Towers of Midnight SPOILER THREAD

[Poobah]

I really shouldn't have mentioned something that sounds like it might be criticism of Egwene. I'll leave well alone now.

You shouldn't let Fionwe shout you down.

So anyway, it's 6am and I'm done. I agree with whichever review I read that said that the pacing was totally fucked up.

My major problems with the pacing:

-The chronology is totally fucked beyond all recognition for any non-hardcore fan. Even I'm not sure when some of this shit is supposed to be happening in relation to the other stuff. TBF I got the impression that even some of the characters and even the writer / editors didn't know what the hell was going on with the chronology here.

-The rodel ituralde felt totally out of place and time. They were utterly dislocated from the rest of the novel and just felt randomly jammed in. Which is a shame because I rather liked them, but that isn't to say that they should have been there or been in that manner, even so.

-Totally agree that not enough happens in the first 2/3-3/4 or so and way too much is crammed into the last bit. Seriously. I was screaming for about 8 hours "WHERE THE FUCK IS THE FUCKING TOWER OF GHENJEI" and then "IF IT ISN'T IN THIS BOOK, I'M GOING TO MURDER SOMEONE".

-Fion you are about to list a load of important shit that happens in those first 600 pages or so. I know some important stuff happens. I know there is also some action. But not 600 pages worth. Especially considering you could cram all the action scenes in that first bit of the book into a few chapters, possibly as few as two or three. All the rest is bad politics and bullshit plots (what the fuck was Graendal's plan in any case? Extremely over-elaborate plot to get Perrin near that portal stone so she could have some male channeler she owns drop off a load of Trollocs on him? Suuuuuuuper Genius).

-Graendal managed to go from, in the prologue, a scary actual threat to Rand to a totally ineffectual failure as a villain. Colour me disappointed.

-Where the fuck is Demandred. Seriously, shit! Where the fuck is Demandred!? The ultimate wheel of time merchandise right there man. Forget Where's Wally (or Waldo for you americans).

-Not enough Black Tower by far.

-Where the hell is Logain!? You can't write possibly my favourite character out of two books and get away with this shit.

-Meaningless title is meaningless.

-This book was crying out to be named Knife of Dreams and I can't help but feel that Dreamspike shenanigans were what Jordan had in mind with the title, even if in the end that stuff didn't go into that book.

-Avihenda's vision of the future made a little part of my soul die :(

[Slurktan]

Intense day of reading, I quite liked it.

- I was right about Rand/Lews Therin. And I appreciate that(if only briefly)it was shown how Min felt about that. I'm most curious to see how Aviendha reacts. Elayne is an idiot in anything that isn't politics so I don't expect her to care much.

- Perrin was awesome. Wish he had tought Egwene a few lessons in humility in TAR. I'm looking forward to him presenting his argument to the gathered council about how simple Rand's reasoning is for breaking the Seals if only for the embarrassment to Egwene. I still wonder what will be his second time saving Rand though since I'd think he won't be jumping with Rand to Shayol Ghul.

- Egwene's reasoning for opposing Rand's plan is idiotic to say the least, simply illogical at best. So I have to assume as much as I loathe the character that she was compulsed to oppose Rand by Aran'gar. I also appreciated that she was made to look stupid by Gawyn, the poster child of stupidity in the series but that's admittedly just a personal take.

- I enjoyed Rand bursting Cadsuane's bubble probably a little too much.

- I actually like Sanderson's Mat better than Jordans. His humour strikes more of a chord with me I guess. In particular I liked the nod to the Aliases part of TGS when Birgitte finds him in the bar, and of course the letter.

- The Ituralde parts were parts I liked alot even if they seemed oddly out of place. I love strategy talk in battle scenes.

- I have to hope that the borderlander armies and their rulers will all be killed in the LB. Kind of infuriating that they would let their countries die to ask one question.

- I very much liked Aviendha's future memories but perhaps not for the reasons others did. I actually liked that the Aiel got punished for breaking yet another covenant.

- Favourite scenes were two really short ones: Rand meeting Tam again, and Mat throwing acorns at Perrin's head.

Questions:

What did Graendal do to Tuon/the Seanchan?

Demandred!? Since the Borderlander armies were taken care of so easily there's not really many other options where he could be. It pretty much has to be the BT now. I'd think he also has to be the one running Shadowspawn through the ways all over the place in the south. On a side note I'm curious as to what his "eighty-and-one" (I think that was the numbers)was all about in the Age of Legends. Some sort of counterpart to the Hundred companions but yet again just showing how he just wasn't as good as LT?

I'll have to reread the passage but weren't there Aes Sedai involved in the making of Mjolnir? Are they black ajah so that they can bypass the oath?

Can we convince them to write the Outrigger novels after? I'm curious to see more of the Seanchan busting up Aiel punks and building railroads. Mat FTW!

[Slurktan]

(what the fuck was Graendal's plan in any case? Extremely over-elaborate plot to get Perrin near that portal stone so she could have some male channeler she owns drop off a load of Trollocs on him? Suuuuuuuper Genius).

-Graendal managed to go from, in the prologue, a scary actual threat to Rand to a totally ineffectual failure as a villain. Colour me disappointed.

This. Well not the disappointed part, I like incompetent villains every now and then.

What was the deal with the lone male channeler anyways? Who was he and where did he come from? Why wasn't Graendal the one bringing the Trollocs from the portal stone? Why wouldn't she, you know, invert a disguise on herself, walk up to Perrin and kill him?

[Slick Mongoose]

Did we ever find out what happened to Alanna? If so I must have missed it.

[Slick Mongoose]

This. Well not the disappointed part, I like incompetent villains every now and then.

Anyone else think that Moridin set Graendal up as punishment?He knew Perrin was ta'veren, he said himself that Perrin would get out of it, and then he went on the encourage Graendal.

It is a shame, because she did seem like one of the competent ones. Demandred better kick some arse.

What was the deal with the lone male channeler anyways? Who was he and where did he come from? Why wasn't Graendal the one bringing the Trollocs from the portal stone?

It was Moridin's messenger, i'm guessing.

[Daeric]

I'll have to reread the passage but weren't there Aes Sedai involved in the making of Mjolnir? Are they black ajah so that they can bypass the oath?

Probably somantics, while power supplied by them, they didn't personally make the weapon themselves Neald did.

The acorn scene had me laughing with the sack just for the reference to the first book.

[Poobah]

I don't think AS were involved. IIRC it was wise ones.

Also, did everyone notice how many people were wandering around with a little sealed letter, most likely looking exactly the same as the one Mat didn't open. Also, on the contents of Mat's letter it's interesting how badly Verrin misjudged him.

[Slick Mongoose]

OK, so how did Gawyn gate into Tar Valon when the dreamspike was there?

[Poobah]

It was mentioned that the gate snapped shut behind him and nearly cut his leg off. Presumably Perrin moved the spike into Tar Valon just as Gawyn moved through the gate.

[fionwe1987]

You shouldn't let Fionwe shout you down.

:rolleyes: No one shut him down. I made some arguments. He didn't want to respond. End of story.

So anyway, it's 6am and I'm done. I agree with whichever review I read that said that the pacing was totally fucked up.

My major problems with the pacing:

-The chronology is totally fucked beyond all recognition for any non-hardcore fan. Even I'm not sure when some of this shit is supposed to be happening in relation to the other stuff. TBF I got the impression that even some of the characters and even the writer / editors didn't know what the hell was going on with the chronology here.

This I can agree with. While I think I have a rough chronology, seeing Tam in two places at once was disconcerting.

-The rodel ituralde felt totally out of place and time. They were utterly dislocated from the rest of the novel and just felt randomly jammed in. Which is a shame because I rather liked them, but that isn't to say that they should have been there or been in that manner, even so.

But the disconnect is more than at the novel-level. I think the point was that even with Trollocs pouring out of the Blight, the world just wasn't ready and united enough to push them back quickly, and Rand had to do something absolutely crazy to push them back.

-Totally agree that not enough happens in the first 2/3-3/4 or so and way too much is crammed into the last bit. Seriously. I was screaming for about 8 hours "WHERE THE FUCK IS THE FUCKING TOWER OF GHENJEI" and then "IF IT ISN'T IN THIS BOOK, I'M GOING TO MURDER SOMEONE".

-Fion you are about to list a load of important shit that happens in those first 600 pages or so. I know some important stuff happens. I know there is also some action. But not 600 pages worth. Especially considering you could cram all the action scenes in that first bit of the book into a few chapters, possibly as few as two or three. All the rest is bad politics and bullshit plots (what the fuck was Graendal's plan in any case? Extremely over-elaborate plot to get Perrin near that portal stone so she could have some male channeler she owns drop off a load of Trollocs on him? Suuuuuuuper Genius).

I disagree about the first 2/3rds, but I'm not bothered enough to discuss it.

As for Graendal's plan: of course it wasn't that simple. As she says, she needed Perrin in the middle of a storm of action so her plant could kill him. So she sprung the trap on the Whitecloaks (it was supposed to be on Perrin), trusting that Perrin's nature wouldn't let him stay out. Perrin intervened, and there was a chaotic battle. In the midst of it, Jaret Byar tries to kill him from behind. Of course, even that isn't enough. Perrin gets saved by Dain Bornhald, who is the "damned Whitecloak" that Graendal is cursing in her final PoV. Jaret Byar was likely under compulsion to get Perrin killed. Makes sense. His intensity of hatred against Perrin was likely increased by her compulsion. The true question is: did she place the compulsion in book 2 (when Byar was near Arad Doman) or was this a recent thing?

-Graendal managed to go from, in the prologue, a scary actual threat to Rand to a totally ineffectual failure as a villain. Colour me disappointed.

Agreed. Decent though the plan was, it just wasn't really like her at all. I'd rather have had Moghedien fail here, and Graendal kept in reserve for something more drastic and more effective.

-Meaningless title is meaningless.

Hmmm... I refer you to Egwene's dream.

-This book was crying out to be named Knife of Dreams and I can't help but feel that Dreamspike shenanigans were what Jordan had in mind with the title, even if in the end that stuff didn't go into that book.

Maybe, though I think the Dreamspike's introduction at that stage would have killed the suspense.

-Avihenda's vision of the future made a little part of my soul die :(

Yeah.

- Perrin was awesome. Wish he had tought Egwene a few lessons in humility in TAR.

Question is, could he? As Egwene says, it isn't what he did that surprised her, but that he could actually do it. And we see from Egwene's fighting that she's rather more inventive than Perrin. Perrin never does just think of a column of fire burning Slayer, or Slayer being momentarily confused, just because he cannot make such effects happen in real life, unlike Egwene. I don't know how a staring match between those two would go in TAR (I doubt either would be able to snap the others mind), but its far from clear that Perrin would succeed.

I'm looking forward to him presenting his argument to the gathered council about how simple Rand's reasoning is for breaking the Seals if only for the embarrassment to Egwene. I still wonder what will be his second time saving Rand though since I'd think he won't be jumping with Rand to Shayol Ghul.

He may be a little flat footed when Egwene opens proceedings by sharing her Dream, no?

- Egwene's reasoning for opposing Rand's plan is idiotic to say the least, simply illogical at best. So I have to assume as much as I loathe the character that she was compulsed to oppose Rand by Aran'gar. I also appreciated that she was made to look stupid by Gawyn, the poster child of stupidity in the series but that's admittedly just a personal take.

I'm kind of confused. Did so many people actually miss her dream warning about Rand's attempt to break the Seal, which likely happened just as Rand entered Tar Valon? That is why she opposes his plan, and given the great deal of doubt surrounding the "break the seals plan", and the beneficial effects of Latra Pose opposing LTT in the AoL, I'll reserve judgment on her decision till I can see what happens.

[Xanrn]

So the Seanchan destroy the Aiel and rule the continent? Freaking lame.

Also what benefits of that stupid Woman opposing LTT?

All the men going insane and breaking the world?

I very much doubt Saidar would have been tainted aswell, all she did was for the sake of thinking she could negoiate with the shadow, screw over the world.

[Poobah]

I loved Nynaeve in that scene after her absolutely disgusting testing. She pretty much told Egwene and the White Tower as an institution in its current form the fuck off. Nynaeve kicks ass, balefires shit, and sticks it to the (wo)man.

Also all those sitters who did that to her should die, I mean right now, seriously. And well they pretty much demonstrated the true character of the 'Aes Sedai' and White Tower. Petty, cruel, mean, vicious little women on a power trip. Nynaeve should retaliate in kind and keep severing and healing them till they hit the very bottom of the WT's absurd power structure, then use them as pieces of furniture :P

No comments on how many people are walking around with little letters from Verin, Fion? I need someone to discuss this book with 'cause I'm not going to wade through Dragonmount.

Also who was that woman who talked with Avi? Honestly I almost feel like it could be Verin, but IDK if that would work, I have absolutely no idea where in the chronology the Avi chapters take place, though I get the feeling that Avi left for the waste pretty early in TGS... idunno. Other candidates could be a real darkfriend pushing her towards the future she later sees in Rhuidean - it isn't clear if the woman forcing her to think on the Aiel's future is trying to influence her for good or ill really.

With regards to Avi's heartrending vision of the future : what struck me most is that everyone is dead. All the main characters are dead. There's no mention of Avi, of Rand himself, of Egwene or Elayne (who could theoretically remain queen for the next 500 years), Tuon is dead. They're Dead Dave. Everybody is Dead Dave. Seems pretty much like a partial victory for the Shadow really, a broken future. Was really interested by the mention of the Black Tower continuing in that future as a force for good, albeit one which is broken as indeed the White Tower also is, by the Seanchan 'raven empire'.

I also can't help but wonder if the vision is not a true vision but a test or divine intervention of some sort. Just as the vision of the Way of the Leaf was totally anathema to the chiefs and Wise Ones who went through it, this vision is to Aviendha: where the previous vision gave the Aiel toh because of their past and by doing so conferred onto them a meaningful purpose, this seems to be doing the exact same thing, except instead of it being because of what their ancestors did, it's now because of what their descendants will do. Also, I'd be interested to see what would happen if Rand were to walk through the glass columns now.

Xanrn: I'm pretty sure that the vision doesn't have to come to pass. But I think it's a good way to kinda... show that even though we pretty much have known for the last decade and a half that Rand is certainly going to win the last battle... well, there could still be a bad ending regardless.

Totally unrelated side thought: Verin was a brown, eg a librarian. Maaaybe the reason that Ishy and Graendal were convinced that Perrin would die was because, just as Ishy has messed with the Seanchan's prophecies of the dragon, to stick a spoke in the wheels of the light... maybe Verin messed with the dark prophecies?

And I repeat again: Where The Hell is Logain? Seriously unless Logain and Demandred have an EPIC SHOWDOWN next book I am going to be pissed. But Really if I meet Sanderson in the next few months (unlikely) I think I'll be unable to stop myself jumping up and down and screaming "Where the fuck is Demandred!" because damnit is Demmy and his total lack of presence ever aggravating.

Finally: anyone else get the impression that the Seanchan white tower invasion force is going to conveniently hop out of their gateways at the Field of Merrilor just in time for Rand's little 'bring your own army' party?

[Spring Bass]

A couple of thoughts:

1. I loved Zen-Rand. I loved his bad-assery (he did the same type of thing Lews Therin did back in KoD, I think, except without the insanity and internal battle for control), I loved the fact that he seems to have an idea of what he's going to do at Tarmon Gaiden (although he hasn't told Egwene and the others yet), and I loved his gentle riposte to Cadsuane. I think the whole "Mr.Calm" works well, too - he's more or less become one with Lews Therin.

2. Mat was okay, although reading his internal monologue was really annoying after a while (yes, Mat, you're a married man, women are troublesome - we get it). I like how the dragons are progressing, although I don't know how realistic it would be for them to have a massive store of gunpowder sitting around (considering the Illuminators were decimated by the Seanchan), and that takes a lot of time to make.

3. Faile was much, much better than before, although her continued bitterness towards Berelain was a bit of a nuisance to read (but it made sense).

4. Perrin was my second-least favorite part to read (after Mat before the Tower of Ghenjei). Some bad-assery, but too much "I am a not a wolf" angst.

5. Perhaps I just don't remember the previous books that well, but there seemed to be a lot of "Convenient Coupling" in this one. Faile is pissed at Berelain, wants her to do something to stop the rumors, and - look - Galad shows up, and he and Berelain are instantly in love. I can sort of buy the Moiraine-Thom marriage, although I don't remember her hinting anything that way. The Morgase-Tannavar couple just seemed like wasted page - why do we care about whether or not they hook up again?

6. The book definitely laid it on thick that Bad Things are happening at the Black Tower, what with Taim's more or less open rebellion, and the mysterious power-ups that his cronies are getting. I suppose we'll get that Logain-Taim confrontation at some point in MoL, at which point Taim & Friends will become dreadlords. To be honest, that's one thing I didn't like that happened in this series - Taim being an obvious Darkfriend. I think it would have been much more interesting to make him genuinely believe that the Dragon Reborn will be whoever history says it was if they win at Tarmon Gaiden (he said something like that earlier on, I remember), and rebel out of that, jealousy, and the genuine belief that he's better fit to lead the Asha'men.

7. The Aviendha parts were sad, but kind of a WTF. Seriously, some of the flashbacks were like "Oh yeah, remember the Empress back in the Last Battle in the time of my grandma? She was cool". I thought Tarmon Gaiden was supposed to be followed by a new Breaking of the World. In any case, I suspect it will be Aviendha who warns Egwene and the White Tower about the Seanchan assault being planned by the non-Tuon female ruler (can't remember her name), which might lead to either a badass confrontation with Rand, or a funny scene where they come into an empty White Tower (after all of the Aes Sedai have evacuated).

8. Nynaeve is cool.

9. The Iturande stuff was cool in hindsight. It gave us a good bird's eye view of the final invasion by the Frollicking Trolloc Horde.*

* Speaking of which, where are all these Trollocs coming from? I get that they can eat anything, and the Blight isn't a barren wasteland (just a corrupted one, except in the Blasted Lands), but they're still huge, warm-blooded creatures who probably require a gigantic amount of food to supply, and we've never seen any major indication that there's some type of massive logistics and food production operation going on in the Blight to feed such huge numbers (unlike in Lord of the Rings, where it mentions that Sauron's armies are being fed out of this one very large agricultural area). Extremely large numbers of Trollocs have been slaughtered throughout the series, but it seems like there's ten of them for every one that's killed.

But then, I've never liked Trollocs, who are basically Evil Cannon Fodder to be slaughtered.

[Arlingzen Bill]

So the Seanchan destroy the Aiel and rule the continent? Freaking lame.

It isn't just that it happens but that Avienda's children cause the turn of events. I believe that this is a warning of what be, and that there is a chance for change, similar to all the alternate worlds where Rand fails.

What was up with Olver? Damien much?

[Poobah]

1. I loved Zen-Rand. I loved his bad-assery (he did the same type of thing Lews Therin did back in KoD, I think, except without the insanity and internal battle for control), I loved the fact that he seems to have an idea of what he's going to do at Tarmon Gaiden (although he hasn't told Egwene and the others yet), and I loved his gentle riposte to Cadsuane. I think the whole "Mr.Calm" works well, too - he's more or less become one with Lews Therin.

I would love for 'Rand Sedai' to verbally annihilate the entire tower. LTT was a real Aes Sedai, he was First Amongst The Servants, he Summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, he wore the Ring of Tamyrlin. The upstart bitches need to get in line. Only Nynaeve, Moiraine, Cads and a few others deserve the title of Aes Sedai.

Speaking of Moiraine, the more I think of her (and the prophecy that Rand will need her to save the world) the more I think that it will be her as the second female channeller in the circle with him and Callandor.

[Slurktan]

He may be a little flat footed when Egwene opens proceedings by sharing her Dream, no?

I'm kind of confused. Did so many people actually miss her dream warning about Rand's attempt to break the Seal, which likely happened just as Rand entered Tar Valon? That is why she opposes his plan, and given the great deal of doubt surrounding the "break the seals plan", and the beneficial effects of Latra Pose opposing LTT in the AoL, I'll reserve judgment on her decision till I can see what happens.

Why would Perrin be flat footed by that? It does nothing at all to his argument. Her dream boils down to, "Ooo the Dark One being free is not a good thing", well no shit Sherlock. Again it is completely illogical to be against the breaking the seals plan as shown by the very simple logic Perrin says about it. Unless you are dealing with computer software you don't ever patch a patch if you want something to last. To argue against that is simply moronic.

[Poobah]

Yeah Egwene's logic is flawed and her entire argument is essentially rooted in fear, and, I would say her knowledge that she and the white tower have failed. Failed to prepare. Failed to be ready for the last battle. The seals are breaking anyway and she wants to procrastinate a few days or weeks because she desperately wants more time to mitigate two years (and indeed three thousand years) of white tower fail.

It's obvious that the seals are inherently broken. It's obvious that they need to be gotten rid of if the DO is going to be sealed better than last time. All the people who actually think about it are aware of this.

edit:

You might note that Egwene isn't the one who shielded him

I missed this. Fion, as Egwene keeps banging on about: she is the white tower. She shielded him. She is responsible. Her failure to give a sensible order like "hm if we're going to deal with the Dragon Reborn then maybe we should act respectfully and non-aggressively towards him" shielding is overtly aggressive thing to do to someone. It's one step away from dragging him in in chains. Words are meaningless, if all the Aes Sedai bullshit over the past 12 volumes hasn't demonstrated that then I don't know what will. Actions are what matter. And what the tower did (and by extension what she did) was shield him, surround him with soldiers, and drag him before their leader for judgement.

[Slick Mongoose]

Do a dreamer's dreams always come true? I can't recall one that hasn't.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I guess there was no way to avoid it after the structure of TGS, but it was kind of disconcerting having the at-peace Rand/LTT fusion running around righting wrongs across the world while meanwhile Perrin's blatantly behind in the timeline. I liked what was going on with Perrin there, but I wish there was a way to avoid that later-WOT-book trap of "we're halfway through this book and we just caught up to the end of the last book" that you get when Perrin is at Dragonmount in the Wolf Dream and a bit earlier when Tam suddenly absconds from Perrin's camp. This after Tam himself appeared in the early chapters, as well!

That said, having not had overinflated expectations of the conclusion in someone else's hands, I feel like I can appreciate Towers of Midnight for what it was: the payoff to a lot of stuff that's been set up for a long time. There's that big list that gets posted in the WOT threads here sometimes of Stuff That Needs To Happen and a lot of it Happened here. Perrin settles the score with the Whitecloaks, finally accepts himself as a leader and actually gets his position solidified vis-a-vis Andor. Mat at the Tower of Ghenjei, Rand straightening out the Borderlanders... yeah.

Probably the best part of the book for me - and I see I'm not alone here - perhaps because it was so unexpected, was Aviendha's trip to Rhuidean. The grim future was as fascinating as the grim past of Rand's trip through there way back when. I think (hope) that our assorted heroes will be able to prevent its happening because it seems to suppose that the Seanchan's continued dominance relies on their still having the sul'dam controlling damane through the a'dam. It seems like this will change eventually with Tuon and then probably Mat saving Tuon somehow. Not to mention there's probably some new purpose for the Aiel to be found in tandem with the Tinkers. This is what I would like to believe, but I have to say that TOM's other assorted plots did a good job of setting up how this dark future could come to exist. The dickering over the control of the dragons, the compacts of nations and that kind of stuff.

Plus just enough to keep us on the edge of our seats until we get the last book. The slow-drip of the bad shit going down in the Black Tower, Trollocs overrunning the Borderlands and of course Lan's charge into Tarwin's Gap. Something tells me that the sending of love before he charges will be received by Nynaeve during this big parley at the Fields of Merrilor or whatever and TOM established for us that she'll tell the Tower to fuck off to save Lan. So hey, maybe we'll see some good end after all.

I hope Sanderson can keep up the inhuman writing pace to crank out the final volume, because damn, now I'm really ready to see how it ends.

[Slurktan]

Probably the best part of the book for me - and I see I'm not alone here - perhaps because it was so unexpected, was Aviendha's trip to Rhuidean. The grim future was as fascinating as the grim past of Rand's trip through there way back when. I think (hope) that our assorted heroes will be able to prevent its happening because it seems to suppose that the Seanchan's continued dominance relies on their still having the sul'dam controlling damane through the a'dam. It seems like this will change eventually with Tuon and then probably Mat saving Tuon somehow. Not to mention there's probably some new purpose for the Aiel to be found in tandem with the Tinkers. This is what I would like to believe, but I have to say that TOM's other assorted plots did a good job of setting up how this dark future could come to exist. The dickering over the control of the dragons, the compacts of nations and that kind of stuff.

I'm not sure how 'bleak' the future is for anyone but the Aiel. The Seanchan were keeping the peace and not attacking anyone (including the WT and BT) until Rand's children/Aiel decided to trick everyone to go to war because they were bored. Tough shit to cry about something you caused for no reason.

And as it has been pointed out over and over and over in the books, for anyone that isn't a channeler, being part of the Seanchan is far better than being anything else so I fail to see this future as 'dark'.