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Big Hollywood on Fantasy


Ran

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My general response to these social conservative types is that they need to drink a tall glass of cement and harden the fuck up.

I guess there are some out there who see the world in black and white and need their reading to reflect that. Fortunately, most of the rest of us are more sensible, discerning and intelligent.

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Reading his comments, he seems to despise WoT, even though (as you say) it otherwise seems to fit what he wants at least to some degree. He's very strange. He promises to continue it, so I suppose we'll get a list of current authors he feels are appropriately respectful of traditional values.

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Reading his comments, he seems to despise WoT, even though (as you say) it otherwise seems to fit what he wants at least to some degree. He's very strange. He promises to continue it, so I suppose we'll get a list of current authors he feel are appropriately respectful of traditional values.

What are the chances Left Behind is on that list?

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Really? You can't think of one?

Wheel of Time certainly has pitch black ultimate evil, but the "good guys" are a rather desperate, contentious and not always cooperative or likable bunch.

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Shannara, Sword of Truth, Eddings. That's just off the top of my head. You can probably pull out scads of shit generic fantasy that's way more black and white.

Hell, I'd even say Tolkien is more black and white, though not by a ton and he puts his own particular spin on the whole thing to make it feel not generic.

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It's not perfect black/whie, certainly, but what series do you think is more black/white?

Also, I really hope the author of that article reads Bakker.

Harry Potter?

Also I was just thinking the same thing about Bakker.

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almost all of them college-educated liberals

That one phrase both explains and completely invalidates Grin's whole line of argument.

College education is evil and to be avoided at all costs because it breeds independant thought, and *gasp* belief in heresies like evolution and "science".

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One wonders if he's read The Hobbit recently? You know, the book in which the setup for the Battle of the Five Armies has a bunch of good people reverting to type over a pile of shiny things and this close to killing each other?

nononono. this bit is perfectly black and white--

it demonstrates that the role of evil races is to appear like deus ex machina so that the good races might commit genocide on the evil races instead of upon each other.

the evil races are therefore the heroes of the story in offering themselves up on the sacrificial altar of the motiveless malignancy of the good races, so that the good races might live in harmony thereafter.

it really reinforces traditional values.

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That one phrase both explains and completely invalidates Grin's whole line of argument.

College education is evil and to be avoided at all costs because it breeds independant thought, and *gasp* belief in heresies like evolution and "science".

"College-educated" is just another term for "communist."

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Think of a Lord of the Rings where, after stringing you along for thousands of pages, all of the hobbits end up dying of cancer contracted by their proximity to the Ring, Aragorn is revealed to be a buffoonish puppet-king of no honor and false might, and Gandalf no sooner celebrates the defeat of Sauron than he executes a long-held plot to become the new Dark Lord of Middle-earth, and you have some idea of what to expect should you descend into Abercrombie’s jaded literary sewer.

Holy crap, I cannot wait to read First Law trilogy!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Holy crap, I cannot wait to read First Law trilogy!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You wont be sorry, i scream from Abercrombie like a 12 year old at a Justin Beiber concert. Is it dark? Yes, but i also find it to be some of the funniest writing out there as well.

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Realism isn't a primary concern in great literature, anymore than it is in great movies like The Wizard of Oz, It's A Wonderful Life, or the best of the Leone spaghetti westerns. What matters is the qualities inherent in the authorial (or, in the case of movies, directorial) voice. Or to use another relevant example: Frank Frazetta's Conan paintings aren't realistic, either, but is that any reason to call him shallow or juvenile or somehow less compelling than an artist who paints realistic still-life stuff? Of course not -- Frazetta's work is friggin' magnificent, as good as art gets, achieving in the pictorial realm exactly what Howard accomplished in the literary realm.

The guy is ignorant but he has one point that I agree with fantasy (or literature)doesn't have to be realistic to be good. I see a lot of people criticise characters or books on this website when they don't conform to their modern fantasy cliches of non black and white characters, realism and subversion. People will call one character a cliche or a Mary Sue and think that that is a valid criticism on its own, when it's not. Fantasy is fantasy. Mixing realism and fantasy works but it's not necessary. Take for example, German Expressionism, which used over the top lighting with sharp contrast between black and white colors in order to convey not only mood but themes as well. Over the top characters can be used just as aptly.

Of course hating a book just because it subverts a genre is ignorant as well.

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