tears to legions of fans. The biggest tears of all because of the ending – no, not that, but because this book basically ends grasping to the edge of a cliff. The resolutions we get are great, but I can’t help but beg to know what’s going to happen next – bring on A Memory of Light.

(full review)

[fionwe1987]

To any who wish to spoil: How involved is it to get to the tower of Ghenjei? I was always under the assumption that it was pretty remote and might take a while.

They Travel there. So its a quick journey.

And how is Finnland depicted? Dangerous? Mysterious, as in TSR?

Dangerous and mysterious. It is like the lands of the Faeri. Things are crazy and don't make sense. While the whole was somewhat rushed and also somewhat predictable, the final point: how the manage to escape, was brilliantly done. Subtle clue from the past, big effect.

And how much concerning the Black Tower (Taim's identity, for example) is revealed?

We know there's some really crazy shit there. There's a dreamspike for sure. And it looks like the 13x13 trick is being used a lot, on Asha'man and Aes Sedai both. And somehow, Taim's cronies are getting more powerful very quickly. Taim identity is not revealed, though there are suggestive hints that he's Moridin.

We see the first Red Ajah-male channeler cooperation begin. But that's it. The BT will be mainly dealt with in the next book.

How is the opening of the Last Battle depicted?

Very well. Huge, and I mean HUGE, Trolloc assault. Maradon is almost destroyed. Kandor is overridden, IIRC.

[kuenjato]

Very well. Huge, and I mean HUGE, Trolloc assault. Maradon is almost destroyed. Kandor is overridden, IIRC.

Wow Fionwe, you're actually making me want to re-read the series! Considering how we've squabbled in the past about RJ, that is saying something. I don't have the time, right now or in the immediate future, but still...

[Poobah]

Not reading any posts yet because I've only read a few chapters, but here's my initial reaction, especially to one scene:

What the fuck.

Some stuff is just so off! I mean, even more than before. And rushed. Rand comes to meet fucking Egwene and that takes place over like three pages! WHAT!?

AND she has him fucking shielded. Continues acting all "I am the Amyrlin Seat, you must obey me, blah, blah, blah" in all of her chapters so far and with Rand especially. Jesus Christ! If they'd done that to him a week earlier he'd he killed the lot of them and they'd have bloody well deserved it. The White Tower hasn't changed at all, and it needs to die right now. I hate Egwene more than ever.

Zen-Rand is a bit bizarre, and feels rather off, but I can kinda accept that from him since he's all "I am The Dragon" now and not really just Rand.

(I really like Galad)

[fionwe1987]

Not reading any posts yet because I've only read a few chapters, but here's my initial reaction, especially to one scene:

What the fuck.

Some stuff is just so off! I mean, even more than before. And rushed. Rand comes to meet fucking Egwene and that takes place over like three pages! WHAT!?

AND she has him fucking shielded. Continues acting all "I am the Amyrlin Seat, you must obey me, blah, blah, blah" in all of her chapters so far and with Rand especially. Jesus Christ! If they'd done that to him a week earlier he'd he killed the lot of them and they'd have bloody well deserved it. The White Tower hasn't changed at all, and it needs to die right now. I hate Egwene more than ever.

Zen-Rand is a bit bizarre, and feels rather off, but I can kinda accept that from him since he's all "I am The Dragon" now and not really just Rand.

(I really like Galad)

You might note that Egwene isn't the one who shielded him, and she does say it was a pointless thing to do. As for the rest... did you even read the three pages? There's a reason she asks him to respect her, one that he accepts. Its simple realpolitik, not any belief that she's superior to him.

[Slick Mongoose]

Egwene's attitude to Rand is poor throughout the book, but it's perfectly within character. The complete lack of trust and "he must be stopped" without any actual thought going into it suggests to me that she might still be under compulsion from Aran'gar.

I knew it was going to be bad in the Black Tower, but those scenes were just terrifying. Seems there's going to be a shitload of dreadlords in the next book! It has become apparent that the light is in horribly bad shape.

I was hoping for more from Demandred, the Seanchan, the Black Tower, the assault on Caemlyn, etc. But I guess that a lot of that is going into the next book.

I'm assuming that those crazy aiel-like people at the end were Sharans?

Oh yeah, and Aviendha.... :crying:

Borderlanders were a disappointment, after all the books of buildup. One dull self-fulfilling prophesy? Bah.

[Slick Mongoose]

It was always going to be dull. RJ even said so. I'm happy they only used the Glossary to confirm.

It was pretty much confirmed in the 1st Graendel chapter, though, when she's getting told off for killing another forsaken.

[fionwe1987]

The complete lack of trust

You mean when she says he was the kind of man who could be trusted to save the world?

and "he must be stopped" without any actual thought going into it suggests to me that she might still be under compulsion from Aran'gar.

Or, you know, she might have had a dream where Rand was breaking the Seals and it lead to total disaster, right before Rand came to meet her and announced his plan. Usually, people would take that to be significant, no?

I'm assuming that those crazy aiel-like people at the end were Sharans?

Very likely, they are the Aiel channelers who used to go to the Blight. They likely have been turned to the Shadow...

Oh yeah, and Aviendha.... :crying:

Yeah. That sucked. I'm wondering if there's anyone for whom that scene didn't work.

[Slick Mongoose]

You mean when she says he was the kind of man who could be trusted to save the world?

No good saying you trust him and then working against him. That's not really trust, is it?

Or, you know, she might have had a dream where Rand was breaking the Seals and it lead to total disaster, right before Rand came to meet her and announced his plan. Usually, people would take that to be significant, no?

I had actually interpretted that as Rand breaking the Choedan Kal. But yours is probably more accurate.

Very likely, they are the Aiel channelers who used to go to the Blight. They likely have been turned to the Shadow...

But he didn't channel, did he?

[gentleman_bastard]

Well that was an intense eight hour read :wideeyed:

What about the Aveindha chapters - brilliant and heartbreaking scene. Its very much scenes like that that make this series for me - the feeling that the world will continue after the books and existed before them. However I will be so pissed off if thats the way it turns out.

Aviendhas role in this was foreshadowed though from book 5, the scene where her and Rand get jiggy in Seanchan (I think). She tells him that he is breaking them and that he needs to give them purpose..

In total I was really impressed by this - really fast paced and enjoyable. I'll definatly need a reread in a way I didn't after AGS.

Just a shame that the waiting starts again!

Also the last scene with Rand and Lanfear - I think this is the other that Shadar Haran mentioned was being given an oppurtunity with Rand. Its a trap I tell you!

[fionwe1987]

No good saying you trust him and then working against him. That's not really trust, is it?

There trust, then there's blind trust, then there's slavery. Egwene trusts Rand, so she knows he won't have some evil reason for doing what he's proposing. But her own dreams indicate there's something wrong with this, and really, saying that you should have a plan to defeat the DO before breaking the Seals is entirely reasonable. And she is pretty open about her disagreement, and is openly using her influence to persuade Rand to not do this. Where's the lack of trust in all this?

I had actually interpretted that as Rand breaking the Choedan Kal. But yours is probably more accurate.

Dreams can't be about the past.

But he didn't channel, did he?

Nope. Which is what makes it confusing.

[Slick Mongoose]

I really shouldn't have mentioned something that sounds like it might be criticism of Egwene. I'll leave well alone now.

[Xanrn]

So what's happening to Aviednha? Better not be dying when Elayne is still alive.

[BLU-RAY]

Interesting book. I feel like there's too much left to do in the last one, but this book was a fuckin' brick, so maybe if they go even bigger, they'll pull it off (and destroy any chance of a serviceable paperback :P).

I loved the Rhuidean scene, that was amazing. The rest of the book, for some reason, didn't blow me away, but there was some good stuff and on the whole I enjoyed it. I was a bit surprised and irritated by Egwene's reaction to Rand, but so it goes, I suppose. Some really nice set pieces, though. I would have liked to get some Black Tower resolution, and I'd have liked to have seen ANY Logain. Also, the Mesaana/BA thing didn't feel weighty enough; not sure why that is, possibly because I always felt the real threat of Mesaana was possibly manipulating the AS/White Tower into devastatingly negative actions, rather than simply killing.