65 replies to this topic

[The Pale Griffin]

As to the dragon with the monkey, what about Aenys I. He made Maegor the Cruel his Hand and much like Tywin and Aerys II, the Hand could have ruled while the mad king played with his monkey. He`s really the only one I can think of. Aerys was too bookish to even attend court according to Dunk & Egg because it was Bloodraven who ruled. The only other one I could think of was Aenys II.

[Ran]

There was no Aenys II.

I think while we know something of Aerys I, we don't really know how he acts at the end of his reign, which is a number of years in the future from when we last hear of him in "The Mystery Knight".

Aenys I seems possible enough, I suppose. Don't really know much about his reign.

[The Pale Griffin]

Woops. Sorry bout that. Meant Aegon II.

[Steel_Wind]

The hairy bear, on 14 November 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

Well, Ser Wyllis Manderly is freed and returned home in AFFC after Lord Manderly "beheads Davos and puts his head over the White Harbor's gates".

I hope the quotation marks are appropiate... This chapter gives some hopes since... why would Lord Manderly muster an army otherwise? If his intentions were to submit to Bolton and the Iron Throne, why go to the trouble of paying for a fleet? He's so going to join Stannis!  

Possible. There is also the possibility that Lord-Too-Fat-to-Sit-A-Horse chooses "none of the above".

By which I mean to say, he chooses instead to bend the knee to King Rickon of House Stark.

[Lord Varys]

Steel_Wind, on 15 November 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

By which I mean to say, he chooses instead to bend the knee to King Rickon of House Stark.

Not that likely. Continuing the cause of a Stark King would always mean trouble with King's Landing, irrelevant if a Lannister, Baratheon, or Targaryen rules there. And King Rickon would be a small boy, unable to press his claim or to work as a successful figurehead (and neither would Bran the Broken, by the way). Rickon in White Harbor would likely motivate Lord Wylis to reinstate him as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North as it would prevent the Boltons from becoming the rulers in the North, but the whole seceding thing did not work in the first place. And I don't see it happening again without a strong grown-up Stark male leading it. Sansa, too, is not going to make a move for Robb's crown, she likely is going to try to become the first Ruling Lady of Winterfell.

Edited by Lord Varys, 15 November 2010 - 03:25 PM.

[Curethan]

Can't wait for Manderly to unleash the eels.

Eels, eels, eels, eels up in inside ya - finding an entrance where they can...

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

So where does this chapter fit on the timeline of AFfC chapters?

[Gaston de Foix]

Jurble, on 14 November 2010 - 08:02 PM, said:

I don't see Davos suddenly breaking with Stannis, he's way too loyal.  And with Aurane Waters and the Iron Fleet (the fleet the Qartheen give her in the spoiler chapter), Dany has all the ships she needs.

Jurble, where do you get this data point from?

[Werthead]

Yeah, the Qartheen just give her a few ships. There's no sign whatsoever that they're Aurane Waters's ships. In fact, due to the timeline (these are events still happening around the time AFFC starts) it is impossible for them to be Aurane's.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

Eh, I didn't say they were Aurane Waters' fleet.  I just meant that between those three groups of ships she's got all she needs.  I forgot an "and" in there.

[Jughead of the Round]

Quote

So where does this chapter fit on the timeline of AFfC chapters?

Davos II takes place before Cersei IV in AFFC since at the small council session, Cersei receives word that Manderly has thrown Davos in a cell.

[Crazydog7]

Man if even Davos is losing faith I guess Stannis is really screwed.

[DaeneryStormBorn]

Jurble, on 14 November 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

The mystery of Young Griff deepens.  

Like, clearly Young Griff is gonna be an Aegon, but now the question is, is GRRM making it obvious so we fall for it, when in truth he's a fake, or is he making it obvious to make us think that Young Griff is a fake, when in fact he's real!?

I have been thinking about Aegon a lot, i would like to think that Aegon is indeed alive in the name of Young Griff.  Rhaegar believed that his son would be the PTWP so i believed that he did pull a plan before going off to war to safeguard Aegon.  He Believes too much in prophecy to let his son be killed.

[Lord Varys]

If Varys believed in this whole prophecy, and if this was the reason why he apparently is still working for the Targaryens after 15 years, it would make no sense at all if he let the promised prince die. Varys once mentioned Rhaenys - but not Aegon - as example for a child suffering senselessly, and I'd not be surprised if he was still pissed off about himself for not foreseeing that whoever Tywin had charged with killing Aerys' male heir would also kill the girl.

[The Mastiff]

Ran, on 15 November 2010 - 10:43 AM, said:

It seems to me that if this story is true (and it's not clear that it is; it could be a confabulation on Axell's part as part of a dig at Davos, which was certainly the intent behind telling the story), that Aerys I seems like the likeliest of the Targaryen kings to carry on like this. Having no sons is, rather than a con, actually a pro -- it'd give him reason to "make up" a son by treating his pet monkey this way. And I expect he was rather mad, in his way.

Alternatively, it wasn't actually a king, but a Targaryen prince I suppose... Then Rhaegal sounds as likely.

BTW, for anyone else who heard the report, did the Targaryen king's name get mentioned, and can anyone else confirm it's the Snow Sept rather than the Snowy Sept?

As the original poster; I felt like the story about the Targaryen King was a real story, though definately told in a manner to be a dig at Davos from Axell.  >95% sure.

Unsure if the mood of the monkey King was supposed to be hinted at was mad, eccentric, demeaning, comedic or otherwise.

I am positive that the King's name was never mentioned specifically.  100% sure.

I still feel like I recall it being called the Snow Sept. >80% sure.

Edited by The Mastiff, 09 January 2011 - 08:24 PM.

[Loras]

I have a quick question about this chapter, someone previously mentioned that GRRM uses exposition to catch the reader up on what the character has been up to until that point.  It tends to be the first chapter of each book is a recap as to what happened previously, a good example of this is the first TYRION chapter.

My question is WHY does GRRM feel the need to recap the events of DAVOS I at the beginning of this chapter?  He mentions being abandoned by Sallador on Sisterton.  This type of exposition isn't very common throughout the series.  It might be due to where the chapter is placed in the book.  Perhaps there are a lot of chapters between DAVOS I & II.  I don't know though, something gives me the impression from this reading that this is an opening chapter....

[Xanrn]

Varys, the guy who hates magic, believes in prophecy...

What Varys and Illryios game is in plainly laid out in one of the Tyrion spoiler chapters where Illryio pretty much tells him. Its not about Prophecy is about Money and Power and for Varys being able to pull it off. Varys is a fat, bald, ballless Locke Lamora.

Only one Stark can pull off a comeback anytime soon and thats Jon and is too busy thinking with his honour(no I don't mean dick) and not his brain.

[Axon]

Xanrn, on 11 January 2011 - 11:54 PM, said:

Varys, the guy who hates magic, believes in prophecy...

What Varys and Illryios game is in plainly laid out in one of the Tyrion spoiler chapters where Illryio pretty much tells him. Its not about Prophecy is about Money and Power and for Varys being able to pull it off. Varys is a fat, bald, ballless Locke Lamora.

Only one Stark can pull off a comeback anytime soon and thats Jon and is too busy thinking with his honour(no I don't mean dick) and not his brain.

Very true.  If I were Jon Snow, I would have become Jon Stark, took back my seat, let Stannis do whatever except break down the Wall, march south with him, own with a stone dragon, (possibly pulling a Roose Bolton if I had to), take a dornish hottie as my bride, and then retire in the north.  Maybe let Bran do the work, or Rickon, if he becomes less annoying.  

Of course, this would probably spell doom for Westeros, since JS obviously has something to do with defeating the Others.

Edited by Axon, 12 January 2011 - 01:31 PM.

[Xanrn]

Jon can do a better job of fixing the North than Stannis, probably quicker and less blood spilled. Stannis would stay on the wall, so they wouldn't lack for a good commander.

Jon on the wall is one man.

Jon in Winterfell is one man with an army he can use to support the Wall.

He is can do more for the Wall in Winterfell than he can on the Wall.

He is following in Eddards footsteps from the first book, letting his honour get in the way of the Greater Good.

Taking Stannis first offer probably would have been a bad idea, but he still could have negoiated.

Hopefully he takes the Northern Lords offer when they show up or the news of "Arya" marrying Ramsay is the straw that breaks the camels back.