140 replies to this topic

[Loras]

Thank you Werthead, for another fantastic thread and resource!

[gumby]

well done, this has answered some questions of mine.

[Vic Sage]

Great thread Wert! interesting background.

[A Redeemed Hound]

Much appreciated.  I pray the announcement is made by the end of this month for ADWD.  But I doubt it as long as the Jets keep winning.  Go Steelers!!!

[Patrick Tully]

Since you mentioned previous occurrences, maybe you need to add in a bit of the info below. I know we are aware of it, but it will be new information for others.

A Feast for Crows debuted at #1 on NYT bestseller list

Dunk and Egg novellas continued:
The Sworn Sword in Legends II anthology (2003)
The Mystery Knight in Warriors anthology (2010)

later excerpted novellas: (are they worth mentioning?)
Path of the Dragon (some Dany chapters from ASoS)
Arms of the Kraken (some Iron Islands chapters from AFfC)

[Lordwalker]

Excellant summation of events!  Thank you.

[MountainThatRides]

Excellent summary, thanks a lot for taking the time to put this together. Lots of interesting tidbits in there that are probably new to most people, even to the more avid readers.

I noticed one small error, though, and I only point it out to be helpful, not to nitpick.

Werthead, on 13 January 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

In 1991, whilst work on Avalon was proceeding satisfactorily, Martin was suddenly struck by the image of a man being beheaded whilst a young boy watched.

In several interviews and podcasts, Mr. Martin has related the story that the series was inspired by a scene in which children come across the body of a wolf in the snow, with a broken antler tine in its throat.

Quote

Well, actually, I started back in 1991 during a lull while I was still working in Hollywood and I was working on another book, a science fiction book I had always wanted to write. So I was working on that book when suddenly the first chapter of A Games of Thrones, not the prologue but the first chapter, came to me. The scene of the dire wolves in the summer snow. I didn't know where it came from or where it needed to go, but from there the book seemed to write itself. From there I knew what the second step was and the third and so one. Eventually, I stopped to draw some maps and work out some background material.

That's from The SF Site: A Conversation with George R. R. Martin, though I've certainly heard him tell the story that way in other interviews as well.

[Ran]

In the 1996 Omni magazine interview, George states:

Quote

But then one day the opening chapter of A GAME OF THRONES came to me, so vividly I =had= to write it.  Not the prologue, mind you, but the first chapters proper, where Bran sees the man beheaded and finds the direwolves in the snow.

That's a bit closer to the writing date than the SF Site interview. I think it sounds like George saw both of these key images: Bran watching the execution, and the discovery of the pups, and was compelled to write the chapter that contained them both.

Edited by Ran, 27 January 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[MountainThatRides]

Ran, on 27 January 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

That's a bit closer to the writing date than the SF Site interview. I think it sounds like George saw both of these key images: Bran watching the execution, and the discovery of the pups, and was compelled to write the chapter that contained them both.

Doubtless you're correct, and either way, the chapter from which the series was conceived is more important as a whole than any one specific scene.

[nan1973]

Thanks so much.  This was a very interesting read.  I remember reading that JK Rowling had some real trouble finishing Goblet of Fire (she has stated that at one point she thought she couldn't do it), but that it kind of all came together in the last couple of books.  I think the middle books in these epic series must be the most difficult to write because the author has built this immense story and has to start bringing it all together.  I really hope that George has an easier time with his last books.

[Nearly Headless Ned]

When's Avalon coming out George?! Been waiting ages a whilst you've been meandering on this little side project!

[Melisande]

Was ADWD going to be split like ASOS?

[Werthead]

I think GRRM has said that Avalon doesn't really have his favour any more. After taking the time off to do the Doorways project he came back to find A Song of Ice and Fire really working well and sparking ideas whilst Avalon had gone cold. It'd be interesting to see the material he'd completed for it. The same thing happened after The Armageddon Rag bombed, which discouraged him from completing Black and White and Red All Over (title probably incorrect) but he did publish the completed material in a later short story collection.

Quote

Was ADWD going to be split like ASOS?

Not sure what you mean here. ASoS wasn't split, aside from the UK paperback and a few other foreign editions.

[Patrick Tully]

Lady Lyanna of Love, on 14 March 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

Was ADWD going to be split like ASOS?

That is probably going to depend on your publisher in Croatia. The US and UK hardcovers will be single volume editions.

If it is the same publisher and they split ASoS, I would think it is likely they AdwD. It will be an equal sized or a marginally longer book.

[dixiehellcat]

Thanks for sharing this! I'm sad to hear Armageddon Rag was considered a bomb though--until I started ASoIaF, it was the only GRRM I'd read, long long ago, and I LOVED it.

[Cold Pie]

Great read, and thanks for the back story.

I remember reading somewhere that GRRM had moved some chapters over from ADWD to TWoW, does anyone know how many pages/chapters that was, exactly?

[Harry the Heir]

Cold Pie, on 27 April 2011 - 03:10 AM, said:

I remember reading somewhere that GRRM had moved some chapters over from ADWD to TWoW, does anyone know how many pages/chapters that was, exactly?

At one point last year, GRRM said that there were 100 manuscript pages for TWOW from various chapters. But his editor recently said that they had done some trimming on ADWD to cut out ~50 manuscript pages or so, in order to bring ADWD in line with ASOS length-wise, and some of that may have ended up with TWOW as well.

[Anomandaris86]

Werthead, on 13 January 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

Martin also found that whilst 'filling in the gap' worked well for some characters, such as Brienne, Cersei, Jaime, Sansa and Arya, it did not work out so well for others, such as Tyrion, Daenerys and Jon, who seemed to be ready to move into their next storylines (i.e. the ones planned for A Dance with Dragons) immediately.

Quote

Rather than split A Feast for Crows in two, Martin decided that the next book in the series would remain entitled A Dance with Dragons, suggesting that he hoped to combine the originally-planned events for that novel with the 'flipside' of events in A Feast for Crows.

Now this is interesting. I'd always assumed that both Feast and this upcoming book were planned solely as the "five-year-gap-filler," even if it was no longer five years. Indeed I was wondering questions like "Why is he using the title A Dance of Dragons for a book that is just the second half of A Feast for Crows and not the original Dance of Dragons? And why is he saying it will be seven books when it will clearly be eight?" This explanation now sheds some light. I was hoping GRRM wouldn't be so clueless...

Still, wasn't the original plan for A Dance of Dragons to involve Dany's invasion of Westeros and the chaos that would ensue from that? Or am I not remembering that correctly? If that is case, then he hasn't written all of what he originally planned for A Dance of Dragons. So he has...what, two and a half books left?

[Dragonfish]

Anomandaris86, on 09 May 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:

Still, wasn't the original plan for A Dance of Dragons to involve Dany's invasion of Westeros and the chaos that would ensue from that? Or am I not remembering that correctly? If that is case, then he hasn't written all of what he originally planned for A Dance of Dragons. So he has...what, two and a half books left?

IIRC, Martin has said that the "Dance with Dragons" the title refers to is not necessarily Dany's invasion of Westeros.

[Anomandaris86]

Yeah I know...but the invasion was originally supposed to be in that book wasn't it?