Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)

[Foreverlad]

Lothlorian,

Great first post, welcome aboard.

When I read what Maedre meant, I too first thought it had to do with Kvothe's bandit excursion, but as the book progressed, I started thinking more and more that Kvothe will either destroy Cthaeh, or defy destiny, however you want to define it. The Cthaeh bit is given too much attention from Bast to not play an integral role in the story, be it now or in the follow-up trilogy that takes place in the present. That the guardians (were they Amyr? I can't remember) surrounding Cthaeh never appeared or killed Kvothe for his knowledge of the tree seems relevant.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I really like Devi. Thataks a woman who will not take shit off of someone. I was also hoping she and Kvothe would hook up.

[Lothlorian]

"My first mentor called me E'lir because I was clever and knew it. My first real lover called me Dulator because she liked the sound of it. I have been called Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String. I have been called Kvote the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller. I have earned those names. Bought and paid for them." TKotW US Hardcover 53. I don't remember Felurian or any other woman calling Kvothe "Dulator". Was there something I missed, or has this yet to happen? I also don't remember Shadicar coming up yet. E'lir was already explained as given by Ben, Lightfinger could reference his thieving in Tarbean but don't remember reading it specifically, and Six-String was also already explained as coming when he taught himself to play his lute with six strings. Kvothe Kingkiller obviously won't happen until the next book and is pretty obvious in its implication, but I was wondering what any of you thought about the other as-of-yet unrevealed names, Dulator or Shadicar or something else for Lightfinger?

[Foreverlad]

"My first mentor called me E'lir because I was clever and knew it. My first real lover called me Dulator because she liked the sound of it. I have been called Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String. I have been called Kvote the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller. I have earned those names. Bought and paid for them." TKotW US Hardcover 53. I don't remember Felurian or any other woman calling Kvothe "Dulator". Was there something I missed, or has this yet to happen? I also don't remember Shadicar coming up yet. E'lir was already explained as given by Ben, Lightfinger could reference his thieving in Tarbean but don't remember reading it specifically, and Six-String was also already explained as coming when he taught himself to play his lute with six strings. Kvothe Kingkiller obviously won't happen until the next book and is pretty obvious in its implication, but I was wondering what any of you thought about the other as-of-yet unrevealed names, Dulator or Shadicar or something else for Lightfinger?

Dulator, Shadicar and Lightfinger haven't come into play yet. As for Six-String, I believe that was actually associated with his first performance in the Eolian.

With the exception of Felurian, any romantic pairing so far has been little more than a tryst, so my guess is there'll be a real relationship in the next book, though whether it's with Denna or someone else I don't know. Shadicar seems like an ancient sort of name, one he may earn as he continues uncovering details of (or falling in with) the Amyr.

[AverageGuy]

What did Denna do? Did she do some stupid sympathy, like Kvothe did at the start of NotW?

I'm assuming this is addressing my comment about Denna trying to do magic. I wasn't talking about the reason she couldn't breathe -- we know she has asthma -- but the fact that she had the braid in the first place. Anyway, relevant quotes:

97: Denna first shows interest in a written magic.

"Making something like that is called artificing," I said. "Sygaldry is writing or carving the runes that make it work."

Denna's eyes lit up at this. "So it's a magic where you write things down?" she asked, leaning forward in her chair. "How does it work?"

I hesitated. Not only because it was a huge question, but because the University has very specific rules about sharing Arcanum secrets. "It's rather complicated," I said.

Luckily, at that moment there was another knock on the door...

152: Denna asks Kvothe, Simmon, and Wil about magic.

Denna looked embarrassed as she asked, "What if someone told you they knew a type of magic that did more than that? A magic where you sort of wrote things down, and whatever you wrote became ture?"

She looked down nervously, her fingers tracing patterns on the tabletop. "Then, if someone saw the writing, even if they couldn't read it, it would be true for them. They'd think a certain thing, or act a certain way depending on what the writing said." She looked up at us again, her expression a mix of curiosity, hope, and uncertainty...

"Sounds like fairie-tale magic," I said. "Storybook stuff that doesn't exist. I certainly never heard about anything like that at the University."

Denna looked down at the tabletop where her fingers still traced patterns against the wood.

To me, this looks like after hearing about written magic, Denna went off hunting for more information. She then found a story that seems to have conflated sygaldry with the sleeping mind. I don't think it's meant to be real magic (though who knows, it may be), just a distorted version of it pieced together from various sources. Anyway, during the whole conversation, she's writing on the table, essentially testing it out. At the end, Kvothe&co. dismiss it, but even then she never stops tracing patterns.

963: Kvothe discovers the Yllish braid that says, "Lovely."

Denna finally untied the blue string and began to unfurl the braid, her quick fingers smoothing it back into her hair.

"You didn't have to do that," I said. "I liked it better before."

"That's rather the point, isn't it?" She looked up at me, tilting her chin proudly as she shook out her hair. "There. What do you think now?"

Denna believes the Yllish braid really will make people think she's more attractive. Kvothe's compliment is brushed off as an effect of the "magic."

[Slick Mongoose]

To further Bredon = Master Ash, has anyone mentioned that they both have a walking stick? Just to add to the evidence. According to the Cthaeh, Ash uses it to beat Denna.

One of the Chandrian in the Adem story is called Ferule. A ferule is a stick used to punish.

"Ferule chill and dark of eye" doesn't really fit though. Bredon's eyes were brown, which might just fit, but I don't recall anything chill about him.

This theory may be stretching a bit. :P

I'm assuming this is addressing my comment about Denna trying to do magic. I wasn't talking about the reason she couldn't breathe -- we know she has asthma -- but the fact that she had the braid in the first place. Anyway, relevant quotes:

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you (although your theory is good). It was about Denna not being able to breathe. I had forgot she had lung problems (although I don't recall anything hinting that she'd ever actually stopped breathing before?).

[Slick Mongoose]

That the guardians (were they Amyr? I can't remember)

They're the Sithe. (Same guys who hunted down the dancers wearing holly crowns - presumably the Fae version of the Amyr?)

"Who keeps you safe from the Amyr? The Singers? The Sithe?"

Don't think we've heard from the Singers yet.

[To the quick]

Having vehemently stated I wouldn't be picking this up in anything other than paperback (after reading the excerpt from Elodin's class), I was naturally gifted the book by a more than thoughtful friend.

I felt it dragged massively at times and really would have benefited from a sizable trim, but it was a decent enough tale and I'll probably get the third to finish up one way or another. Fortunately there were enough little tidbits to provoke discussion and keep me interested for the future.

To further Bredon = Master Ash, has anyone mentioned that they both have a walking stick? Just to add to the evidence. According to the Cthaeh, Ash uses it to beat Denna.

One of the Chandrian in the Adem story is called Ferule. A ferule is a stick used to punish.

"Ferule chill and dark of eye" doesn't really fit though. Bredon's eyes were brown, which might just fit, but I don't recall anything chill about him.

It seems fairly likely to me that Ferule is Cinder? White hair, cold/cruel personality, and black eyes etc

That obviously opens up a few interesting possibilities in regards to the "who is Denna's patron" question given his proximity to the location at the time. I personally lean towards the Bredon angle though since he seemed to fit in with the more mundane coincidences, but there's some interesting name related links between Ash & Cinder, and Ferule + the beatings Denna received.

I really don't see Bredon = disguised Chandrian, I can't imagine one of them lounging around the court a whole lot, though I would buy the idea of him being related to them somehow (sympathiser to the cause?) with all the pagan rituals and somewhat shady hints.

---

The assorted discussion behind the Kvothe quote about uncovering Denna's patron and tying that to his loss of music and magic is fascinating, a truly excellent spot. I'm glad someone brought up the rings again because I'd completely missed how many he'd plausibly amassed right now heh.

[aariafromarty]

If Deena is attempting to learn some sort of written magic, think this is what is used to lock the Lackless Box? That Yllish scroll basically says "lock" with maybe some way of unlocking. Speak friend and enter type deal.

[griffitt]

Also a first time poster! I'd just like to mention the rhyme recited by the trouper's boy on page 705:

Seven things stand before

The entrance to the Lackless door.

One of them a ring unworn

One a word that is forsworn

One a time that must be right

One a candle without light

One a son who brings the blood

One a door that holds the flood

One a thing tight-held in keeping

Then comes that which comes with sleeping.

Presumably this is a riddle detailing how to open the doors. I'm interpreting the first two lines as "these things must be present in order to enter through the doors".

Kvothe is obviously the son who "brings the blood" if you accept that his mother is Meluan's sister.

The forsworn word is certainly ambiguous..."Chandrian" or "Haliax" or "Amyr"? Maybe one of them needs to be present. Or maybe it's the true name of the doors or something.

A time that must be right could be something to do with the phase of the moon...maybe when the moon is full, or entirely in the realm of men? Tight-held in keeping....Kvothe's lute? :huh:

Thoughts?

[Llaeros]

Just a side note. I've seen a couple of posts regarding Kvothe's amber ring. IIRC, the amber ring, while mentioned in the first couple chapters of the book, seemed to be something that had worked its way into the story that the Maer's mercenaries were telling the townsfolk at the tavern Kvothe met them at after leaving Felurian, as opposed to an actual ring that he possesses.

[Foreverlad]

Also a first time poster! I'd just like to mention the rhyme recited by the trouper's boy on page 705:

Presumably this is a riddle detailing how to open the doors. I'm interpreting the first two lines as "these things must be present in order to enter through the doors".

Kvothe is obviously the son who "brings the blood" if you accept that his mother is Meluan's sister.

The forsworn word is certainly ambiguous..."Chandrian" or "Haliax" or "Amyr"? Maybe one of them needs to be present. Or maybe it's the true name of the doors or something.

A time that must be right could be something to do with the phase of the moon...maybe when the moon is full, or entirely in the realm of men? Tight-held in keeping....Kvothe's lute? :huh:

Thoughts?

"If the Lackless door is actually the door in the archives, we can figure out a few of these things.

"A word forsworn" would be whatever that one word inscribed upon the door. Similar to Veritas, or something? Can't remember

"One a candle without a light" is likely a sympathy lamp or, less likely, sympathy wax.

"One a son who brings the blood" is Kvothe, a relative. Also explains why Kvothe's would-be patron was desperate for a male heir, if he's been following all of this closely.

"One a time that must be right" has got to be the phase of the moon allowing access to the Fae

"One a thing tight-held in keeping" sounds like a name, be it Kvothe's knowing name, his Lackless roots, or Denna's secret.

I'll guess the "ring unworn" is in the Lackless box.

That's all I have right now.

[BlueRose]

Another point to add, Book 3 is likely going to be titled 'the Doors of Stone." Pat told me this, and it's also on his Wiki page. I assumed it was referring to the doors in the Archives, but now it could be the Lackless door or both. Sounds like they'll play a central role in the next book.

Good catch on Melurian being Kvothe's aunt, I am fairly confident they are at least related. In tNotW, Chronicler mentions that he found Kvothe with the help of Skarpi. Skarpi wasn't in WMF at all, so I wonder how he will factor in to book 3. And I do think Kvothe will be truly expelled from the University, which may be related to the doors in some way.

About Denna and the writing magic, I wonder if the Chandrian/Master Ash have a magic that works in that way. Maybe that's why they have Denna writing songs? To change what people know about the story?

[Foreverlad]

Another point to add, Book 3 is likely going to be titled 'the Doors of Stone." Pat told me this, and it's also on his Wiki page. I assumed it was referring to the doors in the Archives, but now it could be the Lackless door or both. Sounds like they'll play a central role in the next book.

Good catch on Melurian being Kvothe's aunt, I am fairly confident they are at least related. In tNotW, Chronicler mentions that he found Kvothe with the help of Skarpi. Skarpi wasn't in WMF at all, so I wonder how he will factor in to book 3. And I do think Kvothe will be truly expelled from the University, which may be related to the doors in some way.

He'll have to be properly expelled, otherwise there's no reason for Kvothe to have found the secret entrance into the Archives through the Underthing. He'll rely on the Underthing to get into the Archives and open the door there, but only after he's been expelled at the behest of Hemme.

.

[jurble]

I don't think Meluan is Kvothe's aunt, that'd be too easy, too cliche. Rather, I'd like to imagine that the reason that Kvothe recognized her, is that Meluan's sister and her Ruh husband showed up at some Ruh gathering at some point, or were in Kvothe's troop.

I imagine something Book 3 is going to knock Kvothe out of his funk. I mean, bro hasn't gotten his revenge yet.

[Cable]

I just finished it and thought it was great. I always need a little time after I've finished it to digest it properly but it was very enjoyable. Rothfuss really keeps those pages turning. My only legitimate complaint is we don't know too much of the outside world and why it's so bad. I don't know how book three is really going to work, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fourth book.

[Blue Steel]

I got a Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now feel with the "bandit tracking" section. It was pretty good.

In the Ademre section, the names that Shehyn gave to Kvothe were different than the names that we already knew. For example, Lanre = Haliax = Alaxel. Is Alaxel his true name then?

[Spoony]

I liked name of the wind much more than this book. Mostly because the first book actually had a good progression of time and events. It went places, and Kvothe's story grew.

Name of the wind also had two really good stories in it. (The stories about Lanre and Tehlu).

I didn't like Wise man's fear.

I liked the first 400 pages - then it seemed as if the book became really boring, and poorly paced.

Not to mention sanctimonious at points.

Gypsies have it rough. Rape and abduction are bad. Etc.

Ick.

Kvothe also seems to emote way too much.

... I think my favorite part of the book was the lore about the Cthea tree.

But Pat really overdid Kvothe's reaction to it. The tree didn't tell him anything too terrible - yet Kvothe spent days, weeks, or possibly months weeping and reacting to it.

-- I also liked the part where Kote/Kvothe got beaten up by the soldier.

At any rate. It felt as if the author could have condensed at least 1/3rd of this book. He could have also had a much more dramatic story arc.

Was there even a climax in this book?

[Spoony]

This series kinda reminds me of Robin Hobb's Assassin books.

I really did not enjoy the initial trilogies - but then we got to the last trilogy which turned out to be a really great read.

(Mostly because the protagonist had changed and aged - and we saw the inclusion of an antagonist who wasn't a non-threatening fop. Regal for Hobb - and Ambrose for Rothfuss).

[beny]

Caudicus says:

“...the oldest parts of the Lackless lands... there is a secret door. A door without a handle or hinges”

The trouper boys says:

“seven things stand before the entrance to the Lackless door....one a son who brings the blood...”

So if Kvothe does have Lackless blood, he could be a necessary part of opening the Lackless door.

And then Cthaeh said:

“...Stick by the Maer and he will lead you to their [Amyr] door...”

This could mean that the Lackless door is the door that leads to the Amyr. I also note that at one stage the working title for the third book was the Doors of Stone. Although I think Felurian also suggest the shaper who stole the moon was behind doors of stone.

Only flimsy evidence that Kvothe’s mother is Lackless but still possible. Name of Laurian rather than Netalia would need to be explained. Cthaeh also names Kvothe’s mother as Laurian, but I guess a name change is plausible.

On names. Elodin’s reaction to changing ones (deep) name suggests it is a very dangerous thing, so if inn keeper Kvothe/Kote has somehow changed or lost his name that would explain a loss of power. I suspect a name change could also trigger a change in Adem name, which could give rise to the sword Folly rather than Caesura.

Also, any thoughts on Auri? Does she have a touch of the Fae? She seemed to know about the Amyr.

Any thoughts? And any idea when book 3 might come out, 4 years again?