72 replies to this topic

[madking]

Rahvin20, on 18 February 2011 - 11:20 PM, said:

I actually made a list as I did a read through a few years back. I had only made it as far as A Storm of Swords though. You can really see the escalation as the series goes on. For comparison, the first 3 books of the Wheel of Time had a combined 24 named deaths.

A Game of Thrones - 54 deaths

Ser Waymar Royce
Will
Gared
Jon Arryn
Lady
Mycah
Ser Hugh
Jyck
Kurleket
Mohor
Morrec
Chiggen
Lharys
Wyl
Heward
Jory Cassel
Wallen
Hali
Stiv
Tregar
Ser Vardis Egen
Viserys Targaryen
Robert Baratheon
Fat Tom
Varly
Cayn
Hullen
Desmond
Othor
Jafer Flowers
Lord Vance
Ser Raymun Darry
Masha Heddle
Ser Jaremy Rykker
Khal Ogo
Khal Fogo
Ulf son of Umar
Conn son of Coratt
Torrhen Karstark
Eddard Karstark
Daryn Hornwood
Quaro
Qotho
Haggo
Cohollo
Eddard Stark
Septa Mordane
Veyon Poole
Rhaego
Eroeh
Khal Drogo
Andros Brax
Mirri Maz Duur


A Clash of Kings - 72 deaths

Maester Cressen
Praed
Beric Dondarrion
Ser Burton Crakehall
Hendry Bracken
Lyman Darry
Allar Deem
Ser Hubard Rambton
Doreah
Woth
Dobber
Qyle
Gerren
Koss
Yoren
Kurz
Lommy Greenhands
All-for-Joffrey
Medger Cerwyn
Chiswyck
Stafford Lannister
Rupert Brax
Roland Crakehall
Antario Jast
Lymond Vikary
Renly Baratheon
Stevron Frey
Reek
Donella Hornwood
Emmon Cuy
Robar Royce
Todric
Benfred Tallhart
Weese
Poul Pemford
Myles
Aron Santagar
High Septon
Ser Preston Greenfield
Alfyn Crowkiller
Ser Cortnay Penrose
Leo Lefford
Alebelly
Mikken
Ser Amory Lorch
Septon Chayle
Drennan
Squint
Gelmarr the Grim
Aggar
Gynir Rednose
Farlen
Ser Mandon Moore
Ser Guyard Morrigen
Maester Tothmure
Lucan
Goodwife Harra
Bryce Caron
Ser Bryan Fossoway
Ser Edwyd Fossoway
Ser Rodrik Cassel
Leobald Tallhart
Cley Cerwyn
Red Rolfe
Kenned
Black Lorren
Ulf
Squire Dalbridge
Ebben
Qhorin Halfhand
Poxy Tym
Maester Luwin


A Storm of Swords - 97 deaths

Iggo
Ser Jacelyn Bywater
Guncer Sunglass
Dale Seaworth
Allard Seaworth
Matthos Seaworth
Maric Seaworth
Jate Blackberry
Lord Chyttering
Hookface Will
Hal the Hog
Gladden Wylde
Lothar Mallery
Maslyn
Ser Ottyn Wythers
Thoren Smallwood
Small Paul
Ser Helman Tallhart
Tion Frey
Willem Lannister
Delp
Elwood
Rickard Karstark
Cleos Frey
Ser Imry Florent
Monford Velaryon
Kraznys Mo Nakloz
Grazdan Mo Ullhor
Jarl
Symon Silvertongue
Brown Bernarr
Hake
Bannen
Craster
Garth of Oldtown
Rolley of Sisterton
Ser Byam Flint
Jeor Mormont
Alyn
Hoster Tully
Kyle
Septon Utt
Bodger
Sallor the Bald
Prendahl Na Ghezn
Balon Greyjoy
Lord Botley
Lark the Sisterman
Softfoot
Ryles
Chett
Robin Flint
Ser Wendel Manderly
Lucas Blackwood
Donnel Locke
Owen Norrey
Dacey Mormont
Smalljon Umber
Robb Stark
Aegon Frey
Catelyn Stark
Grey Wind
Deaf Dick Follard
Rast
Young Henly
Old Henly
Easy
Dornish Dilly
Styr
Quort
Stone Thumbs
Ygritte
Oznak Zo Pahl
Mero
Joffrey Baratheon
Ser Dontos Hollard
Vargo Hoat
Donal Noye
Mag the Mighty
Red Alyn of the Rosewood
Ser Endrew Tarth
Ser Aladale Wynch
Oberyn Martell
Harma Dogshead
Polliver
The Tickler
Watt of Long Lake
Dalla
Shae
Tywin Lannister
Eon Hunter
Lysa Arryn
Petyr Frey
Ser Garse Goodbrook
Ser Tytos Frey
Merrett Frey

for Game of Thrones you forgot Syrio Forrel.      (Awaits the debate)

[Orion]

IMHO Syrio is not there bc there is not a definite prove that he actually died. He could have, but we don't know. The same can be said of the Cleganes.

[Horza]

Allar Deem's there and no one saw him die.

[Buckwheat]

Syrio Forel died. It is known.

[Whatever]

Horza, on 20 April 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Allar Deem's there and no one saw him die.

but it's very likely

[AutomatedTeller]

You know - for a series which is famed to be "everybody dies and no one is safe"....

not all that many major characters die.

Ned, Robb, Robert, Tywin, Lyssa, Renly, Lord Mormont, Joffrey and Gregor Clegane are, I think, the only main ones that are dead and confirmed dead - well, a bunch of old guys.  

And I'm kind of pushing it with Tywin, Renly and Robert being major characters.  

I mean - Bran and Rickon are still alive - one of them is 4 and the other is a cripple.  Catelyn is alive (ish), and she actually died!!

[Huan]

AutomatedTeller, on 24 April 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

You know - for a series which is famed to be "everybody dies and no one is safe"....

not all that many major characters die.

Ned, Robb, Robert, Tywin, Lyssa, Renly, Lord Mormont, Joffrey and Gregor Clegane are, I think, the only main ones that are dead and confirmed dead - well, a bunch of old guys.  

And I'm kind of pushing it with Tywin, Renly and Robert being major characters.  

I mean - Bran and Rickon are still alive - one of them is 4 and the other is a cripple.  Catelyn is alive (ish), and she actually died!!

And I think that of these characters, only Renly died in ACoK; aside from Ned and Robert, everyone else died in ASoS.

[Kaitscralt]

Martin's comments regarding Syrio seem to concrete that he is in fact dead.

[viniS]

Rahvin20, on 18 February 2011 - 11:20 PM, said:

I actually made a list as I did a read through a few years back. I had only made it as far as A Storm of Swords though. You can really see the escalation as the series goes on. For comparison, the first 3 books of the Wheel of Time had a combined 24 named deaths.

A Game of Thrones - 54 deaths

Ser Waymar Royce
Will
Gared
Jon Arryn
Lady
Mycah
Ser Hugh
Jyck
Kurleket
Mohor
Morrec
Chiggen
Lharys
Wyl
Heward
Jory Cassel
Wallen
Hali
Stiv
Tregar
Ser Vardis Egen
Viserys Targaryen
Robert Baratheon
Fat Tom
Varly
Cayn
Hullen
Desmond
Othor
Jafer Flowers
Lord Vance
Ser Raymun Darry
Masha Heddle
Ser Jaremy Rykker
Khal Ogo
Khal Fogo
Ulf son of Umar
Conn son of Coratt
Torrhen Karstark
Eddard Karstark
Daryn Hornwood
Quaro
Qotho
Haggo
Cohollo
Eddard Stark
Septa Mordane
Veyon Poole
Rhaego
Eroeh
Khal Drogo
Andros Brax
Mirri Maz Duur


A Clash of Kings - 72 deaths

Maester Cressen
Praed
Beric Dondarrion
Ser Burton Crakehall
Hendry Bracken
Lyman Darry
Allar Deem
Ser Hubard Rambton
Doreah
Woth
Dobber
Qyle
Gerren
Koss
Yoren
Kurz
Lommy Greenhands
All-for-Joffrey
Medger Cerwyn
Chiswyck
Stafford Lannister
Rupert Brax
Roland Crakehall
Antario Jast
Lymond Vikary
Renly Baratheon
Stevron Frey
Reek
Donella Hornwood
Emmon Cuy
Robar Royce
Todric
Benfred Tallhart
Weese
Poul Pemford
Myles
Aron Santagar
High Septon
Ser Preston Greenfield
Alfyn Crowkiller
Ser Cortnay Penrose
Leo Lefford
Alebelly
Mikken
Ser Amory Lorch
Septon Chayle
Drennan
Squint
Gelmarr the Grim
Aggar
Gynir Rednose
Farlen
Ser Mandon Moore
Ser Guyard Morrigen
Maester Tothmure
Lucan
Goodwife Harra
Bryce Caron
Ser Bryan Fossoway
Ser Edwyd Fossoway
Ser Rodrik Cassel
Leobald Tallhart
Cley Cerwyn
Red Rolfe
Kenned
Black Lorren
Ulf
Squire Dalbridge
Ebben
Qhorin Halfhand
Poxy Tym
Maester Luwin


A Storm of Swords - 97 deaths

Iggo
Ser Jacelyn Bywater
Guncer Sunglass
Dale Seaworth
Allard Seaworth
Matthos Seaworth
Maric Seaworth
Jate Blackberry
Lord Chyttering
Hookface Will
Hal the Hog
Gladden Wylde
Lothar Mallery
Maslyn
Ser Ottyn Wythers
Thoren Smallwood
Small Paul
Ser Helman Tallhart
Tion Frey
Willem Lannister
Delp
Elwood
Rickard Karstark
Cleos Frey
Ser Imry Florent
Monford Velaryon
Kraznys Mo Nakloz
Grazdan Mo Ullhor
Jarl
Symon Silvertongue
Brown Bernarr
Hake
Bannen
Craster
Garth of Oldtown
Rolley of Sisterton
Ser Byam Flint
Jeor Mormont
Alyn
Hoster Tully
Kyle
Septon Utt
Bodger
Sallor the Bald
Prendahl Na Ghezn
Balon Greyjoy
Lord Botley
Lark the Sisterman
Softfoot
Ryles
Chett
Robin Flint
Ser Wendel Manderly
Lucas Blackwood
Donnel Locke
Owen Norrey
Dacey Mormont
Smalljon Umber
Robb Stark
Aegon Frey
Catelyn Stark
Grey Wind
Deaf Dick Follard
Rast
Young Henly
Old Henly
Easy
Dornish Dilly
Styr
Quort
Stone Thumbs
Ygritte
Oznak Zo Pahl
Mero
Joffrey Baratheon
Ser Dontos Hollard
Vargo Hoat
Donal Noye
Mag the Mighty
Red Alyn of the Rosewood
Ser Endrew Tarth
Ser Aladale Wynch
Oberyn Martell
Harma Dogshead
Polliver
The Tickler
Watt of Long Lake
Dalla
Shae
Tywin Lannister
Eon Hunter
Lysa Arryn
Petyr Frey
Ser Garse Goodbrook
Ser Tytos Frey
Merrett Frey

That... is appalling... How... how did you do this?

[notozobaczymy]

Roland Crakehall, Lymond Vikary and Antario Jast are still alive. The rumors of their death were untrue, all of them were probably captured (all are mentioned as alive in ADwD appendix).

Benfrey Frey died after Red Wedding.

Edited by notozobaczymy, 16 January 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Arkash]

Yeah, it is said that the season 2 of the show may kill more characters than in the book... but who ?

[Horza]

ADwD Butcher's Bill:

Thistle, a spearwife - slain and Wighted by Others.
Varamyr*, greatest of the Skinchangers - throttled + wounds recieved at Battle of Castle Black.
Stalwart Shield, Unsullied - Slain by the Sons of the Harpy.
Hazzea, shepherd's daughter - Drogon was hungry.
Janos Slynt, revolting toady, Lannister lickspittle - Executed by order of John Snow, Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.
Rattleshirt, the Lord of Bones - burnt and feathered while in the guise of Mance Rayder.
Ralf Kenning, castellan at Moat Cailin - put out of his misery by Theon Greyjoy.
Dagon Codd, stubborn fellow - catches an axe in the face courtesy of...
Adrack Humble, short half an arm - took Ramsay Bolton at his word.
Rolfe the Dwarf, one of Asha's men - shortened by a head at Deepwood Motte.
Rhaegar Frey, envoy to White Harbour - served at Ramsay's wedding.
Ser Jared Frey, ditto - ditto.
Symond Frey, yadda yadda.
Black Jack Bulwer, ranger - didn't fear the Weeper.
Hairy Hal, ranger - " "
Garth Greyfeather, ranger - " "
Lord Harwood Fell, sworn to Stannis - hypothermia on the way to Stannis' Battle of Moscow re-enactment.
Yellow Dick, Bolton man - killed by the washerwomen.
Little Walder, bully - killed by person(s) unknown.
Luton, Bolton man - wasn't quiet enough about his disembowelment for Ramsay.
Holly, "washerwoman" -meets some crossbow bolts on the Walls of Winterfell.
Frenya*, "washerwoman" - is probably not up to beating six guards...
Barsena, pit figher - boared to death.
Yurkhaz mo Yunzak, top banana of Yunkai'i - trampled by his own slaves.
Nurse, slavemaster - rides the Pale Mare.
Yezzan Zo Qaggaz, big banana of the Yunkai'i - ditto.
Cromm, Asha's man - freezes to death on the way to Stannis' Battle of Moscow re-enactment.
Groleo, admiral without a fleet - decapitated as a message to Dany.
Khrazz, pit fighter, bodyguard, ignorant of the utility of armour - gaps in knowledge amended by Barristan.
Maester Kerwin, Crows Eye's spy - boarding pass cancelled mid-voyage by Victarion.
Ser Patrek of King's Mountain, blatant piece of fanservice - Wun Wun's ragdoll.
Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch* - failed to adequately monitor staff morale.
Quentyn Martell, apprentice veterinarian - crisped while attempting an unauthorised release in the lizard pen.
Maester Pycelle, grumpy old hack - prop in Varys' pantomime act.
Kevan Lannister, the dependable Lannister - audience for same.


*provisional deaths

Roughly by order of death, I compiled from two separate lists so it's not chronological in the middle, but I don't care. Only named characters who died in the course of the books, so Ramsay's girls and Quent's other companions don't make it, though I've let Hazzea in because it was recent. I've almost certainly missed a few, please feel free to point them out.

Surprisingly low death toll for named characters, 35 not that much above AFFC's low. Martin's smite button tends to fall on the unnamed extras, giving much bloodier tale to the reader than this list bears out.

Edited by Horza, 21 January 2012 - 02:01 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Quote

Quentyn Martell, apprentice veterinarian

I lol'd.

[Arkash]

Quote

Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch* - failed to adequately monitor staff morale.
Quentyn Martell, apprentice veterinarian - crisped while attempting an unauthorised release in the lizard pen.

Those two made my day! ^^


We still miss the Feast list here !

Edited by Arkash, 21 January 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[Fraggle]

AutomatedTeller, on 24 April 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

You know - for a series which is famed to be "everybody dies and no one is safe"....

not all that many major characters die.

Ned, Robb, Robert, Tywin, Lyssa, Renly, Lord Mormont, Joffrey and Gregor Clegane are, I think, the only main ones that are dead and confirmed dead - well, a bunch of old guys.  

And I'm kind of pushing it with Tywin, Renly and Robert being major characters.  

I mean - Bran and Rickon are still alive - one of them is 4 and the other is a cripple.  Catelyn is alive (ish), and she actually died!!

This. I really don't know how Martin has managed to get a reputation for killing off characters willy-nilly. I would argue that there have been maybe six deaths that have really resonated either politically or emotionally - Ned, Robb, Robert, Catelyn, Tywin, Renly. And of those, I know plenty of people who don't care about Robert (either because they saw it coming as a necessary plot device or because they just don't like him), Catelyn (I include myself here, I spent three books praying for her to die and when she finally did she didn't have the decency to stay that way), Renly (annoying, always likely to get it) or Tywin (politically significant but not emotionally really, unless you count pleasure at seeing Tyrion get some of his own back).

Beyond that you are down to 1) cartoon villains like Viserys, Joffrey and Gregor who were more or less doomed from the start; 2) Cool characters like Qhorin, the Red Viper, or Syrio who are in the story for only a few brief chapters and would be expendable in any book, anywhere, ever; and 3) characters like Quentyn, Kevan and Pycelle, who are largely insignificant until just before their deaths and for whom we have little or no emotional investment. I will grant you that there are a few characters, mostly minor characters from the North (Jeor Mormont, Jory and Rodrik Cassel, Maester Luwin) whose deaths were pretty sad, but ultimately they are just that - minor. We don't know very much about the Cassels or Luwin other than that they're loyal to the Starks, and Mormont and Aemon were old when introduced and there was always a sense that their deaths were imminent. Drogo is maybe the one exception but for me his death was so poorly handled it was hard to care.

Beyond that are endless hordes of named characters who could quite easily have been unnamed for all the impact they had on the story.

So we have a 'serious' death count of maybe 5 characters (I don't know anyone who would include all six, I make it 4 myself, missing out Cat and Renly). That is more or less comparable to the number of 'fake' major deaths we have had - Brienne, Davos, Bran, etc. Compare that to LOTR (I pick this because most people have read it, and I often see people describing ASOIAF as if it's a grown up LOTR with more sex and death) - Boromir, Theoden, Denethor die in the main narrative, along with Balin dying offscreen. You could also add Smeagol, Grima and even Saruman, who are pretty much as sympathetic as Tywin. One fake death, Gandalf, device never used again. Not much difference, especially considering the far smaller cast of named characters in LOTR (I don't dispute that ASOIAF has more sex though).

Basically, IMHO, the claims that Martin is an author happy to kill off his characters don't hold up to scrutiny. The final proof of this is that more or less no one believes Jon Snow is dead.

[protar]

Yeah Martin has definitelly been letting up on main character deaths recently but I expect a lot to die by the end of TWOW. Namely I think the following characters will die (in no particular order.):

.Davos
.Rickon
.Osha
.Jojen (if he's not dead already)
. Bloodraven
. Asha
. Roose Bolton
. Ramsay Snow
. Bowen Marsh
. Little Finger
.Tommen
. Myrcella
. Meryn Trant
. Boros Blount
. Daario Naharis (yay!)
. Penny
. Bonnifer Hasty
.Jon Connington
.Aeron Greyjoy
.Euron Greyjoy
.Victarion Greyjoy
.Brienne

And probably a lot more.

[Ice Turtle]

I wonder how long is the fake death list at this point: Arya, Davos, Bran, Rickon, Mance, Connington, Ramsay, Theon once, probably Stannis, Jaime, Ashara, Aegon, Sandor ....and the list of dead but still walking is groving longer too

[_watcher_on_the_wall_]

surely Beric Dondarrion should be on the list more than once!

[fish321]

I dont know if this has been asked anywhere but have we ever had a character die from inside their POV? Yes Catelyn did but then she isnt really dead, Asha is getting hit in the head with an axe when she was thought to die but she is alive, Theon is thought to have dies but he didnt. Im trying to find any POV, other than a prologue epilogue, where the person dies and stays dead.

[Horza]

Quentyn doesn't quite fit as he dies later, Jon won't stay dead for long, so I guess not.