34 replies to this topic

[Larry.]

Amazon’s 2010 Science Fiction/Fantasy Top 10 List has just been posted:

#1 - The Golden Ageby Michal Ajvaz, translated by Andrew Oakland (Dalkey Archive Press)
#2 - How to Live in a Science Fictional Universeby Charles Yu (Pantheon)
#3 - Redemption in Indigoby Karen Lord (Small Beer Press)
#4 - The Half-Made Worldby Felix Gilman (Tor)
#5 - The Hundred Thousand Kingdomsby N.K. Jemisin (Orbit)
#6 - The Orange Eats Creepsby Grace Krilanovich (Two Dollar Radio)
#7 - The Dream of Perpetual Motionby Dexter Palmer (St. Martin's Press)
#8 - Who Fears Deathby Nnedi Okorafor (DAW)
#9 - The Fixed Starsby Brian Conn (Fiction Collective 2)
#10 - Kill the Deadby Richard Kadrey (Eos)

You can also find the bestseller/readers list for the year here.

***

I've read all or part of eight of these (all but the Palmer and Kadrey, but I have the Palmer on order). There will be a "second ten" announced sometime next week. More information on these ten books and related plans can be found here.

Thoughts?

[pat5150]

Jeff VanderMeer's choices are always a bit too "out there" to reflect the taste of most Amazon readers, I think. . .

Nothing wrong with that, of course. But I can imagine 99% of Amazon readers, like the bulk of SFF readership, shaking their heads and wondering WTF.

Patrick

[Werthead]

I'm still trying to work out how the hell Amazon UK's system works. It's not by score, so it must be by sales, including preorders (the order of the list keeps changing day by day as well, which must be the explanation). In which case, Chris Wooding must be very happy with the placement of The Black Lung Captain

That said, has The Passage really sold less copies in six months than Against All Things Ending in just three weeks? Seems highly implausible.

[pat5150]

Werthead, on 06 November 2010 - 10:22 AM, said:

That said, has The Passage really sold less copies in six months than Against All Things Ending in just three weeks? Seems highly implausible.

How about impossible!?!

Patrick

[red snow]

Werthead, on 06 November 2010 - 10:22 AM, said:

I'm still trying to work out how the hell Amazon UK's system works. It's not by score, so it must be by sales, including preorders (the order of the list keeps changing day by day as well, which must be the explanation). In which case, Chris Wooding must be very happy with the placement of The Black Lung Captain

That said, has The Passage really sold less copies in six months than Against All Things Ending in just three weeks? Seems highly implausible.

I was trying to work out how amazon.uk worked out its top 10. Do they include reviews as well? I was also surprised to see "black Lung Captain" there. I think it's a great read but didn't think it would be a bestseller. Great news if it is though. Maybe Chris knows the witchcraft involved in amazon.uk's list?

[MattD]

The Amazon UK list is called "Editor's Picks" so presumably it was assembled by whoever is in charge of managing and doing the product placement for the SF&F section of the UK site, in consultation with the other fiction editors and looking at sales, reviews, etc. They just took a more populist route than VanderMeer did.

[Werthead]

MattD, on 06 November 2010 - 11:18 AM, said:

The Amazon UK list is called "Editor's Picks" so presumably it was assembled by whoever is in charge of managing and doing the product placement for the SF&F section of the UK site, in consultation with the other fiction editors and looking at sales, reviews, etc. They just took a more populist route than VanderMeer did.

Then how come the order of the list has changed three times in the last few days?

[MattD]

Oh, I'm sure there's a formula of some sort at the base of it, as you say--it probably involves not just sales and reviews, but also things like rate of change of sales (to try to make sure the hot new books of the holiday season are listed). I'm just pointing out that there may be a human factor as well, so that the formula may not be derivable--or it may be the case that the list is human-selected but the order is by formula, etc.

[The Evil Hat]

Isn't it far too early to do a best of 2010? There's still a sixth of the year to go, and several big titles have either not yet been released (Stonewielder) or have just gotten out (Towers of Midnight). Not that I suspect any of those would make VanderMeer's list, but still.

[RedEyedGhost]

The Evil Hat, on 06 November 2010 - 12:35 PM, said:

Isn't it far too early to do a best of 2010? There's still a sixth of the year to go, and several big titles have either not yet been released (Stonewielder) or have just gotten out (Towers of Midnight). Not that I suspect any of those would make VanderMeer's list, but still.

I can understand the editor's list this early because I'm sure VanderMeer has received and read arcs from all the books he's interested in to finish out the year. The top sold doesn't make too much since though, because I'm sure the new WoT book will instantly be #1 when it comes out....

I am glad to see The Half-Made World made his list (I'm 3/4 through and am absolutely loving it), but disappointed that he thought the very tripe The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms was a top 10 book.

[Larry.]

From what I've learned in conversation with him, Amazon has a cut off of November for their lists; all their lists are done with a single editor choosing a list with some input from other Amazon editors. That's how VanderMeer's list is the way it is. He devised a preliminary list, received some input from a few others at Amazon, and then the final list went live. But yes, the editors do receive ARCs through early 2011 (counting December 2010 releases), even though none on the list are that late of releases.

Now the question is if those who are lamenting the "obscureness" of this list going to investigate the books or are they going to bemoan that the list doesn't match their own favorites list, skewed as those might be?

[Luisa Aoiftrazzini]

Werthead, on 06 November 2010 - 10:22 AM, said:

I'm still trying to work out how the hell Amazon UK's system works. It's not by score, so it must be by sales, including preorders (the order of the list keeps changing day by day as well, which must be the explanation). In which case, Chris Wooding must be very happy with the placement of The Black Lung Captain

That said, has The Passage really sold less copies in six months than Against All Things Ending in just three weeks? Seems highly implausible.

If you go back to the "Best of 2010" page, the link to that particular SFF list is under the "Editor's Picks" heading. I don't know who the editor is, but I imagine the list is compiled in a similar manner to the JVM/Amazon.com one.

ETA: Sorry, I saw that this was indeed raised already, and refuted. Dunno, in that case. I see that the top 100 is sales-driven, but I'm surprised they're trying to present a changeable list as an editor's presumably one-time choice.

Edited by Aoifstrifiammante, 06 November 2010 - 07:16 PM.

[pat5150]

Larry., on 06 November 2010 - 06:16 PM, said:

Now the question is if those who are lamenting the "obscureness" of this list going to investigate the books or are they going to bemoan that the list doesn't match their own favorites list, skewed as those might be?

My taste in books and VanderMeer's simply don't overlap 99% of the time. And ever since I got buttfucked deeper than I ever have been or want to be by Wizard of the Crow, I'm always reticent to give his recs a shot.

I have a number of titles listed in his top 10 in my "books to read" piles, but whether or not I'll give them a go remains to be seen...

Patrick

[Dagger]

I read the list yesterday and today I picked up the first book in the Kadrey's series and Hundred Thousand Kingdoms at my local B&N. They had The Half-Made World but I didn't want to shell out full price for a hardcover.

[Larry.]

pat5150, on 06 November 2010 - 07:47 PM, said:

My taste in books and VanderMeer's simply don't overlap 99% of the time. And ever since I got buttfucked deeper than I ever have been or want to be by Wizard of the Crow, I'm always reticent to give his recs a shot.

I have a number of titles listed in his top 10 in my "books to read" piles, but whether or not I'll give them a go remains to be seen...

Patrick

You know Pat, some people enjoy being "buttfucked" (not that I would know from personal experience, but still), so maybe your analogy is a bit off?

[Old Nan]

Does your experience as a consumer of yaoi fiction inform this equanimity of yours in the face (as it were) of buggery, Larry?

[Larry.]

Old Nan, on 07 November 2010 - 02:06 AM, said:

Does your experience as a consumer of yaoi fiction inform this equanimity of yours in the face (as it were) of buggery, Larry?

No, just a general awareness that there's a relatively high number of women and gay males who seem to enjoy the act, that's all. I just find it to be a stupid term when it'd be much easier to use the more accepted "got burned by." Just puzzled at why such a term would be used to describe a bad reaction to a book.

[Luisa Aoiftrazzini]

Gotta admit, I wasn't really concerned about pat's phrasing because he included a disclaimer: "buttfucked deeper than I ever have been or want to be". Yes, there are other, better analogies out there, but pat didn't flat-out condemn it for everyone.

OTOH, there are more individuals out there than women and gay males who enjoy a little anal penetration/prostate stimulation, so that's just another example of the real world: phrases being written by people, who sometimes make assumptions or mistakes, and not perfectly sensitive and aware robots. :shrug:

(And, as is the nature of these things, I've probably been hoist with my own petard and unintentionally excluded some other people in my own post. That's exactly what I mean.)

[Calibandar]

Deeply disappointing list, with the exception of the Gilman, which has some broader appeal at last. I'm sure that fact alone must have had Vandermeer consider removing it from his list.

Urban Fantasy and Fantasy chicklit are not my style, so Kadrey and Jemisin don't cut it for me either. Obviously, in a year with several fine epic Fantasy releases, not a single one makes the cut. This list could have been compiled by MJ Harrison and none would have been the wiser.

In the end, I just really don't like the fact that the Amazon.com list is Jeff Vandermeer's list and not a cross section of editors and reviewers that read and evaluate broadly. Now it's the list of a guy who is always deliberately looking at what is most left field and edgy.

[Larry.]

Again, the list is not solely VanderMeer's. Read his explanation behind it if you don't believe me. Whether or not it suits some people's particular tastes is not a point of contention, since no list will be universally loved. However, I must express bafflement at the claim of there being "several fine epic fantasy releases." I consider this year to be particularly poor in regards to that subgenre.